How does Peach's Down Special work in Brawl?

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't kill me or attack me with an army of geckos or w/e it is you name your programs after. I'm sorry if this is the wrong place to post this but I literally have absolutely no idea where to ask this

I've mained Peach forever and something that has really baffled me is her Down Special (Turnips that is). I've never understood how or why she plucks up different kind of Turnips and even more confusing is the items she can pull up (Bob-omb, Mr. Saturn and a Beam Sword). The Turnips she pulls differ in damage (well most of them do), most notably the Dot Eye Turnip and Stitchface Turnip both of which do a lot of damage and have very good knockback in terms of Turnips

Peach generally has KO issues so getting a strong Turnip or an item is a real blessing and can often win us the match. But actually pulling up something good seems very rare and completely random

I've been trying to find out various ways and methods that might help increase the chance or pulling up something good (I know the Olimars figured out what kind of terrain gives you a higher chance of plucking Pikmin) but so far I haven't found any kind of consistancy or correlation which is why I'm posting here. All I understand is that its got something to do with a Random Number Generator (someone whos a hcking expert kindly did some research for me) so if thats the case, is there a way to abuse it? Could one possibly find a way to pull up say one kind of Turnip consistantly in a normal Brawl match? What exactly determines what she pulls up?

I have no hacking experience whatsoever and I realise to some people I might seem lazy/irritating that I'm constantly asking people about this subject but its something thats been bothering me and I would greatly appreciate if someone could explain how it worked or, even better, looked into it for me or told me how I could look into it myself. Can hacking find out these kind of things? Or is this just doomed to be completely random so the hope of ever consistantly finding a way to pull up a specific item is non exsistant?

Many thanks in advance ^^" Again, I'm sorry if this is the wrong place and I'm clogging up space

 

[AMKalmar]

Peach boards? http://www.smashboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=148

Edit: Sorry, didn't read that last paragraph before posting. Look into SmashAttacks (PSA).
Official Thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=244302
Guide: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=243626

The guide isn't very good but it does explain a little. You can ask questions there and someone might be able to help you. You'll have to open FitPeach.pac using PSA. 115 is the first part of Down Special (in the specials tab).

 

[Dan_X]

As far as I know it's entirely random. I know the hackers have figured a way to control it, even removing the chance of beamswords and bob-oms but it was decided against. I'm pretty sure they know how to manipulate it in any which way they want. I don't know if you've played Brawl+, but you may be interested in one of Peach's more current changes. Her Fsmash use to be entirely random, but that's not the case anymore. Now the first swing of the match is random, and after said swing it cycles through the same three items over and over in the SAME order. This means you can plan which of the three items to hit with, which adds more strategy to her game. The Peach player just has to learn the order and how to keep track of it.

If they can change the random occurance in such way that they have with her Fsmash they can definitely do so with her turnips.

 

[n88]

I'm 99% sure it's just random. The Dojo says there's a 1/58 chance of pulling a Stitchface.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Thanks for the quick responses guys

As far as I know it's entirely random. I know the hackers have figured a way to control it, even removing the chance of beamswords and bob-oms but it was decided against. I'm pretty sure they know how to manipulate it in any which way they want. I don't know if you've played Brawl+, but you may be interested in one of Peach's more current changes. Her Fsmash use to be entirely random, but that's not the case anymore. Now the first swing of the match is random, and after said swing it cycles through the same three items over and over in the SAME order. This means you can plan which of the three items to hit with, which adds more strategy to her game. The Peach player just has to learn the order and how to keep track of it.

If they can change the random occurance in such way that they have with her Fsmash they can definitely do so with her turnips.

The bit in bold - is this for normal Brawl or Brawl +?

And yea the Dojo said it was a 1/58 chance which got me thinking - how did it know that specific chance of pulling that specific Turnip? Surely there must be some kind of system to it

I'm wondering - is there a way to manipulate it without the need for a code? Obviously it might be a bit broken if in an ordinary Brawl match there was a way for Peach to always pull up a Bob-omb but I'm still interested if something like that can be done

Edit: Oh yea, something important I forgot to put in

If: Requirement=Compare, Variable=RA-Basic[2], Comparison=1, Variable=-60000s,
Generate Article/Prop: 2,
Else:
Generate Item(In Hand): RA-Basic[2],
End If

Does this mean anything?

 

[Rykoshet]

Thats for plus

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Oh dang lol, that would have been pretty useful it was for normal Brawl xD

I edited in my last post something I got told a while ago, does it mean anything to anyone? I'm currently trying to get my head around the stuff AMKalmer linked me ^^"

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

This is just how things are coded, Ricker...whatever.

If you don't want to take the time to learn why or what things are, then there's no use of trying to explain or writing out something about it.

You can ask around in the PSA threads though, which is where you should've posted in the first place.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Well this is why I'm posting here - to try and learn about it. I literally know nothing about Brawl hackings, I don't even really know a PSA is. I'm looking at the guide and I'm going to try download the various bits and bats I need so I can look into it myself and stop pestering people

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

Well then for now, go download PSA, open Peach's FitPeach.pac, and look for her SpecialLw. Then look around and start asking in the PSA threads.

 

[Dan_X]

To explain PSA a bit... PSA, or Project Smash Attack is a program written by Phantom Wings which allows you to alter each character's .PAC file. The PAC file is responsible for all things related to said character from gravity, to run speeds, to the speed of attacks, hitboxes, so on and so forth. PSA allows the user to modify most of, if not all of this content. This allows for a ton of creativity allowing for the user to make new moves entirely, editing each aspect of the move.

Most of, if not all of the new characters mentioned in this thread suchs as Primid, Wisp, Geno, Walugi, are built from PSA. Look at one of the many PSA threads.

 

[mofo_]

its some sort of random seed...thingy

 

[Almas]

Computers of any variety have a very hard time generating a "random" number. Instead, they rely on a system of Pseudo-Random Number Generation, where (generally speaking) a "timer" which updates on a very frequent basis is used as the primary means of calculating a number.

Bear in mind that this timer is updating extremely rapidly. We're talking at least once every processor cycle - which happen approximately several hundred times per second. By comparison, a frame occurs 60 times per second. This means that you're very unlikely to get the same value in a noticeable period of time.

To go into more detail (but not too much lest I make a mistake which makes me look silly): On some basis, the timer will be used to generate a number (a Seed). This seed is then saved and a set of calculations are performed on it for every time a random number is desired. To pick a very trivial example: We could use our timer to extract a 4 digit number. Then, every time we wanted another number, we would square our current 4 digit number, pad it to 8 digits long with 0s, then use the middle 4 numbers. E.g:

Number = 4565
Number² = 20839225
New Number = 8392

We would then use this new number to determine the outcome of a result. For example, if something has a 1/100 chance of happening, then if our number is 0000...0009 the event would occur (this is assuming that each combination of 4 digits is equally likely, which is not true in this case. Usually we would perform an operation on our number that ensures the possible outcomes are equally likely).

Because of the possible ways we can treat a number, generally we are able to stick with a seed for a very long time (e.g. an entire match). The operations we perform create a string of numbers which are arguably impossible to differentiate from a "true" random string of numbers, and will be very long in length before it starts repeating itself.

So: to answer your question. If you can force a specific seed to be loaded, and identify the set of conditions which cause the seed to be read (and thus the next random number changing), you can predict with unerring accuracy the outcome of any specific in-game "random" event. However, to perform this in a game would require reflexes in the range of hundredths of a second (with no stimulus), requiring perfect accuracy else it would be completely ineffective (the set of numbers generated by a seed and (seed+1) are radically different), and a brain which can perform arithmetic at the same rate as a Wii.

Unless you think you can pull that off, it's not going to happen.