How do you land shines (mostly against fox and other fastfallers)

[SSG SAX GAMER]

I have trouble connecting shines with falco, I know what to do once i get the shine but usually can't quite land them. I have this probably with all characters but mostly fox/falco. I know about dair shine but I feel like if the dair connects it will push them back out of the range of the shine, also i feel an empty waveshine can be dangerous. Also for a laser shine to work you must laser really close to your opponent, but i always get hit before the laser comes out. What other ways are there for getitng into shine

 

[Dr3amSm4sher]

Aerial into shine at low %. Pretty much all of them will work if they are hit close to the ground. All aerials are subject to cc though. (low Dair into shine is only punishable by fox and falco though even with CC.) Unless your opponent is SDIing the dair away a low dair will almost always connect into shine. It only misses if you do a high dair with full drift and you don't fastfall. (remember falco's shine is pretty small so try to overlap your landing with their character.) There is also utilt at low %'s into shine. (utilt can be cc'd but it is hard to do it.) Dthrow into shine (relies on them missing the tech and not SDIing the lasers). Uthrow into jump shine which ever way they DI. (you have to read SDI vs good people) Dtilt works like utilt but with more lag. Spotdodge into shine (this is the falco classic vs fox) CC into shine is also very good vs just about everyone. Jab into shine works at low percents to DI in but realize this can be CC'd before the shine comes out. Dash attack into shine at higher %s

 

[SSG SAX GAMER]

Dthrow into shine (relies on them missing the tech and not SDIing the lasers)

I like to tech read, I notice that a lot of people try to tech behind you so it's easy to wavedash back a couple of times and shine

Dtilt works like utilt but with more lag.

Really? I though that dtilit had too much lag to get a shine in and they would tech away or it would knock them back too far. Does it only work at a specefic percent range?

ab into shine works at low percents

Do you have to be like right in their face for jab shine?

Also, thank you so much this is life saver for me

 

[Dr3amSm4sher]

I like to tech read, I notice that a lot of people try to tech behind you so it's easy to wavedash back a couple of times and shine

Unless the character has some terrible tech rolls (jigglypuff/captain/lucas) you normally cannot call out their tech rolls with wavedash shine unless they are cut off by the ledge. I normally go with dash dair. BTW you can actually react to lighter characters either missing the tech or tech in place. Vs heavier characters (samus/DK/yoshi??) the shine just hits their tech in place without reacting usually.

Really? I though that dtilit had too much lag to get a shine in and they would tech away or it would knock them back too far. Does it only work at a specefic percent range?

Yeah it works for a pretty specific range for the different fall speeds. 10-15% vs semi floaties (marth) 10-20% vs semi fast fallers (sheik/ganon/lucas??) Like 20-30% vs fastfallers. After those % Dtilt behaves like a longer range shine with a little more endlag. So its really good vs people who SDI dair at the 30-40%. (well fastfallers at least.) utilt into shine is just more guaranteed vs most of the cast. Turnaround utilt into shine works even better.

Do you have to be like right in their face for jab shine?

Sorta, treat jab like a laser with landing lag. jab doesn't have crazy range and shine has even less. Treat it as a shield pressure/combo game mixup. It also can work if they DI your jab in even if the jab looks spaced. If you are crazy technical you can dash jc shine after a jab at higher % and cover no/away di. This also works with laser to extend combos.

 

[BOATMAN]

(I didn't read all that) I had that same issue too, but keep in mind that it has invincibility on Frame 1

 

[AnEnemyMongoose]

(I didn't read all that) I had that same issue too, but keep in mind that it has invincibility on Frame 1

Not in PM. There is no intangibility on frame 1 of shine for either PM Fox or Falco.