My friend doesn't even know how to l-cancel but I still find it hard to punish his aerials sometimes as Fox. I try to dashdance to bait out a move and then shnair in but he walls me out with dtilt, jab, ftilt, nair, and fair and whenever I try to capitalize on a fair that isn't l-cancelled I still end up getting knocked away by a jab. Also what are some of the best combos against Marth? I've just been shnair wavedash uthrow'ing him and then running away to play neutral again.
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How do you punish Marth's lag?
- Thread starter zhulander
- Start date
Dolla Pills
Smash Ace
Just run up and shield and shield grab if they can't L cancel
Their attack usually DIs me out of grab range though. Should I hold shield toward them so it DIs toward them?
1000g2g3g4g800999
Smash Journeyman
You can dtilt hit landing. Or dash in and grab after he whiffs. Or dash in shielding to slide into him, holding forward to shield DI in unless you're passing through each other.
Marth sucks up close, as his tipper is what makes him destructive along with his grab and dash dance. Thus, he usually resorts to grabs but since your friend isn't too good, he will not dash dance and will dash grab past you. A bad Marth isn't good at dash dancing well enough to get out of attacks then punish immediately. Stick close and bait grabs, shield his F-smash as it has a lot of lag. When your shield is hit, you probably continue holding shield which isn't good because you can act out of shield much sooner to punish.
You really can't punish his fair as it has so little lag and can be done twice in one short hop which covers a large space in front of him. Since your friend can't L-cancel, you are able to punish it unless he knows to auto cancel it. When you try to shield his fair and still get dtilt away, you can expect an immediate attack; not a grab to come out that is more punishable.
You really can't punish his fair as it has so little lag and can be done twice in one short hop which covers a large space in front of him. Since your friend can't L-cancel, you are able to punish it unless he knows to auto cancel it. When you try to shield his fair and still get dtilt away, you can expect an immediate attack; not a grab to come out that is more punishable.
ZombyDyno
Smash Rookie
You're probably spacing too far away if you're having trouble hitting Marth in between his hit boxes. You need to be just close enough that you can dash jc grab or running shine, but far enough to where you won't be threatened by his fsmash.
I've found that most low level marths will dash when it's time to grab, and usually stand still or jump when it's time to attack. Higher level Marths are a bit harder to deal with because their wd spacing is much better, as well as their patience, so you have to maneuver around and force him to try and read your movement, and punish him at dead angles when he commits to an option.
It's all about spacing in that mu
Another big thing is timing. You want to know exactly the end frames on all of his moves, because with marth, even though his attacks come out fast, they usually have a decent amount of lag between when he can throw out another hit box (most notably is fair, which if you space it close enough you can dd > Nair and pick him apart while he's in the air, similar to what leffen does vs hbox's bairs)
I recommend playing marth vs a good fox to kinda feel out how much of a commitment marth is actually putting in when choosing an option
Edit: wd oos is essential in this mu. Marth either respects it and so you can approach with overshot aerials, or Marth throws out a move to contest and you wd oos. If you think or if they're known to grab, you can do fade back nairs, drill in place, Nair in place, wd in jab to catch his dash in and force an sdi in to a follow up.
I've found that most low level marths will dash when it's time to grab, and usually stand still or jump when it's time to attack. Higher level Marths are a bit harder to deal with because their wd spacing is much better, as well as their patience, so you have to maneuver around and force him to try and read your movement, and punish him at dead angles when he commits to an option.
It's all about spacing in that mu
Another big thing is timing. You want to know exactly the end frames on all of his moves, because with marth, even though his attacks come out fast, they usually have a decent amount of lag between when he can throw out another hit box (most notably is fair, which if you space it close enough you can dd > Nair and pick him apart while he's in the air, similar to what leffen does vs hbox's bairs)
I recommend playing marth vs a good fox to kinda feel out how much of a commitment marth is actually putting in when choosing an option
Edit: wd oos is essential in this mu. Marth either respects it and so you can approach with overshot aerials, or Marth throws out a move to contest and you wd oos. If you think or if they're known to grab, you can do fade back nairs, drill in place, Nair in place, wd in jab to catch his dash in and force an sdi in to a follow up.
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