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How do you guys approach in neutral?

Faderk

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 2, 2014
Messages
1
Location
North Potomac, MD
One of the biggest problems I've been dealing with recently is approaching safely in the neutral game. When I play lower skilled players I tend to have no problem freely approaching with aerials like Fair Nair and rising Dair. I try to read rolls with these and dash attack and occasionally dash grab. However, I've noticed that when I play higher leveled players I have a very hard time approaching safely. Players that know the matchup well tend to play defensive and sit back while they wait for me to approach on their shield. I find myself getting grabbed a lot and it's really frustrating because I feel stuck at times against skilled opponents as I cannot get in.

So I was wondering what you guys do to approach safely? Grab seems to work fine but Yoshi gets very little off of his grabs and throws, especially against high leveled players.
 

Nikes

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 14, 2012
Messages
1,088
Location
The Forest
NNID
AussieYoshi
When I'm having a hard time getting in or approaching, I'll weave in and out of their range and try to bait something out that's punishable which then creates an opening in their defense, which in turn messes with their head a bit too.
Short hop egg throws in front of where you'll land or on their shield is really good too, as long as you're alert of any anti airs they may have. Actually, short hop egg throw onto their shield followed up by a neutral B is very good for getting through their defenses too, but be aware they may start rolling if they catch on.
 

muddykips

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 4, 2014
Messages
186
Location
NY
NNID
skippykips
3DS FC
3609-1085-1849
i kinda want to add to that eggthrow thing: don't forget that ETS exists. it's extremely good for spacing, but sadly i don't see a lot of yoshi players use it, instead opting to throw eggs in the air where it's really easy to just run under them.

usually the only people i see use it are tap jump users like me, since tap jump makes the process completely natural. but even if you're learning it with tap jump off, we've got a 6 frame jumpsquat, so it shouldn't be hard to get down.

obviously it isn't an "approach", but it can loosen up your opponent, which yoshi needs if he wants to get anything significant in.
 

DJlive

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
79
I normally just wait for openings after doing empty jumps or runs. I try to extend baiting by using egg throw. If they get hit by the egg, that's where I start combos. If not, I sometimes ff then do either fair, Nair, Jab, uair or egg lay depending on the move they do. It's going for the poke damage that can start combos.

You can space fair as well that you retreat it so you won't get shield grabbed, but you have to be wary of characters with disjoints (Diddy, Swordies), super armor (Mac, Charizard) or intangibility (Mario, Luigi, GW) as they will just beat it.

I do a lot of retreating moves like jump back wavebounce egg lay, jump away b-reverse egg lay, running c-bounce egg lay and running retreating nair and run away b-reverse egg toss.
 

Eevee Neill

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 11, 2016
Messages
3
Location
Portland, Oregon
NNID
DaBacon1
One of the biggest problems I've been dealing with recently is approaching safely in the neutral game. When I play lower skilled players I tend to have no problem freely approaching with aerials like Fair Nair and rising Dair. I try to read rolls with these and dash attack and occasionally dash grab. However, I've noticed that when I play higher leveled players I have a very hard time approaching safely. Players that know the matchup well tend to play defensive and sit back while they wait for me to approach on their shield. I find myself getting grabbed a lot and it's really frustrating because I feel stuck at times against skilled opponents as I cannot get in.

So I was wondering what you guys do to approach safely? Grab seems to work fine but Yoshi gets very little off of his grabs and throws, especially against high leveled players.
I play Yoshi as a secondary, and I usually use egg throw and force them to approach. It works against most people I've played. Another thing I do is try to find an opening in their defense, which is usually above them. I don't know too much, so don't quote me haha.
Also, Yoshi's grab sucks and shouldn't be used often; only when you think it's guaranteed and you won't be punished heavily. Neutral b is much better, in my opinion.
 

Mythzotick

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 1, 2016
Messages
421
Location
Ohio
NNID
SKY1ice
3DS FC
2724-0959-8115
:4yoshi: is a character that requires patience and precision from the player when you're in the neutral converting into an advantage state in the match. While Yoshi is a fast character, he doesn't overwhelm you when he is trying to get in when his approach options on shield are kind of unsafe as well as extending his hurt box and has a really bad grab. Now, I said kind of because there are ways around that.


Yoshi has the honor of being the fastest character in the air as well as being able to weave in and out somewhat whenever you're just in the air, or when you're attacking from the air. Before you even start initiating your real game plan against your opponent, you want to get a feel on how your opponent plays or will play. That's where patience comes in to play. By weaving in and out while waiting for the right moment for an opportunity to strike and capitalize on it. But here's the thing though. If your opponent knows the mu and chances are he/she will, they will elect to shield a lot since Yoshi has one of the worst regular grab games in the whole game with some startup and ending lag, bad range for a "tether", little reward, and doesn't have a single kill throw even at really high percents when your opponent should've been gone already. However, Yoshi does have a command grab that is a lot more viable than his regular grab and you can even b-reverse it. The problem though is that it isn't as threatening and viable as his other approach options are and can still be punished. This is where precision comes into play.

Unlike characters that feel natural to play as such as :4mario: and :4cloud:, :4yoshi: can feel awkward to play as to someone who is new to the character. Like I said earlier, Yoshi can weave in and out, but he can also be very tricky to control due to being the fastest character in the air. You've also got to take into account that moves like fair have some startup. When you add all of that together, you realize that you can't just throw out attacks through out the game and hope you land a hit and not get punished. You need to find the right time and range to bait your opponent to grab or attack and punish them as well as taking it further. Mix-ups are a necessity if you want to have success as Yoshi and elevate your skill level. I'm still learning and practicing these options myself as Yoshi is one of the most difficult characters in the game to get good at, but the potential and reward is there I believe. Hopefully this helps out for you. Yoshi is a lot of fun to play as if you get to know the character really well.

EDIT: I'd also suggest you practice your egg throw/up-b game onstage as that is one of Yoshi's more defining traits and can really help annoy your opponent as well as cause set ups and even possibly frame traps. It may be a really hard move to get good at due to manually inputting both the trajectory and launching power as well as not accidentally inputting side-b, but it has a lot of versatility including the option of being able to b-reverse like you can with egg lay/neutral-b.
 
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YoshiYoshi

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 27, 2014
Messages
104
Location
nowhere
I approach with a mixture of F-air and Egg Lay. I try not to approach too much. Better off letting them approach then bopping them with a retreating F-air or SH retreating Egg Lay.

critical edit - I approach by walking towards them. Walking. Watching, Anticipating their reaction. Walking is so important for Yoshi and his dash-to-neutral from hell. Walk up to them ready to spot-dodge, shield, roll, or jump. Don't ram face into shield. Analyze.
 
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Zmac122

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
69
I like to throw eggs and try to get a hit. Then follow with nair.
 

Zmac122

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
69
Mind evaluating at all? What if they shield the egg?
Of course, Sorry for the late reply. Yoshi's main options in approaching for me is a spaced faded back fair. ( hopefully that makes sense. Dash grab( not optimal). B reversing into egg lay ( good for people that shield alot). When they over shield your eggs. Try to get a dair in there or a b reverse egg lay.

I approach with a mixture of F-air and Egg Lay. I try not to approach too much. Better off letting them approach then bopping them with a retreating F-air or SH retreating Egg Lay.

critical edit - I approach by walking towards them. Walking. Watching, Anticipating their reaction. Walking is so important for Yoshi and his dash-to-neutral from hell. Walk up to them ready to spot-dodge, shield, roll, or jump. Don't ram face into shield. Analyze.
I feel like yoshis spot dodge is bad.
 
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