How to be a King: K.Rool - Matchups, Analysis, and Training

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#1
So you want to be a master of the King Kroc?
Do you have the skills to be number one?

Well, Im sure I will not. But this is the first game I plan to play competitively.
We won't know for sure until more of us get to play, but with more footage released, I think we will start to see some fun things happen.
I know some of you are professionals at the art of dissecting. We know how the training mode will work in this game; how can we apply that to K. Rool?
 

DJ3DS

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#2
I think it's very early to make massive insights. This said, these are my thoughts based on the moves we know he has:

Neutral B - Cannonball / Vacuum - I'm not sure how useful the cannonball is going to be. The vacuum is interesting and a lot is going to depend on how it functions. If it allows you to use a command grab for some fixed time after firing the cannonball, that's going to be an interesting tool.

Optimal result - cannonball has decent range. We can fire it and then chase after, threatening with a command grab if they shield it.

Side B - Crown Toss - as this acts like a boomerang, it's best use is likely going to be to limit movement options and force shields on the return.

Up B - Helipack - its very unclear how this currently works. I'm hopeful we can attack out of it in some way (either as a hitbox on the move itself, or like ROB) as the speed looks useful for chasing.

Down B - Counter - Largely likely to be useful for edgeguards in the same way Marth and Lucina mains do it. Not really a neutral tool and potentially quite telegraphed.

As a more general note, as we have two projectiles it's not unreasonable to hope we can B Reverse them. If the change in momentum is noticeable this may give K Rool somewhat better landing options than most heavies.

Those are the special moves. Beyond a couple of niche things (Up Throw probably being usable as a suicide throw for example) there's not a huge amount else to talk about. The burying tilt could be very useful as a kill confirm I guess.

The thing to watch out for in my opinion is how good his projectiles are at forcing shields and what reward he gets off of a grab.
 
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#4
I think it's very early to make massive insights.
We will need the game before we can be sure...
I think that we saw an emphasis on the villain theme with K Rool, for sure. I actually think that means it is the last bad guy we will get (the lead in on DK's TV felt like a finale to me, anywho).

I CANNOT wait to try out the king on the Training map. Learn all those odd trajectories and the scale of his belly during a counter.
 

DJ3DS

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#5
We will need the game before we can be sure...
I think that we saw an emphasis on the villain theme with K Rool, for sure. I actually think that means it is the last bad guy we will get (the lead in on DK's TV felt like a finale to me, anywho).

I CANNOT wait to try out the king on the Training map. Learn all those odd trajectories and the scale of his belly during a counter.
Sure, I'm just talking in terms of theorycrafting his moveset that we have very little to go on. There are some general ideas you can pull out but not much more.
 
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#6
Sure, I'm just talking in terms of theorycrafting his moveset that we have very little to go on. There are some general ideas you can pull out but not much more.
I am not the guy who can look at a character and understand everything about them. The concept of the game turns my brain onto it more than everything else.
 
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#8
When did we get our first Ridley update after the announcement of him?
...did we yet?

Right. Immediately after. During the treehouse where they played as him, not to mention the tournament.
Eek. Well soon. He is currently the most mysterious Smash player. That's a fun temporary title.
 

S_B

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#9
Hoping the eventual demo they release isn't just the same E3 demo without any updates to the roster, but that may well be the case.

We'll see...
 
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#10
Hoping the eventual demo they release isn't just the same E3 demo without any updates to the roster, but that may well be the case.

We'll see...
I am hoping for that as well, I've somewhat been "assuming" that will happen.
 

Call_Me_Red

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#13
So, my findings so far:
-Of course his super armor is the main staple in his gameplay (fun fact, his side taunt has super armor). I feel that it's too early in the game's life for super armor to be properly countered, but it will definitely create some interesting mix ups. I.e. When to risk a shield break, as most of King K.'s best moves use super armor.

-Grounding opponents is pivotal to his gameplay. Down Tilt and Down Throw are game changers, use them wisely.

-His recovery is good, but will eventually be easily abusable. Again, I think the game is too young for anyone to challenge up-b yet, but it does leave the King wide open.

-BACK AIR IS INCREBIBLE. Maybe because people haven't learned to fear it yet, but back air is very high reward for very low risk. It makes a good edge guard and landing mix up.

-Projectiles, projectiles, projectiles. Mr. Rool is great at zoning, use this in every possible instance. Side b can lead to combos on the crown's return, and neutral b can be used as a command grab mix up for some insane damage. (Hitting cannonball, then getting grab does ~30 percent, hitting cannonball, then sucking up cannonball and hitting it again does ~37)

-Potential combos after throw. I think throws have a lot of potential for combo game. Obviously down throw, but I think up throw at mid percent can lead to a 50/50 with up air. Needs testing, but I think there's potential.

Overall our big boy is very solid, but I fear he will soon drop in tiers the later the game goes on.
 
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Videocatbox

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#14
K. Rool has some combos out of falling sourspot Nair and Fair, both into dash attack at mid percents. Fair is true into dash roll cancelled grab which can lead into Dthrow followed by an utilt for around 30% extra.
Uthrow is good for damage and potential juggles with utilt if able to follow the opponents movement.
Dair to usmash is true once dair starts spiking and is a kill combo because of usmash extremely quick startup.
 

Alsyght

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#16
I feel his gameplay, aside from the super armor, revolves around his projectiles. Mainly, the Krown Toss. It’s great for pressuring opponents not to get hit by it keeping K Rool at an advantage when you do have it. I’ve been nigh-spamming it when I don’t want to get close and it allows me to get a good follow up most of the time against people. The Bkunderbuss is a great choice as well since it travels farther and it doesn’t require you to keep up with it.

I feel King K is a zoning/offensive character because of this. It could be just the way I’m playing, but it’s been working. The super armor imo is just a bonus to protect my alligator daddy when things go wrong.

i think the most annoying part has been how much people complain about the character
It’s Bayonetta all over again. I bet people were complianing about Metaknight in Brawl when it was released lol.
 
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Daedra

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#17
I feel his gameplay, aside from the super armor, revolves around his projectiles. Mainly, the Krown Toss. It’s great for pressuring opponents not to get hit by it keeping K Rool at an advantage when you do have it. I’ve been nigh-spamming it when I don’t want to get close and it allows me to get a good follow up most of the time against people. The Bkunderbuss is a great choice as well since it travels farther and it doesn’t require you to keep up with it.

I feel King K is a zoning/offensive character because of this. It could be just the way I’m playing, but it’s been working. The super armor imo is just a bonus to protect my alligator daddy when things go wrong.



It’s Bayonetta all over again. I bet people were complianing about Metaknight in Brawl when it was released lol.

makes me feel guilty for having so much fun with the character lol but i see the same amount of hate for chrom and richter so i feel slightly less sad
 

Rocketjay8

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#18
makes me feel guilty for having so much fun with the character lol but i see the same amount of hate for chrom and richter so i feel slightly less sad
Don't be guilty. He's definitely not going to be anywhere near metaknight or bayo because unlike them he has weaknesses. He even has a few characters in the game that cripples his projectile game (Villager/Isabelle, King Dedede).
 
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Call_Me_Red

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#19
Update on my K Rool Findings:

-K Rool's strongest options in neutral are probably Nair and F tilt. I find a short hop Nair approach is able to catch most people, if they catch on, threaten with empty hop grabs. Also dash into jab is a very strong option and great if the opponent does not expect it.

-Dair goes through platforms. King K's legs extend past platforms when landing with Dair. Dair through platforms is a very strong option. It hits most tall characters and anyone who even extends a little bit. It also leads into up air/tilt/smash. This puts pressure on people below you, which is obviously an incredible advantage. I think this will be meta defining for our King and savior.

-It is okay to mix up super armor moves when your belly is cracked. King K is obviously at a disadvantage when his belly is cracked, because most of his good moves use his belly. However, when it is cracked, an occasional f tilt or dash attack can catch your opponents off guard. Make sure it's only occasional though.

-Counter has more potential than meets the eye. It is an excellent way to counter free heavy hitting moves. For example, Ness going for the kill with back air? Tighten that tummy! Against projectiles it's also a very nice mix up.

-Don't fear a good masher. When facing a fast masher, punish their escape from D-throw with an up air or forward air. This is an excellent way to close out a stock. My strategy is to condition them with D-throw U-tilt until they are at kill percent where they will mash like their life depends on it. Then use one up air to seal the deal. Be careful because sometimes a mash will lead to an unintentional good option.

-UP B IS A KILL MOVE. It is very situational, but up throw to up b can lead to easy stocks, especially on top platform of battlefield. Use this sparingly, but I have yet to be hard punished for missing it.

Soon King K will be just another heavy as people learn the matchup, so let's keep up the knowledge and learning so Mr. Rool doesn't fall behind!
 
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Empty Number

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#20
Update on my K Rool Findings:

-K Rool's strongest options in neutral are probably Nair and F tilt. I find a short hop Nair approach is able to catch most people, if they catch on, threaten with empty hop grabs. Also dash into jab is a very strong option and great if the opponent does not expect it.

-Dair through platforms is a very strong option. It hits most tall characters and anyone who even extends a little bit. It also leads into up air/tilt/smash. I think this will be meta defining for our King and savior.

-It is okay to mix up super armor moves when your belly is cracked. King K is obviously at a disadvantage when his belly is cracked, because most of his good moves use his belly. However, when it is cracked, an occasional f tilt or dash attack can catch your opponents off guard. Make sure it's only occasional though.

-Counter has more potential than meets the eye. It is an excellent way to counter free heavy hitting moves. For example, Ness going for the kill with back air? Tighten that tummy! Against projectiles it's also a very nice mix up.

-Don't fear a good masher. When facing a fast masher, punish their escape from D-throw with an up air or forward air. This is an excellent way to close out a stock. My strategy is to condition them with D-throw U-tilt until they are at kill percent where they will mash like their life depends on it. Then use one up air to seal the deal. Be careful because sometimes a mash will lead to an unintentional good option.

-UP B IS A KILL MOVE. It is very situational, but up throw to up b can lead to easy stocks, especially on top platform of battlefield. Use this sparingly, but I have yet to be hard punished for missing it.

Soon King K will be just another heavy as people learn the matchup, so let's keep up the knowledge and learning so Mr. Rool doesn't fall behind!
Can you explain a bit more about falling off platforms with Dair? I struggle getting down from the platforms in battlefield and Dair seems like it would be too slow of a startup to not get punished. Also the superarmor is on his belly - so it’s likely he’d get hit out of the Dair.
 

Call_Me_Red

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#21
Can you explain a bit more about falling off platforms with Dair? I struggle getting down from the platforms in battlefield and Dair seems like it would be too slow of a startup to not get punished. Also the superarmor is on his belly - so it’s likely he’d get hit out of the Dair.
Sorry, maybe I didn't explain properly, Dair goes THROUGH platforms. If you land on a platform with Dair and time it right his legs go through the platform. It reaches about half way from lower platform on battlefield to the ground. This puts pressure on people below you, which is an insanely good trait to have.

Also, as far as getting down from platforms. I recommend jump off Nair. It's King K's safest get down option, and it's very hard to challenge especially at close range.
 
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Call_Me_Red

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#23
I've noticed that Down Smash can hit opponents trying to poke the King with their tilts and the like. Interesting way to close out a stock.

I should probably remind everyone about the Crown Sliding tech that was found recently too.
Woah, thanks for sharing the Crown Slide video. What kind of practicality could this have? Let's say they shield the crown, then what? It's a cool move, and could be used for a nice mix up, but is it actually practical?
 

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#24
Woah, thanks for sharing the Crown Slide video. What kind of practicality could this have? Let's say they shield the crown, then what? It's a cool move, and could be used for a nice mix up, but is it actually practical?
It's surprisingly useful, since when the crown hits the opponent coming back you can get a Down Smash off for a ~40% combo. Great for early leads, and in specific situations it can actually kill too! It's got some good movement, and you can also get some Side Tilt and Forward Smashes off if the crown doesn't catch them.

It's most useful at the bottom of Battlefield and on Final Destination, in my experience. Try it out and see where you can implement it!
 

Call_Me_Red

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#25
Sorry to keep spamming this thread, but what are some good options for 2 frames / punish below the ledge?

I read elsewhere that both f and d tilt hit below ledge, but I find them unreliable at best. There's always run off back air, but that's pretty predictable. If d tilt became reliable it would either have very good knock back or pop them up for a fair. Maybe some crown gimmick like runoff crown throw, get back on stage so the crown follows your trajectory?
 

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#26
Sorry to keep spamming this thread, but what are some good options for 2 frames / punish below the ledge?

I read elsewhere that both f and d tilt hit below ledge, but I find them unreliable at best. There's always run off back air, but that's pretty predictable. If d tilt became reliable it would either have very good knock back or pop them up for a fair. Maybe some crown gimmick like runoff crown throw, get back on stage so the crown follows your trajectory?
To be honest you've listed basically all of his options outside of the silly Blunderbuss Suck Up and the Down Smash (which requires you to be right on the edge if you're trying to trap). Blunderbuss is plain silly and is mostly there to exploit bad players. Down Smash can cover ledge rolls, attempts to getup attack, and occasionally any "drop off Forward Aerial" things.

That Crown Toss idea was pretty bad in my opinion, and is much slower than simply going for the dunk with Back Aerial. You could try it, but if you're going for gimmicks the Blunderbuss Suck Up off stage is 10x more stylish and gives you sweet memories of when WeegeeTheGod was relevant.

Down-angled Side Tilt is my go-to option usually, since it's just good at what it does. Decently fast, has nice knockback, etc.
 

OldHickory

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#27
So, I'm an Incineroar player, and these two have an interesting matchup. Especially fitting since the are painted as rivals in media.
In short, both have the tools to maul one another. It's very all-or-nothing.

While K Rool can zone and ledge guard Incineroar, the big cat can bust K Rool wide open given the opportunity.

Short on time currently, so I'll flesh it out later.
 

Empty Number

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#28
So, I'm an Incineroar player, and these two have an interesting matchup. Especially fitting since the are painted as rivals in media.
In short, both have the tools to maul one another. It's very all-or-nothing.

While K Rool can zone and ledge guard Incineroar, the big cat can bust K Rool wide open given the opportunity.

Short on time currently, so I'll flesh it out later.
Yes I’ve had a lot of tough, even matchups against Cinnamon Cat. Incineroar’s frame data is very good, and it’s difficult to punish his hopping approach with my own aerials. I usually rely on conditioning him to expect the crown and then punish him with a beefy grab. Dash dancing into down tilt works well too.
 

OldHickory

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#29
Okay, now to explaining cat vs croc.

First off in K Rool's favor, coverage. The crown makes for a good barrier, and isn't really a viable Revenge target due to its looping behavior. Off stage, Incineroar has very limited options. There's very few ways past the blunderbuss suction, the only one of which that actually punishes K Rool, ledge drop, jump Cross Chop, is a hard commitment.
Takes very little to make violin strings of Incineroar.

In Incineroar's favor, grabs and damage. I'll warn you right now, don't use your armored options if Incineroar has Revenge active. He can and will blow K Rool's belly open on trades, f-smash busting it in one hit. Given how grabby the cat is, armor in general is very risky. Next, any time K Rool recovers low, there's a guaranteed Revenge boost off the propeller. If he's in position to back-throw, you'll die super early. Finally, the blunderbuss cannonball is your own worst enemy. It mostly charges Revenge at once, meaning you may very suddenly lose a percentage lead, get put way behind, or just flat die.

As a side note, it's interesting how the two have basically the same f-air, up-throw, and down-smash.
 
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Call_Me_Red

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#30
I started playing around with the crown slide, and there's a lot you can do with it. The standard is to do a small slide and end up turned around. But, if you quickly input another forward (so dash, backwards, then forwards) you can end up facing the correct way. Also if you delay the timing of the turnaround you can do a little wave dash type movement. I'm not sure if it's useful yet, but it seems like enough to intimidate your opponent. Will keep working on more tech.

Edit 1: It seems the forward slide comes out when inputting another dash. I think that's how the backwards one works too, so it's completely possible to constantly get a forward slide. Going forward back forward may not even be necessary. You may be able to do it with just one well times forward dash.

On a side note, I think crown through into dash cancelled f tilt is an amazing coverage option. Or maybe even a roll cancelled grab. I think that mix up is a good bread and butter for K Rool.
 
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#33
Probably has been covered, but D-Smash and D-Tilt have shock waves that can pop enemies up from the ledge if they're being annoying; think Villager and Isabel who like to continuously latch onto the ledge and use the Slingshot. The very edge of these skills' hit-boxes will cause them to pop up, and you can follow it up with quite a few things; namely aerials, U-Tilt or even possibly an F-Tilt that is aimed upward.

Then again, D-Smash is excellent at straight-up killing these people in its own right, but if the enemy isn't quite at kill percent, the sour spot "shock wave" from these skills could potentially lead to some more interesting followups at lower %s.
 
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