How is this game "competitive" ?

[RepStar]

Serious question. I know you can make anything in life competitive no matter how silly it is but, how is SSBU *intentionally* competitive? Theres no combo potential besides extremely basic mandatory stuff like press "A" three times for ness to "punch punch kick" and, thats it. Other combos people consider arent really combos because the game doesnt consider it and or count it AND your opponent can dodge out of whatever pseudo "combo" youre trying to do. From my experience with brawl all of the "combos" were game-breaking mechanics and/or glitches that wasnt a legitimate actual combo beyond the dull "a a a" press. Playing this competitive always comes down to the same **** no matter who you use- spam projectile, spam jump button, spam NAIR attack. Its very basic and too simple and makes me wonder if these devs were torn between making smash a party game or pleasing the sweaties because both ways dont work. Either it is, or it isnt. At this point, the next smash really needs to be a MvC like game or dbz fighterz because keeping your opponent away from the stage and gimping their recoveries all the while doing nothing the entire match but NAIRs and grabs is not legitimate. I tried watching smash competitively and i cant , its baffling.

 

[CruS]

Not sure if trolling but I'll bite.

Street Fighter, arguably the most competitive fighting game out there also has, by your definition, no "combos". I know there are videos of insane combos even in SF, but in any competition combos are mainly 2-3 attacks long. There are true combo strings in smash with 7+ attacks. but the relationship between combo potential and competitiveness to me is irrelevant.

Fighting games, to me, are about zoning, mind games and execution. And Smash has all three, where the execution is probably at the top of the FGC

 

[RepStar]

Not sure if trolling but I'll bite.

Street Fighter, arguably the most competitive fighting game out there also has, by your definition, no "combos". I know there are videos of insane combos even in SF, but in any competition combos are mainly 2-3 attacks long.
The relationship between combo potential and competitiveness to me is irrelevant.

Fighting games, to me, are about zoning, mind games and execution. And Smash has all three, where the execution is probably at the top of the FGC

Lol street fighter definitely has combos, which street fighter are you even talking about. The "combos" in smash are equivalent to three light punches in street fighter. Sf has depth in execution. Bad analogy to compare SF to smash. I didnt do that in my main post for a reason. And combo potential=/=competitiveness i already addressed that in like the first sentence saying anything can be competitive. My question is how is smash one intentionally. And smash isnt balanced enough for zoning when your opponent can fly off the damn screen and, mind games apply to all genres really. Call of duty has mind games.

(Edit: this is to anyone please dont accuse me of trolling , lets not. I already said i was asking a serious question. If youre already uncomfortable from just reading the title alone then please dont "reverse troll" and accuse me because, of your insensitivities of my opinion on a "discussion" forum. Just ignore it, simple. Flame war prevented.)

 

[CruS]

I've played all the SF games pretty rigorously.
Most combos in competitive games are: jabbing or poking trying to confirm into a special. Some characters do maybe a poke into special into super (etc).
Yeah you can pull of some extreme stuff in SF but that's not really relevant to real gameplay. You can also do that in smash... Want to see some combos in smash? Here is a 1 min clip of a peach doing some cool true combos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIUw_fwljpI

How is smash "intentionally competitive"?


There is some kind of online play (hmm)
There is some kind of ranking system
There is a replay function

The ceiling for execution is too damn high. (compared to SF the execution is way harder in smash)
It's fast paced (reaction times are demanding)

 

[RepStar]

I've played all the SF games pretty rigorously.
Most combos in competitive games are: jabbing or poking trying to confirm into a special. Some characters do maybe a poke into special into super (etc).
Yeah you can pull of some extreme stuff in SF but that's not really relevant to real gameplay. You can also do that in smash... Want to see some combos in smash? Here is a 1 min clip of a peach doing some cool true combos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIUw_fwljpI

Thats a convincing video. But does smash have counter attacking(beyond character specials)? And still, when damage gets too high would those combos even be possible, the match eventually becomes an edgegarding fest of gimping your opponent from landing. Hows that fair.

Edit: you think all characters in the game have the same combo potential as peach?

 

[Manonymous]

Thats a convincing video. But does smash have counter attacking(beyond character specials)?

Well, if you perfect shield you can attack your opponent while his animation is still going. That's helpful.

 

[Orlando BCN]

How is Smash competitive, you say? Get your a** handed to you by Hungrybox and you’ll find out.

 

[Christian_CAO]

welcome to smash brothers good sir and/or madam

 

[staindgrey]

Thats a convincing video. But does smash have counter attacking(beyond character specials)? And still, when damage gets too high would those combos even be possible, the match eventually becomes an edgegarding fest of gimping your opponent from landing. Hows that fair.

Sounds like someone's just salty.

Smash Bros. is a competitive fighting game in its truest form, with the added layer of an offstage element. Just because Street Fighter and the like don't have it doesn't delegitimatize a game that does have it. That would be like saying Titanfall isn't an FPS because it has mechs in it.

It has a steep learning curve for technical inputs and tactics. It has a clearly defined rule set and a thriving community of players and audiences. It has combos, chains, mindgames, tier lists, character matchups, counterpicks and a clear indication of who won and who lost with viewers understanding the mechanics that separate pros from amateurs.

If you can't learn how to get back to the stage, this just isn't the fighting game for you. And that's fine. But don't question whether or not it's a fighting game to justify your current inability to play it at a higher level.

 

[fps_trucka]

If you can't learn how to get back to the stage, this just isn't the fighting game for you. And that's fine. But don't question whether or not it's a fighting game to justify your current inability to play it at a higher level.

Yikes lmfao. I agree with your entire comment though. I feel like OP really just needs to watch some high level matches that alone would answer his question. Thinking there are no combo's in a fighting game is kind of a odd thing to imagine.

 

[Orlando BCN]

Yikes lmfao. I agree with your entire comment though. I feel like OP really just needs to watch some high level matches that alone would answer his question. Thinking there are no combo's in a fighting game is kind of a odd thing to imagine.

He comes from Brawl apparently, so...

 

[theadult]

https://youtu.be/8qxVDOc-oV8

 

[Necro'lic]

Here's the thing. ARMS is a fighting game that is competitive, yet it has almost no combos at all. In fact, the game is 90% neutral play. So I'm really wondering if you are narrowing the definition of "competitive fighting game" way too thin to the point where the definition only happens to agree with your already established purview of a competitive fighting game.

In other words, you seem to be making the definition out of you subjective viewpoint.

 

[Luigifan18]

Sounds like someone's just salty.

Smash Bros. is a competitive fighting game in its truest form, with the added layer of an offstage element. Just because Street Fighter and the like don't have it doesn't delegitimatize a game that does have it. That would be like saying Titanfall isn't an FPS because it has mechs in it.

It has a steep learning curve for technical inputs and tactics. It has a clearly defined rule set and a thriving community of players and audiences. It has combos, chains, mindgames, tier lists, character matchups, counterpicks and a clear indication of who won and who lost with viewers understanding the mechanics that separate pros from amateurs.

If you can't learn how to get back to the stage, this just isn't the fighting game for you. And that's fine. But don't question whether or not it's a fighting game to justify your current inability to play it at a higher level.

For the sake of adding on to your point, I'd like to mention that Super Smash Bros. is far from being the only fighting game where being thrown off the stage is a thing; even if we don't count the many, many games that imitate Smash, like Rivals of Aether and Brawlhalla, it's entirely possible to force opponents out-of-bounds in games like Soul Calibur, Mortal Kombat, and Fighter's Destiny, all of which can be considered "conventional" fighting games (well, maybe Fighter's Destiny isn't all that conventional). What makes Smash different from other fighting games is that going out-of-bounds is the primary way to lose (and in most circumstances, the only way to lose).

Yikes lmfao. I agree with your entire comment though. I feel like OP really just needs to watch some high level matches that alone would answer his question. Thinking there are no combo's in a fighting game is kind of a odd thing to imagine.

Technically, the existence of combos in Street Fighter I was a glitch.

He comes from Brawl apparently, so...

Yeah, I think a lot of us have heard about how combo-unfriendly that game was thanks to hitstun canceling.

Here's the thing. ARMS is a fighting game that is competitive, yet it has almost no combos at all. In fact, the game is 90% neutral play. So I'm really wondering if you are narrowing the definition of "competitive fighting game" way too thin to the point where the definition only happens to agree with your already established purview of a competitive fighting game.

In other words, you seem to be making the definition out of you subjective viewpoint.

My guess is that the OP is throwing bait around.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Play Melee.

 

[gritgodx]

I think regardless of how you define a fighting game, combos, etc. The fact remains that all Smash games are absolutely competitive. There is top level play in which the players are executing things which are quite difficult, which can include technical inputs, setups, mind games, combos, edgeguards, etc. There is casual level play too, any casual player would get whooped by a professional player. What about Smash isn't competitive? Just because there are aspects of the game like falling off the edge that Smash has, and other aspects of the game that it doesn't, doesn't mean it's not a competitive game.

The fact that some things don't true combo and you have to execute things like tech chasing and following DI makes it more competitive since players have to work harder for things that might be a given elsewhere.

 

[RepStar]

How is Smash competitive, you say? Get your a** handed to you by Hungrybox and you’ll find out.

Ok then how do i contact him, let me play him. And let me play YOU too. My NNID is the same as my username and id love to play you all. Im always ready for competitivr play so lets do it

For the sake of adding on to your point, I'd like to mention that Super Smash Bros. is far from being the only fighting game where being thrown off the stage is a thing; even if we don't count the many, many games that imitate Smash, like Rivals of Aether and Brawlhalla, it's entirely possible to force opponents out-of-bounds in games like Soul Calibur, Mortal Kombat, and Fighter's Destiny, all of which can be considered "conventional" fighting games (well, maybe Fighter's Destiny isn't all that conventional). What makes Smash different from other fighting games is that going out-of-bounds is the primary way to lose (and in most circumstances, the only way to lose).


Technically, the existence of combos in Street Fighter I was a glitch.

Yeah, I think a lot of us have heard about how combo-unfriendly that game was thanks to hitstun canceling.


My guess is that the OP is throwing bait around.

You guessed wrong. Stop guessing and read the damn thread, i already said i wasnt trolling. How do you handle real life debates , do you say "youre just baiting" in real life? Imagine how stupid youd sound.

 

[staindgrey]

You guessed wrong. Stop guessing and read the damn thread, i already said i wasnt trolling. How do you handle real life debates , do you say "youre just baiting" in real life? Imagine how stupid youd sound.

Imagine if people could see your punctuation in real life.

Also no double posting. Just edit your previous post instead.

 

[Divinity Ryder]

Technically, the existence of combos in Street Fighter I was a glitch.

SF2 it was a glitch. SF1 didn't have combos.....or anything else resembling a modern fighting game.

Speaking of...to the topic at hand. I've played fighting games since SF2 back in the day and Smash is definitely competitive. The very nature of the game makes it so.

 

[RepStar]

Imagine if people could see your punctuation in real life.

Also no double posting. Just edit your previous post instead.

Terrible analogy since you cant see punctuation in real life.

 

[Pyr]

How do you handle real life debates , do you say "youre just baiting" in real life? Imagine how stupid youd sound.

This isn't a debate. Typically, in debates, both sides research the topic they are discussing. Considering all of the following statements are demonstrably wrong, you've not done the requisite research to qualify this conversation as a debate.

Serious question. I know you can make anything in life competitive no matter how silly it is but, how is SSBU *intentionally* competitive? Theres no combo potential besides extremely basic mandatory stuff like press "A" three times for ness to "punch punch kick" and, thats it. Other combos people consider arent really combos because the game doesnt consider it and or count it AND your opponent can dodge out of whatever pseudo "combo" youre trying to do. From my experience with brawl all of the "combos" were game-breaking mechanics and/or glitches that wasnt a legitimate actual combo beyond the dull "a a a" press. Playing this competitive always comes down to the same **** no matter who you use- spam projectile, spam jump button, spam NAIR attack. Its very basic and too simple and makes me wonder if these devs were torn between making smash a party game or pleasing the sweaties because both ways dont work. Either it is, or it isnt. At this point, the next smash really needs to be a MvC like game or dbz fighterz because keeping your opponent away from the stage and gimping their recoveries all the while doing nothing the entire match but NAIRs and grabs is not legitimate. I tried watching smash competitively and i cant , its baffling.

If you'd like to try to initiate an anti-ultimate circlejerk, I recommend Reddit. After reviewing your 85 other posts, I can safely say it's not going to happen on Smashboards.

 

[staindgrey]

Terrible analogy since you cant see punctuation in real life.

You're right. I clearly wasn't thinking when I posted.

 

[RepStar]

This isn't a debate. Typically, in debates, both sides research the topic they are discussing. Considering all of the following statements are demonstrably wrong, you've not done the requisite research to qualify this conversation as a debate.



If you'd like to try to initiate an anti-ultimate circlejerk, I recommend Reddit. After reviewing your 85 other posts, I can safely say it's not going to happen on Smashboards.

This entire topic was about asking a question. This IS the research . But of course you wouldnt know that because you think im a "diabolical troll plotting to initiate a sinister circle-jerk against ultimate".

 

[Nintykid]

Someone hasn't see the dozens of Smash Combos on here or Youtube

 

[TurboLink]

Here is a 1 min clip of a peach doing some cool true combos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIUw_fwljpI

A combo done on a CPU standing still is not exactly impressive.

 

[RepStar]

A combo done on a CPU standing still is not exactly impressive.

Exactly.

 

[Toyamasmash]

Yeah I don’t know what dude is talking, you can chain a mad number of attacks together if you read peoples are dodges and rolls, keeping people in a river of attacks in this game has been one of the most gratifying game experiences I’ve ever had, it’s only been a week in too. Damn give it a little time man, feel free to play street fighter at any time lol.

 

[Pyr]

This entire topic was about asking a question. This IS the research . But of course you wouldnt know that because you think im a "diabolical troll plotting to initiate a sinister circle-jerk against ultimate".

Lol no it isn't. It's presenting a question and answering it for yourself in the body of your post. You're just trying to soapbox. Please don't pretend it's anything else. Frankly it's embarrassing.

 

[RepStar]

Yeah I don’t know what dude is talking, you can chain a mad number of attacks together if you read peoples are dodges and rolls, keeping people in a river of attacks in this game has been one of the most gratifying game experiences I’ve ever had, it’s only been a week in too. Damn give it a little time man, feel free to play street fighter at any time lol.

Chain a mad number of attacks with who exactly? Marth?

 

[Toyamasmash]

Carry some people right off the stage with a bunch of well timed aerials by any of the high flying characters on the roster. Get yo skills up my man! Some serious spamming out there though I think you are right, it’s fun solving how to break those barriers though.

 

[RepStar]

Lol no it isn't. It's presenting a question and answering it for yourself in the body of your post. You're just trying to soapbox. Please don't pretend it's anything else. Frankly it's embarrassing.

Those were statements for rebuttal that i posted within my question. You just have an issue with me and, want this to be something else i.e. a salty troll topic ,so whatever. Idc how you see it.

 

[Arthur97]

It can certainly be competitive, but with maybe the exceptions of Ultimate and Melee, I wouldn't say they are meant to be like some people seem to think.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Thats a convincing video. But does smash have counter attacking(beyond character specials)? And still, when damage gets too high would those combos even be possible, the match eventually becomes an edgegarding fest of gimping your opponent from landing. Hows that fair.

Edit: you think all characters in the game have the same combo potential as peach?

I think the way you're used to seeing competitive fighting is just different. Smash has been unique, from Day 1. Being able to edgeguard and gimp definitely has it's merit, and it just plays into the mold the game set for us in the first place. More "traditional" fighting games have it there way, and will only limited to their respective area. You won't be able to combo opponents in the same way because there isn't always such thing as trapping someone in a corner (something I see in traditional fighting games). These things you mention, aren't "unfair". They're part of what makes the game the way it is.

Smash is very different. Whether it was intended to be a competitive fighter or not, that won't really matter. It's been very competitive to us for years, and I'm sure you've seen how it has grown throughout the years.

 

[Orlando BCN]

Ok then how do i contact him, let me play him. And let me play YOU too. My NNID is the same as my username and id love to play you all. Im always ready for competitivr play so lets do it

Don’t bother asking for my NNID; I stopped playing Smash 4 ages ago. Just hit Hbox up on Twitter and see if you’re lucky.

 

[RepStar]

Don’t bother asking for my NNID; I stopped playing Smash 4 ages ago. Just hit Hbox up on Twitter and see if you’re lucky.

Wtf, Im talking about ultimate. There should be a smashboard hosted arena..i didnt just join this site to not to be able to play ppl here.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

What if I told you...

that games being competitive....

doesn't always relate to their mechanics...

and that trying to equate competitiveness to certain mechanics...

ruins the spirit of competition?

 

[Orlando BCN]

Wtf, Im talking about ultimate. There should be a smashboard hosted arena..i didnt just join this site to not to be able to play ppl here.

You should’ve asked for my friend code; NNIDs are only for the Wii U. I don’t have a Switch yet but I await the day of battle. Don’t play on Wifi.

 

[Necro'lic]

What if I told you...

that games being competitive....

doesn't always relate to their mechanics...

and that trying to equate competitiveness to certain mechanics...

ruins the spirit of competition?

Basically all of this, OP.

Well, I wouldn't go so far to say it ruins the "spirit of competition", but honestly, what makes a game competitive or not literally has nothing to do with the game mechanics themselves, but rather the way players play the game. For example, speedrunning single player games is a form of competition, and it is only a form of competition because the speedrunning players act like it is.

In this light, almost every single game ever made has the potential to be competitive. Maybe you should rephrase yourself.

 

[Alsyght]

Lmao you sounds just like this guy I know who thinks the tier lists aren’t viable and has an ignorant understanding of the game due to his complete voluntary ignorance and ineptitude to understand the game—like you :V

In my honest opinions, Super Smash Bros is one of the most complicated technical fighting games to master and I believe it.9s the reason people enjoy it so much. I know I do. BOY let me tell you that you that I taste the salt from here. Your whole point on how Smash isn’t a competitive fighting game is asinine. You just don’t understand it it. That’s fine. But don’t **** on something because you don’t understand it.

You probably got spammed to death and made this thread out of rage.

 

[S_B]

Serious question. I know you can make anything in life competitive no matter how silly it is but, how is SSBU *intentionally* competitive? Theres no combo potential besides extremely basic mandatory stuff like press "A" three times for ness to "punch punch kick" and, thats it. Other combos people consider arent really combos because the game doesnt consider it and or count it AND your opponent can dodge out of whatever pseudo "combo" youre trying to do. From my experience with brawl all of the "combos" were game-breaking mechanics and/or glitches that wasnt a legitimate actual combo beyond the dull "a a a" press. Playing this competitive always comes down to the same **** no matter who you use- spam projectile, spam jump button, spam NAIR attack. Its very basic and too simple and makes me wonder if these devs were torn between making smash a party game or pleasing the sweaties because both ways dont work. Either it is, or it isnt. At this point, the next smash really needs to be a MvC like game or dbz fighterz because keeping your opponent away from the stage and gimping their recoveries all the while doing nothing the entire match but NAIRs and grabs is not legitimate. I tried watching smash competitively and i cant , its baffling.

The variation in SSB's gameplay loop is what makes it so enjoyable to watch for so many. If you don't enjoy watching it, so be it, but a significant number of people do.

And of course it's competitive. You compete to see who can outdo the other players and SSB has stood on its own as an esport for decades without any help from Nintendo.