How is everyone feeling so far?

HiFiGaming

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#1
Last I played seriously was Brawl, let's say ~7-10 years ago; Diddy was my main. I'm still adjusting to Ultimate's new mechanics, but I seem to be doing the worst with Diddy as of right now, probably because I'm still trying to play him like it's Brawl. It's pretty interesting that the moveset still looks really similar, but the kill moves seemed swapped around a bit; uair doesn't seem to be doing it anymore, but usmash & even the monkey flip are getting kills now.

How are you all feeling so far with Diddy? Any new techs, or just things that you've noticed is or isn't working?

EDIT: On a side note, I just made this account as HiFi because that's the name I use for Twitch and that I used to play StarCraft under, but I just googled it and there's already a competitive player named HiFi in Melee so I should probably switch the name for Smash.
 
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Diddy Kong

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#2
His pummel is crazy fast now, throw to aerial works till semi-high %s. Side B Kick is very strong yet again, F Smash kills earlier it seems. Recovery is still bad, so no edgeguard game probably... I still like Diddy. He's got some minor changes from Smash 4, but his overall kit is still real solid. Seemingly, he's still Top Tier. I don't struggle against any particular character, with exception to Inkling. D Smash also kills yet again, D Tilt to U Smash is not reliable anymore, but we still rack up damage faster than most characters so I'm fine. Diddy's still my main, and that will remain so.
 

W1ZARD

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#4
Haven't played smash since brawl and was a heavy diddy player then. At first I thought diddy really sucked. His bananna got nerfed tremendously, but I'm realizing other parts of him are better. His his air attacks seem even quicker, smashes seem better and his side b is a lot better.

Also, his recovery is WAYY different. I can't decide how much worse it is. Your vertical recovery is very low. However, your horizontal recovery is pretty legit. Can't tell you how many times I killed myself trying to shoot a peanut at someone edguarding me and then died because up b has gives you like no height.
 
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#6
thx for posting this, it's an interesting watch. I'm going to keep practicing with Diddy because I still think he's viable, at least for now, but am also going to start working on Chrom & maybe others so I at least have a few to choose from. Since posting, I've been doing alright online with Diddy, & took a couple matches in a local tournament with Diddy, which I didn't think I'd be able to do yet. [I'm the original poster in the thread, made a new acct. Also thought I'd see if I still had an active account from 8 or 9 years ago but nope]
 

Diddy Kong

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#7
Diddy has cool new options but his air speed being so slow is now really starting to hurt him. We gotta adapt to the more offensive gameplay, because Diddy was benefiting hugely from Smash 4’s more defensive engine.

I feel he’s more of a evasive grappler in this game. His pummel is fast, Down Throw easily leads to any significant aerial attack even till higher %s. And our banana play is more punish based this time. F Smash is real strong, but we lost D Tilt to U Smash, at least it’s way less reliable. Edge guarding is a thing , and we gotta learn to adapt to it.

More soon...
 
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#8
Diddy has cool new options but his air speed being so slow is now really starting to hurt him. We gotta adapt to the more offensive gameplay, because Diddy was benefiting hugely from Smash 4’s more defensive engine.

I feel he’s more of a evasive grappler in this game. His pummel is fast, Down Throw easily leads to any significant aerial attack even till higher %s. And our banana play is more punish based this time. F Smash is real strong, but we lost D Tilt to U Smash, at least it’s way less reliable. Edge guarding is a thing , and we gotta learn to adapt to it.

More soon...
I feel that, though I don't think the peanut gun should be underestimated yet, I've been having a lot of luck with it so far against pretty much any character that doesn't have a projectile that just outright trumps it, especially when used with a banana as well to give your opponent fewer options and you can go in for the punish. I'm also lightly edge-guarding with peanuts too, it mostly just adds some damage and sometimes forces out a shield that I can sometimes punish when they crawl up, but rarely does more than that.
 

Diddy Kong

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#9
I feel that, though I don't think the peanut gun should be underestimated yet, I've been having a lot of luck with it so far against pretty much any character that doesn't have a projectile that just outright trumps it, especially when used with a banana as well to give your opponent fewer options and you can go in for the punish. I'm also lightly edge-guarding with peanuts too, it mostly just adds some damage and sometimes forces out a shield that I can sometimes punish when they crawl up, but rarely does more than that.
Oh I love the Peanut Popgun but it’s just bad a lot of projectiles easily beat it. It’s not a real fast option, but good for chip damage. Charged up, it’s also a nice surprise option for edges. It builds up damage nicely, and we like that as chip damage and loss of momentum for the enemy is beneficial to us.

But since it loses to just about anything, it’s quite situational. I like shooting it as the enemy hangs on the cliff however. That’s how I annoy my enemy often.
 

Toady

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#10
His kill options are very predictable now imo. I still love Diddy of course but I feel like fsmash is getting repetitive, regardless of how consistent it is. Higher percents get a little better. Flying rocket barrel into the ground for the explosion is actually a great option, despite taking a little damage. At the very least it trades with almost everything, so a high damage opponent who doesn’t dodge it will likely die, even if it means you die too. (I’ve been struck by an fsmash upon contact, it still blows up but you still take the fsmash).

All in all I’m sure we’ll find some reliable combos. He’s still very fast. With improved dash dance/general speed in Ultimate, he’s a force to be reckoned with mix up wise.
 

Diddy Kong

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#11
Double B Airs after a D Throw on anything that isn't a feather weight is pretty consistent. At lower %s that is. Mid to higher, I prefer D Throw into F Air. Also, most of our reliable kill options ever since Smash 4's last patch where out of banana. We can throw them further now, and even do kill set ups out of the air. There's also the Monkey Flip Flying Kick, which can kill most around 160% from somewhat near the edges. I like using the Rocket Barrel explosion as a kill set up as well, but I don't prefer it over F Smash honestly. F Smash is pretty great anyway. Rocket Barrel explosion is more situational, or when a opponent has figured you out completely.

Anyway, yes I still think we're good. I only struggle against Mario and Inkling as Diddy, which sort of frustrates me. Heavy weights are also no longer a cakewalk for us. With decreased weight and nerfed recovery, we're dying quite a bit earlier now.

I still love Diddy, Ultimate is really challenging my prior Diddy experience to it's fullest potential. I love how he plays and will continue to main him.
 
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#12
Flying rocket barrel into the ground for the explosion is actually a great option, despite taking a little damage.
I've been toying with this but tend to get punished more than not for doing it. Also been toying with using rockets right before getting hit with the banana by the opponent, which was a go-to mix-up when I played Brawl, but the rockets more-than-not seem to just fly completely away and it leaves me open for a punish. I think I've got one random kill from trying that so far, but a number of punishes. I'd absolutely love safe rocket barrel options though so I'm going to keep toying with it.

Anyway, yes I still think we're good. I only struggle against Mario and Inkling as Diddy, which sort of frustrates me. Heavy weights are also no longer a cakewalk for us. With decreased weight and nerfed recovery, we're dying quite a bit earlier now.
I feel like for me, it's still too early to tell who I'm struggling against because I feel like it's more-so whether or not I'm better than the other person playing than who they're playing at the moment. Had a generally easy time with a ton of Wolf players including one in tournament & never thought of it as a match-up I'd struggle against, but played a few different players in elite last night and lost all of the matches against them pretty decidedly, so I think that's less on Wolf and more on just getting read by better players.

I've pretty consistently struggling with Samus & Zelda so far, and have a generally easy time against sword characters, but that might just be due to my playstyle and having tons of experience against Marth in Brawl.
 

Adam Sanders

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#13
I think his strongest tool is still his banana, does anyone know a safe way to pluck it? since its a bit slower in this game. I try and use the peanut gun to cover me as I pull it, but that only sometimes works.
 
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#14
I think his strongest tool is still his banana, does anyone know a safe way to pluck it? since its a bit slower in this game. I try and use the peanut gun to cover me as I pull it, but that only sometimes works.
I don't seem to get punished at all for plucking the banana. My general go-to is to jump away from the opponent & pluck mid-air, then either jump toward the banana and z-grab mid-air, or ignore the banana as a mix-up and punish them (aerial generally, or monkeyflip) if they try and guard the banana or just think you're going straight for it. Also, just pull the banana after tossing or hitting them away from you or whenever else you're safe. Don't just stand on stage & pull a banana unless you're really certain about it. I have been punished a couple of times because I think that the banana will just hit them immediately when pulled when they're right behind me like it would in Brawl, but the physics here seem to disagree with that, so I wouldn't rely on that working. If you're playing against a hyper-aggressive player that won't even let you run to the other side of the stage & jump off to pull the banana out toward the stage, you could likely punish them for being so aggressive in the first place with things like surprise backwards fsmash out of dash while feigning that you're running to the other side to get a banana out. That's all my take on it, anyways.

This does remind me that when we were talking about match-ups, I have found the Isabelle match-up to be grueling because you can only mix-up the banana game so much until she pockets it, and then (unless there is a tactic to get it back that I'm not aware of) you have to finish her stock to regain the ability to pull a banana again, and Diddy loses so much power without it.
 

Toady

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#15
My phone is not letting me copy/paste for quotes so I’ll just do this Madison Turner Madison Turner and Adam Sanders Adam Sanders

Anyway, about the rocket barrel, yeah it’s totally punishable if you screw it up. You can even punish yourself if you it too close to the egde and fall down helplessly. But I think people are very quickly jumping on the nerf train and overlooking how insanely good it is for horizontal movement. You definitely don’t want to risk it if they’re not high enough % to give you enough space (or kill) but if you mostly focus on horizontally moving across the stage and then sharply veering downward (it doesn’t take a very hard angle to trigger the explosion) right on top of them you can usually get it. If they look like they’re gonna dodge, just keep going straight and maybe do some regular damage. Sticking close to the ground, you’re no less vulnerable than many other attacks when it ends, and with the ability to control the distance so easily I’ve usually avoided punishment for it.

As for the safely pulling bananas, I usually just do what Madison said as well. Diddy can disengage really quickly and easily with monkey flip, and you can’t really punish him jumping *away*. So I jump out with that (or just dash away depending on context) and then pop it out. Grab it in the air with Z, nothing really lost there unless I miss it somehow. Hell, now that it doesn’t disappear on contact anymore, sometimes I do some old Brawl tricks and actually catch people with the toss itself, then grab it and follow up on the ground with a second throw. Becomes predicable if you do it too much but the high toss (don’t hold down after pressing B) can catch people off guard
 
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#16
I got a chance to play a bunch tonight and Y'ALL AIN'T KIDDING about the rocket barrel kills. It's so dang good. You can use it as a mix-up too when recovering, instead of going for the ledge you just go up-and-over the ledge and directly for them as they try and guard you from the stage.
 

Diddy Kong

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#17
New post I made in the K.Rool thread, concerning general advice for playing Diddy in this game:

Am doing fine. Diddy is my only character in Elite Smash. What you need to remember is that Banana options are more diverse this time around.

Forget that shield, you gotta play bait & punish now. Be more of a evasive grappler, Banana throws a longer distance now and you can easily get a grab in whenever you punish someone with Banana Throw. Build up damage by doing double B Airs after a D Throw, and; PUMMEL! It's crazy fast now. Also, you can throw the Banana out of the air to a grounded enemy, and follow up with a Smash attack for the kill. It's good for catching them at surprise!

Also Monkey Flip is still highly usable, the Kick part of it now kills again. So that's good. It can kill around 150% near the edge, unless you deal with anything heavier than say, Link. Whenever at higher %s, D Throw is best followed up with F Air.

F Smash kills way earlier, and it's the MOST reliable KO option, out of Banana it's all but a confirmed kill. It'll be great for the first 2 stocks maybe, but rather predictable on the last one. Don't rely on it too much for players who figure out your plan. Mix up Monkey Flip Kick with the regular command grab when a player starts shielding a lot. Pummel a lot, F Throw and B Throw deal quite good damage and can kill around 200% (you'll need this at times, believe me).

Peanut Popgun is also great for "edgeguarding" on stage. You'll generally want to deal chip damage, any % is good for us.

The Rocket Barrel Jetpack now explodes WAY more reliably as well! This is a great thing, because it gives us a way less predictable KO option. D Tilt to U Smash doesn't quite work anymore, but U Smash can still kill after a Banana Throw. Anyway, Up B kills and crashes way easier. It's a good thing to trade off at times, just arc the Rocket Barrels exactly at the place where your enemy stands when you try to recover and hit the ground with Diddy's head (cruel it seems, but it only does 5-6%).. I call this Kamikaze Kong. It kills mid heavy characters as Mario and Wolf around 155% or so, lighter characters earlier.

So I guess there's your plan. Dash dance, throw out a banana, wait till the enemy is punishable; throw banana -> pummel pummel -> D Throw -> follow up with B Air x 2 or F Air and possibly follow up with Monkey Flip Kick or Peanut Popgun if your enemy allows it, and sort of repeat. Diddy builds up damage like crazy here. A combo like this easily deals 40+ damage, and you'll reliably keep doing damage untill kill % if the enemy doesn't figure you out. F Air is good for edgeguarding, but don't take too high risks. Best to stay on stage most of the time.

It's indeed a bit different to get used to, but believe me. Once you get this new playstyle, you gonna have lots of fun with Diddy. :ultdiddy:

Final words of warning: don't look at the %s and feel comfortable whenever you are in the lead. We are heavily punished with combos and nerfed weight and nerfed recovery makes it easier for the opponent to land KOs. If you can't kill with banana confirms, try Monkey Flip or F / B Throw near ledges.
 

Toady

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#18
Yeah, exactly what I was saying about rocket barrel. Though I *will* say to be careful if you’re doing it right at the ledge cause you could fall helplessly off the edge. You could try and arc over to the other side and blast toward the stage but idk how effective that is (haven’t had a chance to try it yet, just theorizing)
 

Empty Number

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#19
I'm having a really tough time with Diddy. It's gotten a bit better as of late - and I can rack up damage alright - but that's about it. Any player worth their salt knows that the only reliable killing tool Diddy has is fsmash and this seems to embolden them while in turn making my play pretty predictable. Not sure I'm liking it. I look around at other fast combo based characters like Fox, Ness, and Pichu - and I get quite jealous at all the options they have to close out a stock.

I can compete as Diddy, but it doesn't feel creative. Maybe that's a sign that I should shelve him...
 
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#20
I'm having a really tough time with Diddy. It's gotten a bit better as of late - and I can rack up damage alright - but that's about it. Any player worth their salt knows that the only reliable killing tool Diddy has is fsmash and this seems to embolden them while in turn making my play pretty predictable. Not sure I'm liking it. I look around at other fast combo based characters like Fox, Ness, and Pichu - and I get quite jealous at all the options they have to close out a stock.

I can compete as Diddy, but it doesn't feel creative. Maybe that's a sign that I should shelve him...
Some other options for Diddy kill moves include usmash, dsmash (if you read they'll be behind you), utilt, fair, bair into the stage, dair, rocket barrels, fthrow/bthrow near the ledge, and even monkeyflip (& maybe monkeykick?) depending on percentage and if you're near the ledge and where the killzones are on the stage. Fsmash after banana is the most reliable, but there are options. I've personally had the most fun with the rocket barrel landing; you can perform it really quickly, just try and crash either directly into them or right next to them; if they're around %120 (please correct me if I'm wrong y'all!), most characters except heavies will die (they're around %150 or so?). Utilt isn't as quick as Brawl, but is still a good kill move at higher percentages. I like to throw out sliding usmashes (Diddy is the only character I use smashstick for so far) and that sometimes catches people off guard for the kill, particularly if they're on a platform (usmash will reach the battlefield platform, utilt will not). Generally, I tend to play Diddy as a damage machine; try and rack up as much safe damage as possible until most of the moves I've listed will kill, and only occasionally go for a flashy rocket barrel, bair into stage, fair chase off stage, or dair from ledge to mix it up and potentially take a stock early with something you only throw out once or maybe twice in a game or series. Also, I just recommend throwing other random moves out there (even if you're not hitting them, as long as there's no significant lag) and dashing back & forth if only to seem less predictable. Dashing directly at them and then cancelling into a forward-facing fsmash will sometimes catch them off guard as a decent mix-up if you haven't been doing that the rest of the game/series.

With that said, Diddy is just generally pretty slow in this game, which does make it harder to get that kill. I've also started playing with Chrom & Inkling and their dash dances & just general speed is so much farther/faster than Diddy seems to be, which I think makes it easier to be unpredictable. I don't plan on dropping Diddy, but I don't know yet if I'm sticking with him as my main or not. Too early to tell.
 

Diddy Kong

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#21
I'm having a really tough time with Diddy. It's gotten a bit better as of late - and I can rack up damage alright - but that's about it. Any player worth their salt knows that the only reliable killing tool Diddy has is fsmash and this seems to embolden them while in turn making my play pretty predictable. Not sure I'm liking it. I look around at other fast combo based characters like Fox, Ness, and Pichu - and I get quite jealous at all the options they have to close out a stock.

I can compete as Diddy, but it doesn't feel creative. Maybe that's a sign that I should shelve him...
F Smash > Banana is quite reliable. But it can get predictable. Yes those characters seem to have a bit more options, but don't dismiss Diddy yet. There's cool stuff we can do, that they can't. For example near the ledge D Throw into D Air, Peanut Popgun stalling from the stage to under the legde, Rocket Barrel explosion crashes, long range banana punishes, Monkey Flip kills near the ledge (the grab for shields, the kick for punishes / breaking through low priority stuff), and like Madison said, F Throw and B Throw (they only reliably kill from the edges around 160% or so, heavy weights above 200% am affraid).

Lots of things that make Diddy a more interessting option over them for me.
 

Toady

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#22
Luckily throwing the banana to set up a F Smash can be done in a number of ways. At that point it doesn’t matter how predictable the F Smash is because they’re knocked over.

Diddy is definitely a damage chipper. Peanuts are really under estimated by opponents, and even the slightest charge variations give it great mixups in the arc and speed so you can really mess with people and chip away.

Pummel is super fast and does good damage. Aerials are quick even if they don’t kill until later.

Up B comes out really fast so using it with no charge from the stage is good for shaking people off. It’ll knock them back far enough that it’s hard to punish by the time you land, and it’s not an explosion so there’s not much landing lag. To clarify I’m talking about literally just inputting it with a short button press while you’re getting combo’d on the ground. Definitely easier to read the more you do it, but the first few times will be really hard for people to react to, plus it does decent damage too.
 
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GrungeMan

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#23
I really feel like Dair and Nair are super useful, but not often discussed.

I use Nair for unexpected mixups. Sometimes I'll use Nair for hard reads to get a pop up near the ledge and follow with Dair for the spike, which is not consistent, but still something I play around with. Not super reliable, but the potential for Dair I think is there. D-Throw > Dair and U-Throw > Dair can be really useful.

I play a very aggressive Diddy, so I die pretty often from edgeguarding, but in doing so, I do think that there are merits to going off stage and taking those chances. I'm still getting used to Ultimate Diddy, but I think he has the tools for an offstage offense. Using Bairs for stage spikes on recovering characters hasn't been too dangerous at all and well cordinated Dairs at early percents can get you a much needed kill on horizontal recovery characters or characters with bad recoveries in general.
 
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Reila

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#24
I didn't play Diddy much in other games outside of very casual play, but I feel like his playstyle goes along well with the playstyle of my mains (aggressive with lots of jumping and decent air game, plus strong projectile game) so I am picking him up in Smash Ultimate. The one thing that keeps throwing me off is the nerfed up B.

Since I play Isabelle and Villager I am always going off stage to edgeguard (I know you can use the bowling ball with Villager but please? with that recovery you can do so much better) and since their recoveries are godlike I don't have trouble going back to the stage... with Diddy though that is a completely different story, I just don't feel safe going super low to edgeguard, which is a shame. I suppose his old recovery would have been a little too good in Smash Ultimate?
 
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#25
I feel like he’s fun and very effective against players who don’t know how he works. But my gawd when you go against someone who knows your most reliable kill option is a banana and f smash they tend to just wall you out or stay in the air so you can’t trip them at kill percents.

Diddy has some other problems to his edge guarding ain’t that good and is very risky so many times I’ve tried only to get hit out my jet pack on the way back up at low percents and instantly get killed.

Still a fun character though but I wouldn’t pick him if I really wanted to win over several of the other characters
 
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Diddy Kong

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#26
Haven't played since before the new patch. Have we got any significant changes people? I read about a buff in N Air, how it has less end lag now. How is the move now?
 
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#27
Haven't played since before the new patch. Have we got any significant changes people? I read about a buff in N Air, how it has less end lag now. How is the move now?
I haven't noticed a difference, so I think it's subtle enough that either I'm not good enough to notice or it rarely comes into play.

Most of the characters got similar buffs with less end/land lag now, and I feel like that makes Diddy slightly worse because it's slightly tougher to time banana punishes now, but also maybe that's just placebo on my part.
 
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