How should franchises that "switch out" main characters be handled? (Pokémon, Fire Emblem, Xenoblade, [maybe] Zelda)

[Quillion]

This is a question I've been meaning to ask for a while. I've seen it come up that Pokémon deserves to accumulate all of its characters while Fire Emblem doesn't because the former is so big and the latter isn't. I've also seen talk on how one-shot Zelda characters should or shouldn't be in Smash.

But this time, I'm bringing up this topic in a more general sense. How should Smash handle all of these franchises that have a revolving door cast? Should they just be allowed to accumulate characters with each Smash endlessly? Should they be limited to a fixed number? Should they have just a core cast while there are a few that swap in and out with each Smash?

First, I would like to define a "franchise that switches out main characters" is one where the core cast of characters is completely swapped out. For the examples in the title:

• Fire Emblem goes without saying. Characters almost never reappear from one game to the next, let alone core characters. There's always a new lord, new implied love interest, new green and red cavs, new low-growth prepromote.
• Xenoblade is in the same boat as Fire Emblem, which is to be expected as it follows the Final Fantasy school of casts. Each game (kinda, spoilers) takes place in a new universe with a new set of people. There are some recurring races like the Nopon, but the characters themselves change entirely.
• Pokémon is a franchise that changes its mon availability every game. Yes, each new Pokémon that is added to the National Pokédex is a part of the series forever, but each game always has a different lineup of Pokémon: new starters, new regional birds, new common rodents, new pseudos, new cover legendaries. There's usually a number of old Pokémon available, but very few of them aside from Pikachu take center stage from game to game.

This is in opposition to characters with a staple cast like Mario or Kirby:

• Mario may have some recent additions to the core cast like Rosalina or Captain Toad and some one-shots like FLUDD or Cappy, but the staple cast will always be Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, and Bowser Jr.
• Kirby's cast will always be Kirby, Meta Knight, King Dedede, and (debatably) Bandana Dee. Susie, Magolor, Marx, Gooey, Adeleine, and Ribbon are one-shots, Star Allies notwithstanding.

And then there's Zelda. Zelda occupies a strange middle ground between a "staple cast" franchise and a "switch out" franchise where the characters themselves are entirely new, but they are part of a legacy where they share the same roles and names. They attempted to make Ganon the exception for a time, but even he is subject to this now. And this series even has one-shots like Navi, Midna, King Daphnes, the Champions, and Fi.

So what is the best way to handle franchises like this? We need to settle this on a general level.

 

[Opossum]

For me personally, I just think that if a character is popular and/or brings something fresh to the table, they should be brought in. I'm of the belief that over-representation isn't really a thing that matters, or exists for that matter, so I don't think hard limits should be set on a franchise's character number.

I'm also in general not opposed to one-shots. I think characters like Daruk, for example, would be terrific in Smash.

 

[Luigifan18]

Pokémon doesn't deserve to retain its characters because of its size, but rather because its old characters remain relevant. The latest, coolest 'mon now will still have its place in the franchise a decade later as one of the multitude of creatures to collect. Compare this to Fire Emblem and Zelda, which essentially stuff their one-shots (which, for Fire Emblem, is almost the entire roster of its characters outside of Anna) into the filing cabinet once their stories are done, only pulling them back out for big franchise celebrations like Warriors games or Fire Emblem Heroes. Compare Marth, who only shows up in the games dedicated to him or the ones drawing from his entire franchise, to Pikachu and Jigglypuff, who are consistently part of the Pokédex in every game. It's just not a fair comparison.

 

[Quillion]

For me personally, I just think that if a character is popular and/or brings something fresh to the table, they should be brought in. I'm of the belief that over-representation isn't really a thing that matters, or exists for that matter, so I don't think hard limits should be set on a franchise's character number.

I'm also in general not opposed to one-shots. I think characters like Daruk, for example, would be terrific in Smash.

There definitely needs to be some kind of limit in place. As big as Pokémon is, even its roster can't overtake Mario's even in Smash.

 

[Necro'lic]

There definitely needs to be some kind of limit in place. As big as Pokémon is, even its roster can't overtake Mario's even in Smash.

You forget that in Brawl, it did overtake Mario's roster.

 

[Quillion]

Pokémon doesn't deserve to retain its characters because of its size, but rather because its old characters remain relevant. The latest, coolest 'mon now will still have its place in the franchise a decade later as one of the multitude of creatures to collect. Compare this to Fire Emblem and Zelda, which essentially stuff their one-shots (which, for Fire Emblem, is almost the entire roster of its characters outside of Anna) into the filing cabinet once their stories are done, only pulling them back out for big franchise celebrations like Warriors games or Fire Emblem Heroes. Compare Marth, who only shows up in the games dedicated to him or the ones drawing from his entire franchise, to Pikachu and Jigglypuff, who are consistently part of the Pokédex in every game. It's just not a fair comparison.

I did say that the old Pokémon are forever a part of the National Pokédex, but I wouldn't say that, Pikachu and a few Gen 1 staples aside, they're not exactly relevant the way new Starters or cover legendaries are.

It's still closer to Fire Emblem and Xenoblade than it is to Mario and Kirby.

You forget that in Brawl, it did overtake Mario's roster.

Touché, but only by having a package deal by including Pokémon Trainer. Even still, I'd call that an exception to the rule.

 

[Deathcarter]

-I'm fine with Pokemon getting obligatory new characters as Pokémon characters tend to be unique, popular additions by default so long as it bears more of the cost in terms of cuts in comparison to the B-tier frachises like it did in Brawl/Smash 4. Pikachu, PKMN Trainer, Mewtwo, Lucario, and maybe Puff shoud be staples but Pichu, Incineroar, and Greninja can certainly go if deadline issues necessitate it.


-On the opposite end, I'd rather just keep most of the existing Fire Emblem cast as opposed to slotting in the obligatory flavor of the week since there's no guarantee that the new character will be unique (Chrom) or popular (Robin's notably less popular than the other FE character). The one real change I'd make is replacing Roy with Lyn because we don't need 4 Marth clones, we don't have iaijutsu fighter, and Lyn has proven long term popularity despite being "irrelevant".

-I'm not worried about Xenoblade since it only has one character and its an active franchise so I don't care if it gets an token new character as long as said character has a unique moveset.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Fire Emblem is fine, using protagonists from notable games. And yes, Robin, Lucina and Chrom are all considered protagonists of the same game.

Zelda should maybe add Impa, since she's had various incarnations across the games like Link, Zelda and Ganondorf. YL, TL and Sheik are fine, but other than those three no other one offs. unless it's Groose.

Xenoblade...do the Fire Emblem approach. If a future DLC season happens, Rex and/or Pyra/Mythra, or even Lora and Jin may have a shot. But for now, Elma may be the prime candidate for a second Xenoblade rep, being from Xenoblade X (2015). Her heavily pushed promotion as a DLC Blade in Xenoblade 2 helps her too, I'd think. Maybe if they pull a Chrom, Mecha-Fiora could be in Season 2 and they apply some kinda workaround for her Final Smash self, like her being absent from Shulk's FS when her playable self is on the field, much like how Fox and Falco's FSes work.

Pokemon is fine as is, though I wouldn't mind the once-considered Decidueye becoming DLC, or even an Ultra Beast like Buzzwole.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Personally, I hate the idea of cuts, but a rotating spot seems like the best idea. They should do this for a lot of IP's in Smash to keep things fresh and avoid clutter, and then maybe a decade or two from now have another "Everyone is Here" scene.

 

[Opossum]

There definitely needs to be some kind of limit in place. As big as Pokémon is, even its roster can't overtake Mario's even in Smash.

Who says it has to have less than Mario? Brawl can't be an "exception to the rule" if there was never a rule in the first place.

And even if you consider Pokémon Trainer a fringe case (which he isn't, considering Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard are numbered separately in Ultimate), keep in mind Brawl almost had Mewtwo as well.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Pokémon doesn't deserve to retain its characters because of its size, but rather because its old characters remain relevant. The latest, coolest 'mon now will still have its place in the franchise a decade later as one of the multitude of creatures to collect. Compare this to Fire Emblem and Zelda, which essentially stuff their one-shots (which, for Fire Emblem, is almost the entire roster of its characters outside of Anna) into the filing cabinet once their stories are done, only pulling them back out for big franchise celebrations like Warriors games or Fire Emblem Heroes. Compare Marth, who only shows up in the games dedicated to him or the ones drawing from his entire franchise, to Pikachu and Jigglypuff, who are consistently part of the Pokédex in every game. It's just not a fair comparison.

I would say that several FE protagonists have also managed to achieve such a similar status that allows them to remain relevant throughout their series despite their personal journey being concluded. Marth debuted in 1990 and Ike in 2005, yet they still enjoy plenty of exposure in this era, not very different from a mon that has been popular for over a decade. Lucina and Roy may potentially become the same.

Since Awakening, they have appeared in every FE game since then and they tend to have the status of a legendary hero in-universe, even having their own campaigns through the outrealms or interactions via amiibo.

I don't think most of those characters should be switched out of Smash to be replaced by the newest sensation just because some people who are still ticked off by it say so. Some even go as far as telling fans of those characters that they are being selfish because they are preventing newer additions from making the cut; new characters that don't exist yet and therefore we don't care about at the time to ask for a spot in Smash.

There definitely needs to be some kind of limit in place. As big as Pokémon is, even its roster can't overtake Mario's even in Smash.

That limit you speak of is a fan made quota. Sorry, but no.
The ones who decide whether there should be some kind of limit or not are Nintendo and Sakurai. They clearly aren't bothered by the amount of Pokemon in the series like you are to the point of considering it a problem.
Not saying that people shouldn't have an opinion of this, but putting an arbitrary character count per series does more harm than good, and the reasoning behind it is less about its potential benefits and more about people being bothered that their favorite franchise has one or two less characters than their most hated franchise.

People will want everyone to have their fair share, but life doesn't always work like that. You can make your own fighting crossover and be as fair as you humanly can. If it's truly fair, no one should complain, right? Wrong. People will tell you why there is more of this and less of that.

 

[Nepht]

This is a question I've been meaning to ask for a while. I've seen it come up that Pokémon deserves to accumulate all of its characters while Fire Emblem doesn't because the former is so big and the latter isn't. I've also seen talk on how one-shot Zelda characters should or shouldn't be in Smash.

But this time, I'm bringing up this topic in a more general sense. How should Smash handle all of these franchises that have a revolving door cast? Should they just be allowed to accumulate characters with each Smash endlessly? Should they be limited to a fixed number? Should they have just a core cast while there are a few that swap in and out with each Smash?

First, I would like to define a "franchise that switches out main characters" is one where the core cast of characters is completely swapped out. For the examples in the title:

• Fire Emblem goes without saying. Characters almost never reappear from one game to the next, let alone core characters. There's always a new lord, new implied love interest, new green and red cavs, new low-growth prepromote.
• Xenoblade is in the same boat as Fire Emblem, which is to be expected as it follows the Final Fantasy school of casts. Each game (kinda, spoilers) takes place in a new universe with a new set of people. There are some recurring races like the Nopon, but the characters themselves.

Shulk, Elma and even Kos-Mos are in Xenoblade 2.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Personally I hope the only cuts we see going forward are ones that prove to have licensing issues, I know that's probably unrealistic, but after Ultimate I think it'll be very very difficult to accept first party cuts, so for me it's more of a question of whether to keep adding onto these series rather than who to replace.

Pokémon is incredibly hard to argue against, it provides us with more character potential than any other series while also having mass appeal beyond any other series in Smash, it's unique and deserves every special privilege it gets.

Xenoblade is at a point where it probably should have a second character, so no arguing here either, whenever it gets a newcomer it'll only be deserved. Whether it should keep on getting its new main characters in beyond that I'm not sure, it depends a lot on how it evolves and its future success.

Fire Emblem I think is in a bit of a different situation to the other two, it's at a point where I'd say it should only get a newcomer if it's a main character which could really bring something new to the table, and while this is fine as long as it keeps pumping out Corrins and Celicas (who despite not making it would have been fairly unique), there's no guarantee that it'll keep doing that. If a new Lord/Avatar comes around with something that sets him/her apart, then by all means put that character in Smash, but historically the series has usually made its main character a regular swordsman, and with Marth, Roy, Ike, Lucina and Chrom all in I don't think another one of those would add much to the game at this point, so if that's the kind of character that's relevant come Smash 6 then I don't see the point of adding him/her.

Zelda is difficult to lump together with the others, because I don't feel like it depends as much on relevancy as the others due to always starring the same stable cast of characters (with Ganon taking the occasional break). I feel like it's a series which could still justify an old popular character like Skull Kid getting in over a character from the newest game, because a lot of the time the character from the newest game will just be a side character.

 

[Quillion]

Shulk, Elma and even Kos-Mos are in Xenoblade 2.

Those are just fun cameos; they're hardly relevant to the series. Also, Gears isn't Blade, since the "Xeno series" isn't even officially a series since it's held between three different companies.

Personally I hope the only cuts we see going forward are ones that prove to have licensing issues, I know that's probably unrealistic, but after Ultimate I think it'll be very very difficult to accept first party cuts, so for me it's more of a question of whether to keep adding onto these series rather than who to replace.

Pokémon is incredibly hard to argue against, it provides us with more character potential than any other series while also having mass appeal beyond any other series in Smash, it's unique and deserves every special privilege it gets.

No arguments there. The one issue I see is that the only characters that have been getting any spotlight focus lately seem to be either the starters or the cover legendaries. We don't seem to be getting a unique anime-pushed Mon the way Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, and Lucario were.

Xenoblade is at a point where it probably should have a second character, so no arguing here either, whenever it gets a newcomer it'll only be deserved. Whether it should keep on getting its new main characters in beyond that I'm not sure, it depends a lot on how it evolves and its future success.

Fire Emblem I think is in a bit of a different situation to the other two, it's at a point where I'd say it should only get a newcomer if it's a main character which could really bring something new to the table, and while this is fine as long as it keeps pumping out Corrins and Celicas (who despite not making it would have been fairly unique), there's no guarantee that it'll keep doing that. If a new Lord/Avatar comes around with something that sets him/her apart, then by all means put that character in Smash, but historically the series has usually made its main character a regular swordsman, and with Marth, Roy, Ike, Lucina and Chrom all in I don't think another one of those would add much to the game at this point, so if that's the kind of character that's relevant come Smash 6 then I don't see the point of adding him/her.

The problem is that these two series adhere to the RPG trope of the main character having the most basic abilities. It's not really a bad thing in itself, since the first character needs to have the most basic skillset in order to ease players into the game, but I don't think we're ever going to get an Axe Fighter, Knight, Dark Mage, or War Monk.

RPGs sadly tend to make their more unique characters less relevant to the plot, which doesn't bode well for the "uniqueness crowd" who wants the more unique characters from those games.

Zelda is difficult to lump together with the others, because I don't feel like it depends as much on relevancy as the others due to always starring the same stable cast of characters (with Ganon taking the occasional break). I feel like it's a series which could still justify an old popular character like Skull Kid getting in over a character from the newest game, because a lot of the time the character from the newest game will just be a side character.

Wait, where are you getting the idea that people want one-shot side characters from Zelda in Smash? The most popular choices are either the one-shot main characters or villains (Skull Kid+Majora's Mask, Vaati, Midna, Ghirahim, the Champions) or the recurring side characters (Impa, Tingle).

None of the non-Triforce holders are particularly relevant anyways, but most of them seem to appeal to the "uniqueness crowd". And it does appear that Zelda subscribes to the idea of the main character having basic abilities despite it mostly not being an RPG and not having other playable characters.

 

[Nepht]

"Xeno series" isn't even officially a series since it's held between three different companies.

Monolith begs to differ. Anyway the main character of the Xeno series is the Zohar the best that thing could get in Smash is a cameo as some freaky assist trophy.

 

[Quillion]

Monolith begs to differ. Anyway the main character of the Xeno series is the Zohar the best that thing could get in Smash is a cameo as some freaky assist trophy.

They're made by the same studio (more or less counting pre-Monolith under Square), but the three official Xeno series are held by three different publishers: Square, Namco, and Nintendo.

 

[Deleted member]

Shulk, Elma and even Kos-Mos are in Xenoblade 2.

Well, to be fair they are non-canon DLC (besides KOS-MOS who's an entirely different story, being a new incarnation who's just a blade with a connection to the conduit that just so happens to be named KOS-MOS)

 

[Arthur97]

Even if they show up as a cameo, it helps keep them relevant.

I do think Link should be more general and less specific (leaving that up to the likes of Toon and Young Link).

As for Fire Emblem, most of the cast now is pretty iconic in their own ways with maybe the exceptions of the Corrins. That's not to say they should be locked at this number for all time as just about all of them in now have significant fan bases but simply denying any newcomers would also be a disservice to future games...maybe. However, they may want to stop putting them in so early and give the new games time to see how people react to any potential Smash additions. Like going back and putting Chrom in after he proved a popular candidate even after several years.

 

[DarthEnderX]

You include the ones people like the most.

 

[Quillion]

You include the ones people like the most.

What if we get a Greninja or Roy situation where they're decided before their games are even out. The ones that people "like the most" by default excludes fresh new faces who are in games developed at the same time as Smash.

 

[Arthur97]

What if we get a Greninja or Roy situation where they're decided before their games are even out. The ones that people "like the most" by default excludes fresh new faces who are in games developed at the same time as Smash.

The idea should be to not do that. They got lucky with Roy. Didn't work as well with the Corrins.

 

[Luigifan18]

What if we get a Greninja or Roy situation where they're decided before their games are even out. The ones that people "like the most" by default excludes fresh new faces who are in games developed at the same time as Smash.

It worked for Roy and Greninja, but for Corrin, it appears to have backfired.

EDIT: Doh, 'd.

 

[DarthEnderX]

What if we get a Greninja or Roy situation where they're decided before their games are even out. The ones that people "like the most" by default excludes fresh new faces who are in games developed at the same time as Smash.

Good. They shouldn't be shoehorning in characters before they even know if people like them or not.

 

[Nepht]

What if we get a Greninja or Roy situation where they're decided before their games are even out. The ones that people "like the most" by default excludes fresh new faces who are in games developed at the same time as Smash.

People buy Smash for characters they like. Smash is all about popular characters like Mario and Pikachu not fresh faces. Does not matter if say someone like Cloud has only had one game (by the way he has been playable in LOTS of games before Smash) people for reasons unknown to science seem to like the little emo. He is popular, he is videogames, he is in. That is just how Smash is.

 

[VexTheHex]

They should add characters that weer at least decently prominent and would be unique and colorful additions to the cast.

Pokemon has aced this, even if some people still disagree on Incineroar. But he does stand out and has a lot of flair to him while offering something new to the cast overall. Two electric rats, a pink diva balloon, quick water turtle, dragon, plant dinosaur, ninja frog, wrestler tiger, psychic abomination, and aura based Anubis creature are very diverse and exciting! I hope they keep it up.

Should Stay -
Debateable -
Can Leave -

Overall though, the Pokemon case is one in which the cuts will suck the most cause of how diverse the cast it. Pichu is the only redundant one. Jigglypuff was lucky she got in and probably is the least deserving one. And lastly Pokemon Trainer is part of the over representation argument cause being 3 reps in one. Adding another final stage starter like Sceptille or Gen 8's Grass Starter can cover the main 3 types. Incineroar is more up to debate since some peopled have been pretty jaded to the cat, but I could easily see him being the Pokemon heavy weight if the resource drain of PT is cut out. And I'm of the boat that spreading Gen representation out is better than Gen 1 being all that's really there. But I can see v being pretty up in the air. Maybe even a new/different Fire starter would be a better pick... like Emboar... everyone's favorite.



Fire Emblem does well at adding the prominent characters, but it fails at delivering unique and colorful additions. Four blue haired swordsmen, one red haired swordsman, and 2 white haired magical swordsmen are not very exciting when the series has lances, axes, bows, dragons, horses, mages, and shape shifting people. The issue is that the main characters for the series are very cookie cutter and the more colorful and diverse cast members are all side liners. Very disheartening situation, may be better to add a more popular side liner and not more blue/white haired swordsmen/women.

Should Stay -
Debateable - One of , , or
Can Leave - Two of , , or

Marth is the original, Ike is the most popular, and Robin hails from one of the more popular and recent additions while sporting a unique kit. After that, I feel it'd be better to have more side line or interesting cast members chosen more for what they bring to the table rather than them being the new generic face. I can see a debate to keep one more of the 3 Marth clones at least to keep Roy's semi-clone status alive. Chrom is probably more deserving since Roy really isn't popular in a similar light to Corrin. Corrin being generally and mostly disliked in both fandoms really hurt their spot even if they are more unique than the 3 Marth clones.



Zelda is a mess cause more Links or Zeldas would be terribly boring and the 3 Links are already eye roll worthy. I'd rather see one Link and Sheik (if we get a one off, it should be someone that's not Zelda, Link, or Ganondorf) get axed and we bring in someone like Tingle or Impa who could at least boast they have been in multiple games. I don't care if Americans hate Tingle, he's probably the most deserving one sporting his own little series.

Should Stay -
Debateable - One of or
Can Leave - and One of or

Like Fire Emblem, they made need to dive into side characters with potential rather than filling the roster with the same general guy/girl.



I know little about Xenoblade but Shulk should stay as the face of it and I'd rather take Elma over Rex cause she being more to the table.

 

[YoshiandToad]

My two cents:

Add who remains popular.
Don't add them to advertise, don't add them because they're just new. Instead add them in the following Smash if they prove their popularity retains.

Corrin, despite being a very unique fire emblem playable character isn't particularly popular with either Fire Emblem fans or Smash fans due to a myriad of reasons such as poor writing or the percieved disasterous DLC reveal for Smash. Corrin is considered by many(from what I can tell as an outsider) to be one of the worst lords ever due to the way s/he is written.
Roy also may not be as popular as he currently is if not for Smash, since everyone I read talking about Roy in his game tends to be either negative or just describe him as a bit bland and forgettable.

Chrom actually did sort of manage this, and he managed to remain a popular character despite not being the latest lord of the series. Lyndis and Hector are both insanely popular but will never get a chance to shine because they're not 'new'. I have no doubts Lucina and Ike would have also still gone down pretty well if they'd been introduced into Smash past their series debut.

I also wonder if the likes of Lucario and Greninja would remain as popular as they are without Smash bolstering their fandom. Look at Zoroark who had many of the trappings Lucario had; bipedal wolfish thing with her own movie dedicated to her and seen as the 'mascot' of Gen 5. Now no one really cares about Zoroark despite all the hype built up around her.

Meanwhile Pokemon like Blaziken, Gardevoir, Eevee, Meowth, Gengar and Snorlax, have managed to retain their popularity for decades to the point they're all more popular with Pokemon fans than Jigglypuff, Pichu or Ivysaur at the very least and are arguable on at least Lucario's level. These Pokemon have staying power and it's a shame two of them got skipped over due to Smash not coming out during Hoenn and the rest having to fight with the likes of Mewtwo and Pokemon Trainer due to the percieved 'too much gen 1' arguments.

Zelda has so many characters that, whilst being one offs, have remained popular.
Skull Kid, Midna, and even Tetra and Ghirahim to a lesser degree have all proven to remain firm fan favourites of the franchise despite the majority of their games being decades old now. You could add them to Ultimate and they'd be as well recieved now as they were back during their individual game's releases because people care about the characters. I'm not sure whether the Champions will remain popular right now despite Breath of the Wild's success but time will surely tell.

 

[Luigifan18]

My two cents:

Add who remains popular.
Don't add them to advertise, don't add them because they're just new. Instead add them in the following Smash if they prove their popularity retains.

Corrin, despite being a very unique fire emblem playable character isn't particularly popular with either Fire Emblem fans or Smash fans due to a myriad of reasons such as poor writing or the percieved disasterous DLC reveal for Smash. Corrin is considered by many(from what I can tell as an outsider) to be one of the worst lords ever due to the way s/he is written.
Roy also may not be as popular as he currently is if not for Smash, since everyone I read talking about Roy in his game tends to be either negative or just describe him as a bit bland and forgettable.

Chrom actually did sort of manage this, and he managed to remain a popular character despite not being the latest lord of the series. Lyndis and Hector are both insanely popular but will never get a chance to shine because they're not 'new'. I have no doubts Lucina and Ike would have also still gone down pretty well if they'd been introduced into Smash past their series debut.

I also wonder if the likes of Lucario and Greninja would remain as popular as they are without Smash bolstering their fandom. Look at Zoroark who had many of the trappings Lucario had; bipedal wolfish thing with her own movie dedicated to her and seen as the 'mascot' of Gen 5. Now no one really cares about Zoroark despite all the hype built up around her.

Meanwhile Pokemon like Blaziken, Gardevoir, Eevee, Meowth, Gengar and Snorlax, have managed to retain their popularity for decades to the point they're all more popular with Pokemon fans than Jigglypuff, Pichu or Ivysaur at the very least and are arguable on at least Lucario's level. These Pokemon have staying power and it's a shame two of them got skipped over due to Smash not coming out during Hoenn and the rest having to fight with the likes of Mewtwo and Pokemon Trainer due to the percieved 'too much gen 1' arguments.

Zelda has so many characters that, whilst being one offs, have remained popular.
Skull Kid, Midna, and even Tetra and Ghirahim to a lesser degree have all proven to remain firm fan favourites of the franchise despite the majority of their games being decades old now. You could add them to Ultimate and they'd be as well recieved now as they were back during their individual game's releases because people care about the characters. I'm not sure whether the Champions will remain popular right now despite Breath of the Wild's success but time will surely tell.

Lucario and Greninja would likely have stayed popular even without Smash because Game Freak pushes them that darn hard. Lucario got to be a Disk One Nuke in both Black 2/White 2 and X/Y, with the latter set of games also using it as a torchbearer to promote the new Mega Evolution mechanic. As for Greninja, it got to be Ash's ace in the Kalos arc of the anime, and got a pseudo-Mega power-up as a bonus, which then carried over into Sun and Moon.

 

[soviet prince]

They should add characters that weer at least decently prominent and would be unique and colorful additions to the cast.

Pokemon has aced this, even if some people still disagree on Incineroar. But he does stand out and has a lot of flair to him while offering something new to the cast overall. Two electric rats, a pink diva balloon, quick water turtle, dragon, plant dinosaur, ninja frog, wrestler tiger, psychic abomination, and aura based Anubis creature are very diverse and exciting! I hope they keep it up.

Should Stay -
Debateable -
Can Leave -

Overall though, the Pokemon case is one in which the cuts will suck the most cause of how diverse the cast it. Pichu is the only redundant one. Jigglypuff was lucky she got in and probably is the least deserving one. And lastly Pokemon Trainer is part of the over representation argument cause being 3 reps in one. Adding another final stage starter like Sceptille or Gen 8's Grass Starter can cover the main 3 types. Incineroar is more up to debate since some peopled have been pretty jaded to the cat, but I could easily see him being the Pokemon heavy weight if the resource drain of PT is cut out. And I'm of the boat that spreading Gen representation out is better than Gen 1 being all that's really there. But I can see v being pretty up in the air. Maybe even a new/different Fire starter would be a better pick... like Emboar... everyone's favorite.



Fire Emblem does well at adding the prominent characters, but it fails at delivering unique and colorful additions. Four blue haired swordsmen, one red haired swordsman, and 2 white haired magical swordsmen are not very exciting when the series has lances, axes, bows, dragons, horses, mages, and shape shifting people. The issue is that the main characters for the series are very cookie cutter and the more colorful and diverse cast members are all side liners. Very disheartening situation, may be better to add a more popular side liner and not more blue/white haired swordsmen/women.

Should Stay -
Debateable - One of , , or
Can Leave - Two of , , or

Marth is the original, Ike is the most popular, and Robin hails from one of the more popular and recent additions while sporting a unique kit. After that, I feel it'd be better to have more side line or interesting cast members chosen more for what they bring to the table rather than them being the new generic face. I can see a debate to keep one more of the 3 Marth clones at least to keep Roy's semi-clone status alive. Chrom is probably more deserving since Roy really isn't popular in a similar light to Corrin. Corrin being generally and mostly disliked in both fandoms really hurt their spot even if they are more unique than the 3 Marth clones.



Zelda is a mess cause more Links or Zeldas would be terribly boring and the 3 Links are already eye roll worthy. I'd rather see one Link and Sheik (if we get a one off, it should be someone that's not Zelda, Link, or Ganondorf) get axed and we bring in someone like Tingle or Impa who could at least boast they have been in multiple games. I don't care if Americans hate Tingle, he's probably the most deserving one sporting his own little series.

Should Stay -
Debateable - One of or
Can Leave - and One of or

Like Fire Emblem, they made need to dive into side characters with potential rather than filling the roster with the same general guy/girl.



I know little about Xenoblade but Shulk should stay as the face of it and I'd rather take Elma over Rex cause she being more to the table.

yes cut pokemon trainer the one that best rep the pokemon franchise the most

 

[Nepht]

yes cut pokemon trainer the one that best rep the pokemon franchise the most

Red/Ash is the face of Pokemon after Pikachu. Pokemon Trainer's alt Green has a fan base due to how bat**** insane she is. I lost it in Lets Go when she starts hitting you with Pokeballs after the Mewtwo fight thinking your a Pokemon.

 

[Lenidem]

Pokémon is incredibly hard to argue against, it provides us with more character potential than any other series while also having mass appeal beyond any other series in Smash, it's unique and deserves every special privilege it gets.

I disagree. Yes, Pokémons in Smash are excellent characters. But it's like giving one thousand dollars to a man, only twenty to another, and then say 'See? The first guy bought more stuff with his money, that proves that he deserved more'. Just to take Zelda exemples, I think Skull Kid, Tetra, Tingle, Midona, Vaati and Girahim, have as much 'potential' as any Pokémon (they might be less recognizable though).

 

[Arthur97]

Yes, potential alone should not be the only deciding factor.

 

[Quillion]

I disagree. Yes, Pokémons in Smash are excellent characters. But it's like giving one thousand dollars to a man, only twenty to another, and then say 'See? The first guy bought more stuff with his money, that proves that he deserved more'. Just to take Zelda exemples, I think Skull Kid, Tetra, Tingle, Midona, Vaati and Girahim, have as much 'potential' as any Pokémon (they might be less recognizable though).

They have a lot of potential, yes, but it still stands that they lack relevance past their debut game.

You may bring up Sheik, but she's a fluke that was brought in due to a gimmick.

As A Arthur97 said, potential alone doesn't make a character a good choice.

 

[Lenidem]

They have a lot of potential, yes, but it still stands that they lack relevance past their debut game.

I agree for Midona and Girahim (and I don't support them partly for that reason). Vaati appears in Minish Cap and some Four Sword Adventures, I think, but he still is pretty obscure.

However, Skull Kid appears in Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, and Twilight Princess; Tetra stars in Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass, the confidential Treasure Tracker, and is mentioned in Spirit Tracks; and Tingle is in Majora, plays a big role in Wind Waker, appears in Oracle of Ages, is more or less in Twilight Princess (ok, more 'less' than 'more') and has his own spin-off titles. Besides, MM and WW have both been kinda recently re-released.

So there is potential and relevance - but I was only talking about the first, because I don't think that Pokémon has (much) more potential than most other series. I mean, you could very well do a Smash game with a hundred characters that would all be Pokémon, because yes, there is 'potential', I don't deny it. But some of the time and work put into this serie could be put in others without any loss in the global quality.

 

[Quillion]

I agree for Midona and Girahim (and I don't support them partly for that reason). Vaati appears in Minish Cap and some Four Sword Adventures, I think, but he still is pretty obscure.

However, Skull Kid appears in Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, and Twilight Princess; Tetra stars in Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass, the confidential Treasure Tracker, and is mentioned in Spirit Tracks; and Tingle is in Majora, plays a big role in Wind Waker, appears in Oracle of Ages, is more or less in Twilight Princess (ok, more 'less' than 'more') and has his own spin-off titles. Besides, MM and WW have both been kinda recently re-released.

So there is potential and relevance - but I was only talking about the first, because I don't think that Pokémon has (much) more potential than most other series. I mean, you could very well do a Smash game with a hundred characters that would all be Pokémon, because yes, there is 'potential', I don't deny it. But some of the time and work put into this serie could be put in others without any loss in the global quality.

Skull Kid is a bit minor character in OoT and isn't even confirmed to be the same Majora's Skull Kid in TP. Tingle isn't even a fighter, and before you bring up Villager and Isabelle, both of them are main characters, so they have a right to that exception. Tetra certainly has a chance as she's prominent and not a one-shot, but the Adult Timeline games are still long behind us.

These characters aren't exactly relevant either despite them technically not being one shots.

 

[scoobymcsnack]

I have to agree with YoshiandToad about adding who remains popular. Zelda could really use this, as one-shot characters like Midna, Tetra, and Skull Kid remain incredibly popular to this day.

 

[Lenidem]

Skull Kid is a bit minor character in OoT and isn't even confirmed to be the same Majora's Skull Kid in TP. Tingle isn't even a fighter, and before you bring up Villager and Isabelle, both of them are main characters, so they have a right to that exception. Tetra certainly has a chance as she's prominent and not a one-shot, but the Adult Timeline games are still long behind us.

These characters aren't exactly relevant either despite them technically not being one shots.

Then we have to discuss the notion of 'relevance'. Wind Waker HD was released in 2013 and Majora's Mask 3D in 2015: that's not such a long time ago for me. Yes, those are remakes, but it means the characters are in the current gamers' mind. And even so, the 'retro pics' prove that you don't need to be in a recent game to be chosen.

Skull Kid being or not the one we meet in Twilight Princess is a mystery, yes, but even if it's not 'the' Skull Kid, you cannot see this character and not wonder if it's the one you've met in the previous games, so as a gamer you think of him.

And I don't see why Tingle couldn't be playable. He kicks ass in Hyrule Warriors, and Sakurai could very well create him some goofy moves. Why should this be reserved to the heroes and the side-kicks? Besides, we've got a Piranha Plant, a Wii-Fit Trainer, a dog and a duck...

 

[Quillion]

Why should this be reserved to the heroes and the side-kicks? Besides, we've got a Piranha Plant, a Wii-Fit Trainer, a dog and a duck...

Because all of the characters you mention are prominent throughout their respective series. Anyone who isn't a Triforce bearer is either a one-shot or a side character.

 

[Lenidem]

Because all of the characters you mention are prominent throughout their respective series. Anyone who isn't a Triforce bearer is either a one-shot or a side character.

I still don't see why it should forbid us to have fun with a recurrent, recognizable goofy character. And even if there was such a rule as 'real fighters only, except if very prominent', you seem to forget that Tingle is the star of his own spin-off serie. And again, Tingle as a fighter worked well in Hyrule Warriors, he could do just as well in Smash, at the very least.

 

[Arthur97]

Well, Impa can certainly fill the fighter role. I'd be good with Impa. Would probably even buy that DLC.

 

[Lenidem]

Yeah, but if she's a Sheik-clone or an echo, no thanks. The Legend of Zelda has more than enough of those.