How to beat a good Dedede?

[chronoboy]

Hello Smash Brethren! I've been away from Smash 4 for a while, but a few friends of mine have decided to pick it up again and do some regular get togethers. The best of our bunch is exclusively a DDD player and has been since Brawl. He's very good at mind games and baiting. Very good grabber and stopping approaches. One of his favorite moves is using his multiple jumps to hover above you and feint an attack to make you waste shield or flinch then drop in with a Nair or Dair. He spends a lot more time approaching in the air vs on the ground. And of course, inhaling from the ledge and spitting you under the level .

I was hoping you guys could share some strategies and advice for exploiting his weaknesses so I can finally best him!

Also, if anyone could battle with me to practice that'd be great!

thanks


You can see my mains/subs below.

 

[SSB Excalibur]

Lil' old Dedede's biggest weakness is his size and mobility - He's absolute combo food. Your best bet is to play defensively and bait him out with projectiles (R.O.B. is your best bet there, judging by your mains) until he throws out an unsafe move, then run in and play aggressively until he gets his own hits in, then rinse and repeat. While you're in the aggressive state, I'd also recommend your quicker-hitting moves above all others since it gives him less opportunity to throw out a get-off-me N-air.

Despite having his own projectile, Dedede really isn't great at approaching - His Gordos being reflected can cause some issues for him and give him more to think about. Since you have two projectiles (Assuming you're going by the R.O.B. strategy), you can throw out a Laser to knock his Gordo out like a clay pigeon, then immediately shoot out a Gyro (I think that's its name...) to give him another projectile to deal with, which will allow you to approach without the worry of him baiting you out.

Then again, I never 100% know what I'm talking about, so I could be entirely wrong, but it's worth a shot, right...?


P.S. This is the first I've ever heard of a Dedede using D-air to approach, at least in Smash 4. As far as I know, it's a pretty unsafe move and rather easy to punish, especially when compared to N-air..

 

[chronoboy]

I forgot to mention. Fox is one of secondaries. I should add him to the sig..

 

[chronoboy]

Lil' old Dedede's biggest weakness is his size and mobility - He's absolute combo food. Your best bet is to play defensively and bait him out with projectiles (R.O.B. is your best bet there, judging by your mains) until he throws out an unsafe move, then run in and play aggressively until he gets his own hits in, then rinse and repeat. While you're in the aggressive state, I'd also recommend your quicker-hitting moves above all others since it gives him less opportunity to throw out a get-off-me N-air.

Despite having his own projectile, Dedede really isn't great at approaching - His Gordos being reflected can cause some issues for him and give him more to think about. Since you have two projectiles (Assuming you're going by the R.O.B. strategy), you can throw out a Laser to knock his Gordo out like a clay pigeon, then immediately shoot out a Gyro (I think that's its name...) to give him another projectile to deal with, which will allow you to approach without the worry of him baiting you out.

Then again, I never 100% know what I'm talking about, so I could be entirely wrong, but it's worth a shot, right...?


P.S. This is the first I've ever heard of a Dedede using D-air to approach, at least in Smash 4. As far as I know, it's a pretty unsafe move and rather easy to punish, especially when compared to N-air..

I guess I should spend some practicing deflecting/avoiding gordos. Someone else recommended trying to stay directly beneath him as he hovers to camp out his baiting and respond with up tilt or shield. Not sure if that works tho.

 

[ExiaPilotDedede]

I guess I should spend some practicing deflecting/avoiding gordos. Someone else recommended trying to stay directly beneath him as he hovers to camp out his baiting and respond with up tilt or shield. Not sure if that works tho.

That can work, the other thing you can do it just keep your distance as much as possible. D3 suffers from major mobility issues. My game play style tends towards trying to be fortress and poking with gordos until the opponent approaches. If you ever see your friend dashing, just spot dodge and punish: D3 takes so long to slow down that it's going to be a dash or grab. Dash attack is so slow, that you should be able to see it coming and a spot dodge works well enough at dodging, but also handles the grab option.

Since you mentioned that he likes to approach from the air more than from the ground, just shield, hold your shield a bit longer than normal and count his jumps. D3 gets 5 jumps, and if you count them , you'll be able to tell when he NEEDS to land, in which case go punish him. As for anything else, just shield it, nothing in his aerial is going to break your shield, so even if he baits -> jumps -> Nair, you might lose 1/2 shield, but then you're in a great position to punish.

 

[Soul Train]

I guess I should spend some practicing deflecting/avoiding gordos. Someone else recommended trying to stay directly beneath him as he hovers to camp out his baiting and respond with up tilt or shield. Not sure if that works tho.

The entirety of "how to beat D3" is summed up here: bait, then punish. Don't respect him. Every button he pushes leaves him open. If you want a really easy win, play Sonic, spindash in and have fun.

The character can't stop rushdown offense, and loses to distance zoning too. Find how to play characters that excel at this, and most of all play reactive, intentionally, watch him and punish what he does, don't just hit buttons randomly.

Gordo is intimidating when you don't understand it, but it's really easy to counter. Just breathe on the thing and it'll fly back in his face - whether with Megaman's pellets, Mario's Nair - just hit it with a nice disjointed hitbox.

Finally, D3 can't kill safely. When you're above 120%, everything he has that'll kill you is punishable with a smash attack of your own. His throws won't kill till 150%+, so shield a lot, and punish his inevitable Dsmash.

 

[Crenando]

Soul Train worded his reply very well. I'd like to add that the lead, and who has it, is integral to Dedede's success. Dedede can neither approach or camp, so putting him in a situation where he needs to do one of the two can almost guarantee your victory. It may be considered "scum" and whatnot, but all in all it comes down to the MU and who won. Seeing as you main Lucario, this could potentially be more difficult for you. If you have a secondary with a strong neutral or projectile game, they're the ideal counterpick. [EDIT: I just realized you said you also play Fox. At higher level, that MU is more or less unwinnable when played correctly. Use him for Dedede.] Basically, get a combo or rack up about 30% lead (so that a single hit can't take the lead). Following this, make some space between you and the penguin and just wait. He HAS to come in. You can just stand there and perfect shield the Gordos otherwise. When he does, bait and punish as usual.

In short, Dedede is the type of character that is directly and most effectively countered by a loss of a lead. Many people get a strong lead in the first minute of a match and lose it all due to the fact that they continued to rush down on him once he was outside of their combo percent ranges. Don't make that mistake, just let him do the work for you.

 

[Maximoto99]

Smack the gordos back at his face and approach as quickly and as often as possible. His gordo is knocked back by almost every move in the game, and if he tries to knock them back, you can rush in then, since if they knock it back too late, they'll be in a long animation. Almost all of King Dedede's moves have horrid hitboxes, so you can dash in and attack without having to worry about a punish, unless they are in midair. If that's the case, try to stay below them with shield if you have a quick option to punish a landing option.

 

[Red-Villain]

-Ranged zoners (Mega Man and Villager, his hardest MU's) or rush-down/aggressors with strong combo potential (Mario, Shiek, Sonic)

-Gordo's, optimally, should be power-shielded or avoided (a good D3 will mix up gordo's to either: hit the opponent directly, cover D3's approach in the neutral/when recovering, or to capitalize on the opponents frames who hit them back). Situationally, however, quick moves that have low FAF's are good to reflect gordos when spaced just outside the range of D3's F-tilt.

-Don't stale your kill moves; until his % is ~120 don't bother trying to finish the stock, D3's greatest strength is his survivability. Furthermore, prioritize moves that send him to the horizontal blast-zones.

-Stages with platforms are best- still better if the left/right blast zones are closer to the stage.

-D3 especially has the advantage when he's a stock ahead with high rage. When trying to close his first stock, do not try to rush or carelessly throw out finishers with high ending lag- D3 capitalizes on these and will use such to widen his advantage.

-Exercise caution offstage, or when edge-guarding D3. He's notoriously difficult to edge-guard and sports, arguably, one of the best recoveries in the game. Anticipate that he will opt for low recovery options, and note that his Up-special grants him super-armor on his ascent (starting from frames 26-32, and again from 73-80.) and intangibility. Watch out for mix-ups that land him on your shield. Punish if he lands on stage.