How to beat Ganondorf as Bowser

[W1ZARD]

How would I approach a matchup against a Ganondorf as bowser? I played one for like 10 straight games and didn't really even come close. It seems like ganondorf beats bowser in almost every single thing...

- He hits so hard that it doesn't matter about bowsers weight
- His smashes and aerials have as good or better hit boxes
- His down b neutralizes your flame
- He has almost zero end-lag on his moves and an insanely fast roll
- His spike destroys bowsers recovery

I can think of how I'd approach this matchup with plenty of other characters but am at a loss with bowser... any tips would be appreciated.

 

[ccllr]

I don't think Ganondorf has a good aerial play, so you could try approaching him with Fairs and Fire Breathings when in air... that way you will remain covered even when you land

 

[W1ZARD]

I don't think Ganondorf has a good aerial play, so you could try approaching him with Fairs and Fire Breathings when in air... that way you will remain covered even when you land

Down B just goes through fire. I was trying fairs and honestly I just couldn't land any, it's not super hard to just out space fair....

I'm wondering now I should have tried to just eat the down B's with shield and up B out of them. Does down b go through someone who has shield up? It seems like it did sometimes, but not all the time?

 

[2 C H i L L E D]

As someone who uses both of these characters I can say this:

-Bowser is a lot faster on the ground than Ganon. Make sure you’re using this to your advantage.

-I will agree that Ganon has better aerial hitboxes than Bowser spare like his F-air. But Bowser’s aerials have less lag not including his B-air.

It’s essential to edgeguard Ganon in this match-up. Bowser has all the tools to do so. Drop zone F-air is godlike here. Bowser has an extremely good recovery to be as heavy as he is. So even if Ganon can K.O. Bowser earlier than pretty much any other character Bowser can nearly always recover if he isn’t sent into the blast zone.

If you’re finding yourself being spiked too much you’re being too linear with your recovery. Everyone tries to recover low and players that are adapt to this option will punish you extremely hard for it.

Ultimately most heavy MU’s are going to be decided by who gets the most reads. Reads are what let’s you know if the player is good with heavies. Honestly it just sounds like you ran into a player a bit better than you.

 

[W1ZARD]

As someone who uses both of these characters I can say this:

-Bowser is a lot faster on the ground than Ganon. Make sure you’re using this to your advantage.

-I will agree that Ganon has better aerial hitboxes than Bowser spare like his F-air. But Bowser’s aerials have less lag not including his B-air.

It’s essential to edgeguard Ganon in this match-up. Bowser has all the tools to do so. Drop zone F-air is godlike here. Bowser has an extremely good recovery to be as heavy as he is. So even if Ganon can K.O. Bowser earlier than pretty much any other character Bowser can nearly always recover if he isn’t sent into the blast zone.

If you’re finding yourself being spiked too much you’re being too linear with your recovery. Everyone tries to recover low and players that are adapt to this option will punish you extremely hard for it.

Ultimately most heavy MU’s are going to be decided by who gets the most reads. Reads are what let’s you know if the player is good with heavies. Honestly it just sounds like you ran into a player a bit better than you.

Yeah I definitely didn't follow him off stage at all and there were lots of times where I had him off stage. That would have helped a bunch.

Is there any sure-fire way to get up from Gannon's side-b? Is it really just kind of rock-paper-scissors?

 

[2 C H i L L E D]

Yeah I definitely didn't follow him off stage at all and there were lots of times where I had him off stage. That would have helped a bunch.

Is there any sure-fire way to get up from Gannon's side-b? Is it really just kind of rock-paper-scissors?

Honestly just being able to consistently edgeguard a Ganon makes it EXTREMELY difficult for them to win. This alone would make you feel more confident in the Bowser vs Ganon MU. I definitely feel like the MU is in Bowser’s favor.

And no there isn’t if a Ganon could make the right read every time he could literally Side-B you indefinitely. This is never going to happen though.

To combat Ganon’s side-B you have to see how that particular Ganon likes to convert off of it. Usually when I’m on Ganon I d-tilt because people miss techs online. If you were on Bowser and I continued to do this with no mix-ups if you tech rolled everytime I would not be able to convert from my side-b. Some Ganons like to chain side-b’s or opt for downsmash as a follow-up how effective their punishes are going to be depends on your ability to adapt.

These are your options after getting side-b’d:
-Wake-Up attack
-Tech in place
-Tech roll forward
-Tech roll backward

So a Ganon has to read one of these 4 options after side-b. Obviously you have a greater chance of not being read if you aren’t predictable. If you’re playing very predictable a good Ganon will read you like a book. So work on mixing those up.

 

[King9999]

The problem with Bowser's wakeup after side B is that Bowser's tech roll is slow, and Bowser's a big target, so he gets hit by pretty much anything. The only way to escape is if the Ganon player makes the wrong read. Your best bet is to go for a get up attack and hope Ganon doesn't punish.

Bowser's f-air is Ganon's bane. Once you get Ganon off stage, go for a f-air. Bowser's b-air is also amazing, so you should be using that a lot as well. Up B on the ground seems to be a good edgeguarding tool since it lasts a long time. I think it also has invincible frames? I'm not a Bowser main, so I don't know, but I found his up B to be annoying to deal with when I'm trying to get back on stage.

 

[2 C H i L L E D]

The problem with Bowser's wakeup after side B is that Bowser's tech roll is slow, and Bowser's a big target, so he gets hit by pretty much anything. The only way to escape is if the Ganon player makes the wrong read. Your best bet is to go for a get up attack and hope Ganon doesn't punish.

Bowser's f-air is Ganon's bane. Once you get Ganon off stage, go for a f-air. Bowser's b-air is also amazing, so you should be using that a lot as well. Up B on the ground seems to be a good edgeguarding tool since it lasts a long time. I think it also has invincible frames? I'm not a Bowser main, so I don't know, but I found his up B to be annoying to deal with when I'm trying to get back on stage.

B-air is way too punishable to throw out like F-air. You use it but not a lot. If you ever see a Bowser doing that please destroy them for me.

Up-B has invincibility not sure on what frames though. Up-B on the ground is an amazing OOS option. I never use it to edgeguard (not grounded at least) I’ll have to try that out tonight. The only problem with Up-B is, if you miss it you leave yourself open for a hefty punish as the endlag is pretty lengthy. I feel against a character like Ganon, Bowser would be better off trying to 2 frame with d-tilt or of course F-airing rather than use Up-B.