How do you think Smash 4 could be improved?

[William5000000]

I said this in a couple of threads, but I guess I'll say it here too:

- Off-stage moves for every character force upward Blast KOs (Jigglypuff's Rest, Ness' PK Thunder 2, et cetera).
- On-stage moves (ground/air) for every character force Star KOs/Screen KOs (Jigglypuff's Rest, et cetera).

No unfair losses = everyone happy.

And it's got to be in every stage.

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Now, if there's another thing that can be improved about this game, how about the quality on those crowd chants? Seriously, some of the chants are almost impossible to understand what they're saying when that character is cheered at 100% damage or more.

Also, how about making the crowd chant for that character 8 times like they did in the previous games? Hearing them chant for that character only 3 times is disappointing.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Oh yeah, there's one I forgot: Stage Builder. People complained about Brawl's Stage Builder being too limited, so they decided to limit you further by making it so that you can only draw things? If they want to make a good Stage Builder, they should give you the option of either using the set pieces like in Brawl, drawing a stage like in Smash 4, or both.

 

[Lunanix]

Oh yeah, there's one I forgot: Stage Builder. People complained about Brawl's Stage Builder being too limited, so they decided to limit you further by making it so that you can only draw things? If they want to make a good Stage Builder, they should give you the option of either using the set pieces like in Brawl, drawing a stage like in Smash 4, or both.

Yeah I like this idea, I feel like they definitely could have done more for stage builder as it is very bare bones.

 

[666blaziken]

Smash 4 is already an amazing game. Maybe add free alts on the E-shop. So you could have colors for your main. I wanted black for mewtwo, but i got brown. So add alts. And give all the pokemon shiny forms. It's a no brainer.

#BringMeleeBattlefieldLedgesBack

Wouldn't ledge hogging be unfair to players who started at smash 4? They would have to learn the mechanic. And seriously... Make little mac, worse? You monster.

I am assuming you are talking about my post about changing little mac. My post was about buffing him, not nerfing him. Nerfing his armor and grounded frame data while giving him better air data (slightly) would make him a lot more fun to fight against because you don't have to air camp him, and if he had air combos to grounded ones or vice versa, he would be fun to watch as well. Overall, he would be buffed, but scrubby spammy smash-attack players won't be able to troll others online anymore.

I almost forgot. This is very important for the feel of the game and often overlooked, but being able to gain more momentum if you ran/dashed before jumping would make the game FEEL a lot better. There are so many times where I will use pikachu (in which I use melee pikachu) and I would miss running nair because I don't get enough momentum when I jump.

 

[JoelTheSmasher]

I am assuming you are talking about my post about changing little mac. My post was about buffing him, not nerfing him. Nerfing his armor and grounded frame data while giving him better air data (slightly) would make him a lot more fun to fight against because you don't have to air camp him, and if he had air combos to grounded ones or vice versa, he would be fun to watch as well. Overall, he would be buffed, but scrubby spammy smash-attack players won't be able to troll others online anymore.

I almost forgot. This is very important for the feel of the game and often overlooked, but being able to gain more momentum if you ran/dashed before jumping would make the game FEEL a lot better. There are so many times where I will use pikachu (in which I use melee pikachu) and I would miss running nair because I don't get enough momentum when I jump.

Having momentum in the air would make the game feel amazing. You just kinds slow down now.

Yeah I like this idea, I feel like they definitely could have done more for stage builder as it is very bare bones.

It's kinda weird in this game. I don't like the feel.

 

[FamilyTeam]

Oh, hello! Welcome to the Smashboards, JoelTheSmasher !
Just please avoid double posting in the future, yeah? If you have anything new to add before anyone else replies, just edit your most recent post instead of making a new one.

 

[Stick Dude]

Jigglypuff needs a Jigglybuff.

 

[Pierce7d]

To compliment the new ledge mechanics, players should take bonus shield damage when they slide onto the edge of a platform or stage while guarding. This would make platform pressure and edge pressure more rewarding.

 

[JoelTheSmasher]

I'm downright bad so there isn't much i'd change of core mechanics. Mostly cosmetic.

Eh... We have mods for the shinys.

Dude. Project4M

 

[LancerStaff]

Donkey Kong and Bowser get their actual voices

I really don't understand this. Bowser I don't think people mind so much since he did have the cheesy Godzilla voice in SM64 but with DK fans I've never once heard somebody say they liked his modern voice. It's just painful to hear and isn't remotely like a gorilla.

 

[kinbobbobkin]

I dunno, it would be a moveset change for one and that would be Palutena.(really don't like her current moveset)

I think they should bring back the different victory animations for teams. It's stupid that if you're in a team battle and it's on one victory pose for you and your team mate.

I would add Fourside and (maybe) Big Blue back for good times sake.

More stages for 8 player Smash(it's so hard to fight in GCO and Palutena's stage are too hard to fight because it's sometimes hard finding your character. Why wasn't Boxing Ring allowed? It's a big stage(bigger than Dreamland/Green Green))

Put 2 stocks, team attack and 5 minutes for For Glory Team battles(it would help with the constant trolling that happens, and I think the time is too too short.)

Bring back Pikachu's original thunder(coughcoughpikachumaincoughcough)

Other than that I think this game is fine, I don't think that previous ledge mechanic should be brought back and the speed is fine.

 

[Mr.Seven]

- Ness NEEDS to be nerfed. Mainly his PK Fire, so it can't be spammed as often as it does, and the ridiculous launching power of the PK Thunder 2. Anyone who disagrees with this is wrong.

- A way to play the normal versions of stages without hazards. Omega is great and all, but some stages could be super fun and almost be perfect in the normal form, but the hazard ruins it entirely. Also, Smash 4 needs to cut back on the hazards in general. Some of them are just way too out of hand. Case in point: The Yellow Devil.

- Better online servers. I don't even need to explain that one.

- An option to switch between Japanese and English voices. Also, Marth needs an English VA. Yuri Lowenthal would be great.

- The decloning of Ganondorf. He has SO MUCH to work with, and you decide on Captain Falcon semi-clone. Dafuq.

- Less Gen 1 Pokemon, more Pokemon from other Gens. Were it up to me, I'd have 1 Pokemon representative from each Gen. Six Pokemon representatives, six generations. It's only fair. Sorry Jigglypuff. Sorry Charizard. Sorry Mewtwo. There's 720 of them, you can do better than just Gen 1.

- More Zelda love. Like seriously, I'm baffled as to why Fire Emblem got more love in Smash than Nintendo's second most popular and successful franchise. Nintendo REALLY dropped the ball there.

- Online Squad battles. Team up with an online friend, and duke it out against other teams.

- Get rid of Smash Tour. Seriously, I have yet to meet a person who legitimately enjoys that mode. We got that while the 3DS version got Smash Run? Smash Tour sucks, and should never return... Never.

- Better Tourney mode. Seriously, we had to wait so long and what we got was trash. Seriously, we can't do standard brackets? And it's ONLY online? Fail.

- The Stage Builder needs to be revamped. It got better in platform design, as you can draw it, but it came at the cost of all the tools we had available to use back in Brawl. Why improve a minor detail about the stage builder if you're just gonna cripple everything else about it? Brawl's Stage Builder let me build some fun stages. WiiU Stage Builder isn't even fun. It's a disgrace.


This is the biggun for me:
- A proper Adventure Mode. Sakurai's reasoning behind the lack of an Adventure Mode was laughable AT BEST. Seriously, if someone's reasoning behind a lack of a story mode is "lolspoilers" then some priorities need to be rethought. Hell, I'm not even asking for Brawl-levels of story, or even Melee's Adventure Mode. Take a page from Soul Calibur 2. A series of random battles followed by a rival battle where a cut scene happens showing interaction between two characters. CHARACTER INTERACTION. That's what I want to see!

I want to see how a Mario would react to seeing someone like Sonic saving Peach first, and then Sonic calls Mario out for being way too slow about it. Or Robin and Link duking it out on who is the better tactical fighter. Or Ike facing Ganondorf. Come on Nintendo, interactions like that are a goldmine!

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

What would probably be neat to implement is a boss where after you've taken away most of its HP, it'll create a barrier that can only be damaged by Final Smashes. It would basically be a reference to the Grand Doomer and Magolor boss fights in Kirby's Return to Dream Land, where only super abilities can pierce through their barriers.

In regards to Giga Bowser, Wario-Man, Giga Mac, and Mega Lucario, they would only have to hit the barrier with any of their attacks to damage it.

 

[FamilyTeam]

- Ness NEEDS to be nerfed. Mainly his PK Fire, so it can't be spammed as often as it does, and the ridiculous launching power of the PK Thunder 2. Anyone who disagrees with this is wrong.

Ness really isn't OP, though...
Nowadays, he is at best Top 15. If your problem with him is PK Fire and PK Thunder 2, maybe learning how to counter them would be better than begging for nerfs. Something like a reflector or a Counter would very easily do.

- More Zelda love. Like seriously, I'm baffled as to why Fire Emblem got more love in Smash than Nintendo's second most popular and successful franchise. Nintendo REALLY dropped the ball there.

When compared to FE, Zelda is only really "lacking" in "representation" when it comes to the amount of characters. Zelda still has far more stages, enemies, references, trophies, and I wouldn't doubt music. Even then: Zelda now has 5 characters in this game, and 6 in this entire series (since we lost Young Link), while FE just got 6). Not too shabby.
FE is a big franchise, people. Big in size, and nowadays, it's getting closer to big in name, as well.

 

[JoelTheSmasher]

Jigglypuff needs a Jigglybuff.

Wouldn't a buff be a technical nerf? Too many of her moves have too high knockback to juggle.

#WeWantMeleeRest

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

#WeWantMeleeRest

Unfortunately, that does not solve the problem with the random Star KOs. Jigglypuff would still leave itself wide open for punishment, no matter how strong Rest is.

 

[Mr.Seven]

Ness really isn't OP, though...
Nowadays, he is at best Top 15. If your problem with him is PK Fire and PK Thunder 2, maybe learning how to counter them would be better than begging for nerfs. Something like a reflector or a Counter would very easily do.
.

I know how to counter them. Quite easily in fact, but the fact of the matter is that if it's possible to spam five more PK Fires after being trapped by one (coming from both seeing a partner use it against my enemies and even seeing people being on the receiving end), then there's a problem. If you're saying that shouldn't be nerfed, then you're wrong.

And for the PK Thunder 2, I'm only asking for a slight nerf in launching power. It's like Corrin's counter pre-patch. It can land kills too early, even against heavyweights, at stupid-low percentages.

 

[FamilyTeam]

I know how to counter them. Quite easily in fact, but the fact of the matter is that if it's possible to spam five more PK Fires after being trapped by one (coming from both seeing a partner use it against my enemies and even seeing people being on the receiving end), then there's a problem. If you're saying that shouldn't be nerfed, then you're wrong.

You can always not get hit or just SDI out of the first one... It's not hard to dodge or escape it.

 

[Deleted member]

And for the PK Thunder 2, I'm only asking for a slight nerf in launching power. It's like Corrin's counter pre-patch. It can land kills too early, even against heavyweights, at stupid-low percentages.

Except that it's harder to land and riskier to use than Corrin's counter. Seriously, why are you getting hit with PKT2?

 

[MarioMeteor]

I know how to counter them. Quite easily in fact, but the fact of the matter is that if it's possible to spam five more PK Fires after being trapped by one (coming from both seeing a partner use it against my enemies and even seeing people being on the receiving end), then there's a problem. If you're saying that shouldn't be nerfed, then you're wrong.

And for the PK Thunder 2, I'm only asking for a slight nerf in launching power. It's like Corrin's counter pre-patch. It can land kills too early, even against heavyweights, at stupid-low percentages.

<content redacted>
How about you nerf his back throw, the thing that actually should be nerfed?

 

[FamilyTeam]

If you get hit by PK Thunder 2, you deserve to die, and maybe question your career as a Smash player while you're dying.

How about you nerf his back throw, the thing that actually should be nerfed?

Ow, that is...
very unnecessarily harsh.
No matter how I interpret this, it's still harsh.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

<content redacted>

That's a very harsh statement there. I know that while Ganondorf's u-tilt is slow and very predictable, you can't always avoid getting hit by that attack. The same thing goes for all the other predictable attacks as well.

 

[realmwars]

Honestly aside from maybe a few characters getting some buffs (and maybe find ways to make a more stable online, like immediately booting people whose connection is about 2 bars) I can't think of too many things that can be done to improve the game. There's a number of mechanics that the game introduces that are very useful and the roster is incredible.

Also if I can get in the Ness debate (Seeing as he's a character who I main) yeah Ness is a VERY solid character in many different ways. He has a great combo game, good mix up tools, powerful throws, and a neat projectile game he still has a surprising amount of bad match ups. Literally ANY character who can safely gimp him during his pk thunder recovery already have a plus for the match up. It's one reason he struggles so hard against Rosalina and Villager. Even Palutena can screw him over with not just reflect but her f-smash's wind box. Really when Ness is forced to use pk thunder he is at his most vulnerable and is putting his entire life on that pk thunder ball to get him out of trouble. Get rid of it while he's off stage and that's a stock.

So really I feel the things he can do onstage justify this glaring problem. Because off stage if he's forced to use Pk Thunder it can be VERY dangerous. Plus Ness isn't exactly what I call fast either, he has average running speed at best. On top of that Ness is also a very high risk/high reward character. Meaning a lot of his set ups and kill options can lead to some dangerous situations where messing up can lead to some heavy punishment, but pulling it off can lead to a big pay off. Some of his combos can easily be interrupted by anyone with a decent combo breaker like Mario, and crashing into people with pk thunder carries not only the problems of pk thunder in general but it doesn't do too much shield pressure against a full charged shield AND Ness is wide open for a punish.

So giving him at least ONE safe kill option seems justified.

 

[MarioMeteor]

That's a very harsh statement there. I know that while Ganondorf's u-tilt is slow and very predictable, you can't always avoid getting hit by that attack. The same thing goes for all the other predictable attacks as well.

Ow, that is...
very unnecessarily harsh.
No matter how I interpret this, it's still harsh.

Not die as in actually die, die as in KO die. In hindsight, maybe I worded that poorly. Point is, you shouldn't get hit by PKT2.

 

[FamilyTeam]

Not die as in actually die, die as in KO die. In hindsight, maybe I worded that poorly. Point is, you shouldn't get hit by PKT2.

Not only is it worded poorly, but like I said in my post...

No matter how I interpret this, it's still harsh.

Your original message was already rather agressive to begin with.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Not only is it worded poorly, but like I said in my post...

Your original message was already rather agressive to begin with.

Aggressive or not, it's the truth. You have no one but yourself to blame if you ever get hit by PK Thunder 2.

 

[Mr.Seven]

You can always not get hit or just SDI out of the first one... It's not hard to dodge or escape it.

It's the fact that's it annoying as all hell. I don't care what anyone says, I'm utterly convinced it needs a nerf. I know for a fact I'm not the best, I consider myself decent at the most, but make it so that it couldn't be spammed as easily as it does so often that I've seen on For Glory. I'd even be in favor of buffing some of his weaker attacks to keep him viable if it meant that one move got nerfed with slight more end lag.

Aggressive or not, it's the truth. You have no one but yourself to blame if you ever get hit by PK Thunder 2.

> Automatically assumes I play Smash at pro levels.
> Makes unnecessary cruel post.

Someone takes Smash a tad too seriously. Dial it back some, friend. This is a video game we play for fun in our spare times. None of us are HungryBox or ZeRo.

 

[FamilyTeam]

It's the fact that's it annoying as all hell. I don't care what anyone says, I'm utterly convinced it needs a nerf. I know for a fact I'm not the best, I consider myself decent at the most, but make it so that it couldn't be spammed as easily as it does so often that I've seen on For Glory. I'd even be in favor of buffing some of his weaker attacks to keep him viable if it meant that one move got nerfed with slight more end lag.

I mean, there's your problem already: For Glory. Nobody in real match would even spam it that much. Even in FG, it's not exactly hard to pefect shield or spotdodge out of the way. I won't deny it's annoying, but it's not like it's not doable either.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Aggressive or not, it's the truth. You have no one but yourself to blame if you ever get hit by PK Thunder 2.

Unfortunately, whenever you're doing 4-player bouts, you won't be able to avoid those predictable attacks all the time. Like I said before, as predictable as Ganondorf's u-tilt is, you can't always avoid getting hit by it.

Also, PK Thunder 2 is a Counter opportunity, so you'd actually want the attack to hit you if you want to deliver the counterattack.

 

[MarioMeteor]

> Automatically assumes I play Smash at pro levels.
> Makes unnecessary cruel post.

Someone takes Smash a tad too seriously. Dial it back some, friend. This is a video game we play for fun in our spare times. None of us are HungryBox or ZeRo.

So now you're saying that you have to play the game at ZeRo levels in order to not get hit by PK Thunder 2?

I'm not assuming you're a pro, I'm assuming you're halfway decent at the game.

Unfortunately, whenever you're doing 4-player bouts, you won't be able to avoid those predictable attacks all the time. Like I said before, as predictable as Ganondorf's u-tilt is, you can't always avoid getting hit by it.

Also, PK Thunder 2 is a Counter opportunity, so you'd actually want the attack to hit you if you want to deliver the counterattack.

4-player is different, and I can understand getting Warlock Punched or Jet Hammered or whatever in all the chaos of multiplayer.

 

[Arcadenik]

Just bring back and maybe if they are more like Roy and less like Lucina, if you catch my drift.

And bring back more past stages such as Great Bay, Yoshi's Island 64, Saffron City, Kongo Jungle Melee, Kingdom, Kingdom II, Summit, and Fountain of Dreams.

And make Alph a separate character... he could exclusively use Rock Pikmin to make him play and feel differently from Olimar.

Oh, and fix this little pet peeve... why do I have to set up game rules every time I turn on the game? The game remembers which stages and items are turned off but always returns the game rules to default settings.

 

[JoelTheSmasher]

<content redacted>
How about you nerf his back throw, the thing that actually should be nerfed?

Come on, that's the only thing that makes ness good.

Just bring back and maybe if they are more like Roy and less like Lucina, if you catch my drift.

And bring back more past stages such as Great Bay, Yoshi's Island 64, Saffron City, Kongo Jungle Melee, Kingdom, Kingdom II, Summit, and Fountain of Dreams.

And make Alph a separate character... he could exclusively use Rock Pikmin to make him play and feel differently from Olimar.

Oh, and fix this little pet peeve... why do I have to set up game rules every time I turn on the game? The game remembers which stages and items are turned off but always returns the game rules to default settings.

I would take SoPo

 

[realmwars]

Just bring back and maybe if they are more like Roy and less like Lucina, if you catch my drift.

And bring back more past stages such as Great Bay, Yoshi's Island 64, Saffron City, Kongo Jungle Melee, Kingdom, Kingdom II, Summit, and Fountain of Dreams.

And make Alph a separate character... he could exclusively use Rock Pikmin to make him play and feel differently from Olimar.

Oh, and fix this little pet peeve... why do I have to set up game rules every time I turn on the game? The game remembers which stages and items are turned off but always returns the game rules to default settings.

YOOOO! I would immediately drop Pikachu for Snake if he were to come back.

 

[FallenHero]

Remove the rage mechanic.

 

[Tino]

Bring back and . That is all.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Come on, that's the only thing that makes ness good.

It's also the thing that makes Ness cancer.

It's also bad character design. Besides, it happened to Luigi, who was arguably less deserving of such a thing than Ness is.

 

[realmwars]

It's also the thing that makes Ness cancer.

It's also bad character design. Besides, it happened to Luigi, who was arguably less deserving of such a thing than Ness is.

You do know Ness also as a NUMBER of different short comings right? Especially in his recovery being easy to gimp. Seriously any character who can safely gimp Ness's recovery already has a +1 against him in terms of match ups. Even characters like have an edge because she can either reflect the pk thunder ball away, use the wind box on her f-smash, or even counter. On top of that a lot of Ness's kill moves run a bit of a risk. F-smash is laggy, B-air has to be sweet spotted, d-air spiking is even LAGGIER than F-smash, Pk Flash is very slow and can be reflected or absorbed, up-smash is really bad, pk thunder is his riskiest move due to not only easy to shield but easy to punish out of shield with, and his u-air which arguably is pretty decent if air dodged leaves Ness wide open for characters to knock him away if they have a sexy kick or a move with larger priority in general. Plus Ness doesn't exactly have the best movement speed. His run speed is about average at best. Back throw is Ness's only really safe KO option, and considering he has a number of bad match ups despite being a decently tiered character kind of needs some kind of a safe option. Just be glad got the nerf in his back throw. With his incredible run speed, spin dash, and combo game, and before it was patched could just run right up and back throw you to death.

 

[Arcadenik]

Smash 4 is already an amazing game. Maybe add free alts on the E-shop. So you could have colors for your main. I wanted black for mewtwo, but i got brown. So add alts. And give all the pokemon shiny forms. It's a no brainer.

#BringMeleeBattlefieldLedgesBack

Wouldn't ledge hogging be unfair to players who started at smash 4? They would have to learn the mechanic. And seriously... Make little mac, worse? You monster.

Actually, I'd like SSB5 to add more options to the rules menu.

One of those options would be making ledges be like SSB4 or like before SSB4... and another option would be turning on and off random tripping (off is default, of course)... and another option would be making air dodges work like they used to in Melee or like the current one from Brawl and SSB4... and another option would be turning on and off gliding (I liked Pit, Meta Knight, and Charizard better in Brawl)... and another option would be turning on and off footstool jumps... and another option would be turning on and off the rage mechanic.

Oh, and I'd like Stamina to stop being a Special Smash mode and be one of the regular Smash battle types along with Time, Stock, and Coin. I'd like to play Stamina and when I lose my HP, I lose a stock and I respawn.

Oh, yeah... and I'd like a Kirby Smash mode... it's a new mode that's just like your regular Smash mode except all the characters are Kirbys with their permanent copy abilities. Regular Kirby can still copy the other Kirbys. It's kinda like the Kirby Fighters sub-game in the new Kirby games.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

You do know Ness also as a NUMBER of different short comings right? Especially in his recovery being easy to gimp. Seriously any character who can safely gimp Ness's recovery already has a +1 against him in terms of match ups. Even characters like have an edge because she can either reflect the pk thunder ball away, use the wind box on her f-smash, or even counter. On top of that a lot of Ness's kill moves run a bit of a risk. F-smash is laggy, B-air has to be sweet spotted, d-air spiking is even LAGGIER than F-smash, Pk Flash is very slow and can be reflected or absorbed, up-smash is really bad, pk thunder is his riskiest move due to not only easy to shield but easy to punish out of shield with, and his u-air which arguably is pretty decent if air dodged leaves Ness wide open for characters to knock him away if they have a sexy kick or a move with larger priority in general. Plus Ness doesn't exactly have the best movement speed. His run speed is about average at best. Back throw is Ness's only really safe KO option, and considering he has a number of bad match ups despite being a decently tiered character kind of needs some kind of a safe option. Just be glad got the nerf in his back throw. With his incredible run speed, spin dash, and combo game, and before it was patched could just run right up and back throw you to death.

It does baffle the mind how Ness got ranked so high when he has a large number of cons working against him. And as powerful as his b-throw is, that pretty much means nothing when your grab range is poor, and you lack the speed to catch up with the faster fighters.

 

[FamilyTeam]

It does baffle the mind how Ness got ranked so high when he has a large number of cons working against him. And as powerful as his b-throw is, that pretty much means nothing when your grab range is poor, and you lack the speed to catch up with the faster fighters.

Wasn't it mostly outta results?
Results he doesn't really have anymore...