Advice How do you get better?

[Deleted member 189823]

Literally, how do you get better? People always say "practice", but there's clearly something more to it. There comes a point where you're at a certain level and get stuck that way, for years. Me and my friend have been playing since Brawl, and we've always been the weakest link of our group. Fastforward to more relevancy, in Ultimate... we play at least three times a week, and we still only go like 2-2 tournament at our best. It's like it doesn't even matter to practice, when you'll drop everything when it matters (actual tournament), as well as any semblant of coherent thought. You may as well not be any different than someone that goes 0-2 and rolls around the stage.

Like, I don't really get it. That practice is there. It's always been there. If anything, we're the single two playing the most amount of times during the week, and even the people that go Top 5 probably play like once a week. Is there some kind of secret code or rocket science we're missing? Nothing adds up.

I want this to be a discussion, because I'm sincerely out of ideas. Even analising replays might not work since it's like your mind shuts off anyway...

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Like, I don't really get it. That practice is there. It's always been there. If anything, we're the single two playing the most amount of times during the week, and even the people that go Top 5 probably play like once a week. Is there some kind of secret code or rocket science we're missing? Nothing adds up.

It's just my opinion, take it with a grain of salt:

If you're not learning anything from your matches then no matter how many you'll play, you won't get better. Playing with the same training partner often leads to this kind of dead end since you're getting used to counter only one playstyle and only a handful of characters. Here's two 'guidelines' i personally keep in mind for training:

1. Learning the matchups: This is the most important thing to get better in Smash i think. Knowing what you're up against and what your character can do about it are key points to win the neutral game and eventually the game or the set. In order to learn about other characters you can read the theory, watch footage, discuss the matchups with other players, mess around with the character in training mode and/or play online on Quickplay (it has its downsides but you're likely to fight against a wide variety of characters + Ganondorfs ). Things to focus on while learning a matchup (again, imo): identify and learn about the opposing fighter's strongest moves (combo starter, killmoves), identify the situations where your character is vulnerable to those moves, find ways to counter and/or work around those situations, identify the best ways to approach the character (in neutral, what move is 'safer' against this particular character? if you struggle to find an opening, how do you create one?) and the best ways to punish the character (e.g. knowing that characters like Pichu typically have a very low ending lag on their attacks, they must be punished with faster attacks, character with low air speed and lots of landing lag like Snake are vulnerable in the air etc. etc. etc.). In other words, the more you know, the more you can anticipate/shield/dodge/punish.

2. Pinpointing your own weaknesses: Becoming predictable is a common weakness (using the same move to approach, using the same recovery pattern etc.), using laggy moves in the wrong situations is another common one but there's many more. Maybe you developed some 'bad habits' by playing with the same friend over and over (i.e. certain moves and approaches may work on him but not on other players). Basically, once you know what you're doing wrong, it is way easier to improve on that particular aspect. A good mentality to have after getting punished for a mistake is ''i'm not going to fall for that again'' or ''i'm not going to make the same mistake twice'', of course, it's easier said than done but i think it's a good way to look at it.

There's no 'secret' to good training but globally, i think that the quality of your training time is more significant than the quantity. knowledge of the game is equally important than your abilities with a controller and learning should always be the priority over winning (anyways, if you learned enough the wins should come naturally).

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Literally, how do you get better? People always say "practice", but there's clearly something more to it. There comes a point where you're at a certain level and get stuck that way, for years. Me and my friend have been playing since Brawl, and we've always been the weakest link of our group. Fastforward to more relevancy, in Ultimate... we play at least three times a week, and we still only go like 2-2 tournament at our best. It's like it doesn't even matter to practice, when you'll drop everything when it matters (actual tournament), as well as any semblant of coherent thought. You may as well not be any different than someone that goes 0-2 and rolls around the stage.

Like, I don't really get it. That practice is there. It's always been there. If anything, we're the single two playing the most amount of times during the week, and even the people that go Top 5 probably play like once a week. Is there some kind of secret code or rocket science we're missing? Nothing adds up.

I want this to be a discussion, because I'm sincerely out of ideas. Even analising replays might not work since it's like your mind shuts off anyway...

You should probably just resign yourself to the fact that you're bad at smash and will continue to be bad. You don't put in any effort to improve therefore you won't.

 

[xzx]

Stick to your main. Play with it online (as bad as online is) to get matchup experience against many characters. Read about and practice your main's relevant techs and ATs 'til you get them. Apply them to your games 'til they become natural. Watch other players of your main (especially pro players) to see and learn from them. (What worked? What didn't? Why? Why not?) Then play more matches as you now have a new/different perspective of your main. Then practice practice practice, grind grind grind. Getting rid of bad habits is usually better than to gain good ones.

Don't expect this to be a fast process. It will take some months, I guarantee you that. Self-improvement takes time, a lot of it. But everyone can do it.

 

[Sean²]

If you’re not understanding why you are losing, that’s a problem. If you understand why you’re losing, but not changing your gameplay as a result, that’s an even bigger problem. Which is it for you?

What will help you best if analyzing your own gameplay isn’t working, is asking those who beat you regularly what they noticed about your play that they were able to take advantage of. Most people will tell you at least a few things, and if they refuse then they’re a douchebag.

An alternative is posting a match or two where you get blown up on this website and ask for critique. A 3rd party analyzing your matches can help a lot, as there’s no getting lost watching it as if they were the one playing in the match, they can look at it objectively.

 

[MateNate]

I actually made a full training guide to break down things step by step to improve each skill. You could basically use the same formula I gave in it for every little thing you want to get good at.

Unfortunately I can't give a link to it or anything here because this my first post here and I don't want to get banned for advertising

 

[DelugeFGC]

There are literally so many variables to this process trying to go over them all within the span of a single forum post or even a single thread could be.. well quite difficult if not near-impossible. What it boils down to ultimately are what you struggle the most with at the current moment, not trying to perfect every aspect of your play.

Because, here's the thing.. you won't, ever. You may be one of the lucky few to completely perfect ONE aspect of your play, maybe if you're a true god, two.. but that's it. Nobody is perfect across the board, very rarely are people perfect in any one given area. So just remember that going forward and don't be too hard on yourself for not being perfect, because it isn't a realistic goal.

I'm not going to give you specific advice (DM me if you want to go into that, I'll happily help or practice with anyone) or anything, but some things I will say are first and foremost, if you haven't already try to get a handle on what Smash is really about. Not the obvious parts, but how the game works. Learn about things such as neutral state, disadvantage & advantage state and ledge trapping / edge guarding state. Those are all crucial elements to EVERY single game of Smash you will ever play, unless it's Brawl and then maybe it would mostly just be neutral.. but I digress. In Ultimate, like Melee, disadvantage state can be pretty heavy. One mistake (if capitalized on properly with good execution by the other player) can be the result of you eating a combo string that puts you close or in kill %, or outright takes you to the grave of that stock anyway.

It's not AS heavy as Melee, and there's more of a focus on neutral in Ult which I personally like, but it's definitely heavy. So any time you're playing through neutral (the phase were both players are neither at an advantage or disadvantage in the match and have equalish stage control) think about what you do. Don't just carelessly throw out hitboxes and hope they connect. Learn what's safe and what isn't, learn what moves come out fastest and slowest, learn range.. get a real feel for your character(s) kit. Then, go into training (preferably with a human DIing on CPU control mode, and make sure move staling is on) and start labbing out different combos or kill confirms. Not all characters have a heavy focus on combo game and such, but in general it's good to get a feel for what sorts of follow up options you have to capitalize on smart plays in neutral when you go into advantage.

Practice the hell out of your execution, especially if you play characters with tight combo windows and demanding punish game (like Captain Falcon or Ice Climbers) but even if you play a character with relative easy to execute combos and such.. do it. Learn tech such as attack cancels, RAR's, pivot cancels, turnaround tilt cancel NAirs, 10th hit multijab 1-frame invincible rolls, etc etc. There's a ton of tech in this game, mostly due to the complex buffer system, and it seems only more is gonna keep being found as the meta develops. None of it is gonna kill your hands or anything like Melee, but that level of depth is still present, the barrier to mechanically execute it has dropped.. but in some ways with the buffer system the mental aspects have been tuned up. That's more opinion based, but regardless, some basic info there is true and is useful to take into account.

Oh yeah, also, learn the buffer system. Really, it's invaluable. Not only will it stop you from making buffer-related mistakes, but it gives you a new understanding and appreciation for the game that you won't get otherwise. You'll go from often being frustrated by it, to loving it and the things it lets you do. Also always take into account why you lose matches, or even in matches you won think about things like well why did I lose neutral so many times and have to work so hard for it? Always be looking to improve, and just know it's a LONG journey where nobody travels at equal rates.

Otherwise, stuff above posts have mentioned, go to local tournaments, watch youtube videos, etc etc.. and most importantly, PRACTICE.

 

[k1wi]

Just know that it is possible to not practice the right things. Like obviously you could just play smash all day and consider that practicing, however, if you continue to never learn your bad tendencies and never analyze the matches you play, then you’ll more than likely hit a point and just never get better from there.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

I think that there could be something specific to point out, and that's probably my lack of neutral (pretty much). I realise I don't really have much of a neutral, and I just try to dash dance and whiff punish something (usually with Zelda's Dash Attack; Frame 6). It looks worse in practice. A lot of the time I either understimate a person's endlag on an attack and get punished, or I have no idea how they got in my face so fast and certain moves are just weird (i.e Wolf & Ness' Dash Attacks) and I can't shield because **** initial dash dances. I don't think the idea itself is bad, but I just never really execute it properly. Half the time I'm just dash dancing like an idiot and my opponent won't even approach me, and Zelda's Dash & Standing Grabs are just awful.

There's also my disadvantage state, which I started realising has been pretty bad for years. It's only recently I realised (like only a few weeks ago) that I react a bit too early and do stuff which will make me more likely to get punished. I probably gotten somewhat better at avoiding certain things.

I realise I forget about the gameplan after a while, and it seems like I just try to force things and certain combo starters (most of which are unsafe), and that's how I end up where I do.

 

[Knotw]

One thing that applies more to the lower end of the skill spectrum in particular is that you can't expect learning advanced tech to improve you if you can't even use the basic options anyone can easily do properly. Knowing the fundamental advanced movement techniques and practicing your execution and input accuracy as a whole is important, but until your fundamentals are past a certain point all those short hop fast fall aerials accomplish is a slightly less bad version of running right at someone and dash attacking.

Figure out how to use the options you can already consistently perform before adding more. Practicing the movement involved in the more complicated things is still important, but don't just start doing those things in matches until you can see where they would be good to use and why they are good in that situation.

 

[Madison Turner]

"It's like it doesn't even matter to practice, when you'll drop everything when it matters (actual tournament), as well as any semblant of coherent thought."

"Even analising replays might not work since it's like your mind shuts off anyway..."

This seems to me like a big problem. Aside from things like learning the match-ups, analyzing what you're doing wrong, and other things about the game itself, I think you would likely benefit from working on competing in general. Don't necessarily think about it in Smash terms, but in terms of any competitive game, or any competition.

Watching StarCraft II players, for instance, helped me realize that I needed to be less emotional when I'm playing in tournament. Someone like Serral will get up there and show so little emotion while playing for such high stakes, but it really does help; he's focusing on the game and putting all of his practice to work, thinking about each game at a time, rather than putting thought into getting eliminated or who he has to face next in winners/losers or how he's going to lose because X or Y or Z happened. I'm not saying not to have fun, but instead to find fun in focus on the game.

I took first in a local tournament called Ultimate Smashdown in Richmond, which was a tournament where every match was both in front of a large crowd, and was streamed. There were some decent players there, but it was definitely a lower skill level than the weeklies (none of whom were there aside from a commentator), which led to me going in even more confident than usual. I went in with two specific things I wanted to work on:

1) Play Calm: no unnecessary adrenaline during matches.

2) Play Safe: no unnecessary risks or very unsafe moves even when ahead, no autopilot, no unnecessary SDs

These were two things that I needed to work on, so I wrote these exact statements out on social media as the things I needed to work on (and held myself to them). When I won the semi-finals match (the toughest match of the night), it was a last hit scenario, and I eked out the win. I stayed super calm and made sure to continue thinking about the game. When I won, I looked at my opponent, who was physically shaking. I likely won that match due to being in control of myself.

This isn't going to magically make it so you go and win tournaments, but I think it's a necessary & often overlooked part of competitive play.

 

[Tsyo]

I literally thought I was good until I joined public lobbies in the 'glorious smashers' level lobbies.
I joined a semi-pro's room who actually took 3rd place against a lot of players in a recent tournament.
He played Fox and Pichu only.
I got destroyed-- 3 stocked consistently, with his Fox living up to 120%
it didn't only immediately let me know that I actually sucked at Smash, but it instantly taught me what's a BAD move, at certain specific times, and just flat out taught me how to play better. I eventually after 10 matches of solid losing, I learned a few things and started playing slower. I eventually got 2 stocks off of him, which was amazing to feel, but in the end, ultimately (no pun there) I lost.

I was playing Bowser against his Fox. I have 2 replays of it in my vault. Fox's upsmash kills EARLY.

so, in order to get better, better... you must face extremely skilled opponents and really try to gather information from them, the way they are able to punish certain things you're going and really try to change up your strategy. for me, I started blocking more. The Fox player just absolutely had a blast being able to land every single hit on me he wished. Until I started blocking better, and using out of shield options more often. He obviously started spacing me better, and started grabbing me, because I was blocking too much. after that, I'd eventually learn and jump out of shield, or throw a spot dodge or two...

this game is seriously 80% predictions and mind games, while the other remaining 20% is basic game sense.
I'm able to beat my little brother every single time -- because I know his next move. and having played a few Ganondorfs, I now know their routine and the way they operate. They used to destroy me silly.

I have a few friends in my group 5-6 of them all love playing smash, but I'm able to beat them consistently because they're just so predictable and they're constantly asking me "what am i doing wrong? how can I beat you, tsyo?" my response is always "you're too predictable" I honestly don't know another way to explain it, but I just know if they're gonna do a certain thing... one guy in specific always lands high. another guy in specific is always unsafe on shield, leaving the opening to punish.

this is just my 0.02 cents in this matter.

 

[Terotrous]

It's honestly pretty simple. There's basically a 3-step process to getting better.

Play matches against good players
Watch matches of other good players
Reflect on your experiences / discuss with other players about how you can improve your game

Obviously, first you have to practice, but eventually you will start to settle into a certain playstyle, and from here you'll probably find that your skill seems to plateau. This is why you need to watch matches of other good players, to get new ideas. After you see what other people are doing, you need to analyze the strengths and weaknesses of your play and see how you can incorporate new ideas. Sometimes this may require you to take a break from the game for a little while. Then you repeat from the top over and over until you become godlike.

This works for every game, though obviously it's not a quick process if you're just starting from scratch.

 

[DelugeFGC]

Expanding further, these people telling you to go practice and such aren't doing you a single favor. I know I was kind of one of them a bit back, but, just.. listen. This journey can get messy, and we're all just a bunch of losers mashing buttons at the end of the day.. but it can get pretty nuanced.

It can be all the good advice in the world you're being given, but if you don't have the current skill level and knowledge to know what to do with that information, it's pretty worthless. At the end of the day, you can go through and learn a TON of buffer tech and **** like that, practice your execution on short hops and such until you never whiff, never miss techs and etc.. but still have such a garbage neutral none of that mechanical skill can ever achieve you anything because you so rarely get the chance to bring it out. The opposite can be true, where you do quite well on the fly and in neutral but when you finally do land a hit, you're not properly capitalizing on things and/or taking them as far as you can in advantage. That's a HUGE skill, being able to make the most out of your neutral wins in advantage, one of the most important I'd say in a lot of MU's.

For example, if I'm Ganon and I land side B, and you DON'T tech it, I can then hit you with DTilt, dash attack, UAir and FAir all pretty much guaranteed, as hitstun will leave you vulnerable except maybe for 1-2 frames in there. That's your stock. At 0%. At the same time, I can whiff the side B, then punished and then lose my stock for getting greedy or obvious with it. Or perhaps I land it, but they tech the side B and it ****s up the combo. You have CONSTANTLY got to be thinking about and applying this type of stuff to everything you do. Always be on the fly, always be adapting and always be thinking.

Further, make damned sure you know what your character can do (in a general sense) and then start building more MU specific info. You NEED to know what sort of stuff you can use to build damage or confirm kills. Like I'm playing Link, let's say, and you're at like 80%. I just grabbed you, now I know I can DThrow you and hit you with an immediate turn Up B after (which will likely kill you) to finish your stock. Prior to say, let's say I landed an UTilt at 0, now I keep spamming UTilt 3-4 times before getting in some UAirs or FAir/BAir's to rack damage, that's how I would've built that 80% before I went for the DThrow confirm.

Play like this ^. Constantly think of the game like this. Constantly be aware of your options, your opponent's options and get very good at adapting to things on the fly. Practice mechanical execution, and remember, there's always someone out there better than you. Find them.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Expanding further, these people telling you to go practice and such aren't doing you a single favor. I know I was kind of one of them a bit back, but, just.. listen. This journey can get messy, and we're all just a bunch of losers mashing buttons at the end of the day.. but it can get pretty nuanced.

It can be all the good advice in the world you're being given, but if you don't have the current skill level and knowledge to know what to do with that information, it's pretty worthless. At the end of the day, you can go through and learn a TON of buffer tech and **** like that, practice your execution on short hops and such until you never whiff, never miss techs and etc.. but still have such a garbage neutral none of that mechanical skill can ever achieve you anything because you so rarely get the chance to bring it out. The opposite can be true, where you do quite well on the fly and in neutral but when you finally do land a hit, you're not properly capitalizing on things and/or taking them as far as you can in advantage. That's a HUGE skill, being able to make the most out of your neutral wins in advantage, one of the most important I'd say in a lot of MU's.

For example, if I'm Ganon and I land side B, and you DON'T tech it, I can then hit you with DTilt, dash attack, UAir and FAir all pretty much guaranteed, as hitstun will leave you vulnerable except maybe for 1-2 frames in there. That's your stock. At 0%. At the same time, I can whiff the side B, then punished and then lose my stock for getting greedy or obvious with it. Or perhaps I land it, but they tech the side B and it ****s up the combo. You have CONSTANTLY got to be thinking about and applying this type of stuff to everything you do. Always be on the fly, always be adapting and always be thinking.

Further, make damned sure you know what your character can do (in a general sense) and then start building more MU specific info. You NEED to know what sort of stuff you can use to build damage or confirm kills. Like I'm playing Link, let's say, and you're at like 80%. I just grabbed you, now I know I can DThrow you and hit you with an immediate turn Up B after (which will likely kill you) to finish your stock. Prior to say, let's say I landed an UTilt at 0, now I keep spamming UTilt 3-4 times before getting in some UAirs or FAir/BAir's to rack damage, that's how I would've built that 80% before I went for the DThrow confirm.

Play like this ^. Constantly think of the game like this. Constantly be aware of your options, your opponent's options and get very good at adapting to things on the fly. Practice mechanical execution, and remember, there's always someone out there better than you. Find them.

Practice is most certainly not a disservice to someone. If they don't know what to practice or how to practice then that's on them. The biggest factor is that people think that they're putting work in when they're really not. There;s times when you have actual time constraints that limit your ability to practice (work school relationships) but if those aren't an issue then the only problem becomes yourself. If there's no improvement you're not putting in enough time or work. What you put in is what you're going to get out of the game.

 

[DelugeFGC]

Practice is most certainly not a disservice to someone. If they don't know what to practice or how to practice then that's on them. The biggest factor is that people think that they're putting work in when they're really not. There;s times when you have actual time constraints that limit your ability to practice (work school relationships) but if those aren't an issue then the only problem becomes yourself. If there's no improvement you're not putting in enough time or work. What you put in is what you're going to get out of the game.

I was speaking entirely of people telling you to 'practice' but not telling you what to practice. That **** doesn't help anybody, yet it's the most common response. Yeah, playing the game more will eventually increase your skill to at least some degree.. obviously. People love giving others a vague notion of what to do, only to tell them to set off in the direction of 'win' like it's gonna do anything or yield any results.

Telling people to 'practice' is worthless advice, that's the objective reality. Instead, focus on WHAT to practice, and not just vague notions of what to practice either. Work on your neutral isn't any more valid advice than what I just mentioned, because it's literally no different than saying 'git gud' at the end of the day. You need to give people specific ideas of what they should be doing, you need to teach them how to actually do things, not just put up the 'idea' of a goal and slap them on the ass to go off and try.

The amount of people simply telling others to 'practice' and 'work on ____' are a big part of why so many people are asking for help in the first place, and why the skill gap between players you meet online is almost staggering sometimes. Saying it's 'on them' when you try to pretend to be in a position to help someone also just tells people pretty much everything they need to know, to not go to you for advice. Turning people off by acting like a douche is no way to help someone, and that's exactly what saying 'it's on them' is doing.

Not a fan of anything you said, really, my guy.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I was speaking entirely of people telling you to 'practice' but not telling you what to practice. That **** doesn't help anybody, yet it's the most common response. Yeah, playing the game more will eventually increase your skill to at least some degree.. obviously. People love giving others a vague notion of what to do, only to tell them to set off in the direction of 'win' like it's gonna do anything or yield any results.

Telling people to 'practice' is worthless advice, that's the objective reality. Instead, focus on WHAT to practice, and not just vague notions of what to practice either. Work on your neutral isn't any more valid advice than what I just mentioned, because it's literally no different than saying 'git gud' at the end of the day. You need to give people specific ideas of what they should be doing, you need to teach them how to actually do things, not just put up the 'idea' of a goal and slap them on the *** to go off and try.

The amount of people simply telling others to 'practice' and 'work on ____' are a big part of why so many people are asking for help in the first place, and why the skill gap between players you meet online is almost staggering sometimes. Saying it's 'on them' when you try to pretend to be in a position to help someone also just tells people pretty much everything they need to know, to not go to you for advice. Turning people off by acting like a douche is no way to help someone, and that's exactly what saying 'it's on them' is doing.

Not a fan of anything you said, really, my guy.

hey man i'll give you and others the same advice justin wong gave me practice. Not for nothing but there's enough resources out here that people don't need to be spoon fed or have their hand held. But at the end of the day practice is going to be your best way to improve. You can not agree with me as much as you want but that doesn't change the fact that what Im saying is the truth.

 

[Sean²]

I was speaking entirely of people telling you to 'practice' but not telling you what to practice. That **** doesn't help anybody, yet it's the most common response. Yeah, playing the game more will eventually increase your skill to at least some degree.. obviously. People love giving others a vague notion of what to do, only to tell them to set off in the direction of 'win' like it's gonna do anything or yield any results.

Telling people to 'practice' is worthless advice, that's the objective reality. Instead, focus on WHAT to practice, and not just vague notions of what to practice either. Work on your neutral isn't any more valid advice than what I just mentioned, because it's literally no different than saying 'git gud' at the end of the day. You need to give people specific ideas of what they should be doing, you need to teach them how to actually do things, not just put up the 'idea' of a goal and slap them on the *** to go off and try.

The amount of people simply telling others to 'practice' and 'work on ____' are a big part of why so many people are asking for help in the first place, and why the skill gap between players you meet online is almost staggering sometimes. Saying it's 'on them' when you try to pretend to be in a position to help someone also just tells people pretty much everything they need to know, to not go to you for advice. Turning people off by acting like a douche is no way to help someone, and that's exactly what saying 'it's on them' is doing.

Not a fan of anything you said, really, my guy.

You can tell someone to practice. You don't have to hold their hand in figuring out how. Pointing them in the direction of resources can be much more vital than dropping the same general tips in every thread.

Anyone can google "how to get good at smash bros" and find a myriad of resources on how to play the game. Youtube, Reddit, this site, etc. all have tons of tips and will link to other resources as well. I figured it out myself even when Youtube still had very little Smash content, just by watching high level people play my mains in Brawl and trying to analyze and fully understand exactly why they're doing what they're doing in each possible situation, then trying to implement that myself.

If someone asks, I will still give them the general tips I always do, which can help to some degree. I will 100% of the time ask for a gameplay video though, as that's a lot easier to give tips on than just telling them to do something blind. Around 100% of the time though, no one is actually willing to post the gameplay videos to get help, they just want to vent and be frustrated. You very quickly learn the mindset of the player based on their willingness to go the required distance to actually help themselves.

 

[Xquirtle]

I think you're underestimating how much people actually practice smash games. It takes thousands of games for a fresh noob to be even remotely competent at controlling their character in a meaningful / strategic way. I started in brawl as well, and I didn't find out how utterly trash I was until Smash 4 online. It took a ton of losing to even get my win rate to 50%... and I was a very high end ladder player in sc2, LoL, and WoW 3v3. None of those games compared to how difficult it was, and still is, just to stay afloat in smash. It is by far the most challenging game that I've ever tried to get good at. Anyway, my point... is that people at locals are probably practicing smash for multiple hours a day. Consuming strategy content, watching tournies and studying pros etc. Anybody that got good at this game is most likely very dedicated.

If you have bad neutral, then you're basically screwed until you repair it. Nothing else will matter that much if you can't figure out how to win neutral, and your friend is probably conditioning you to have bad habits in response to his bad habits. Grind garbage ass quick play with the intent of finding your opponents habits and staying one step ahead of them. QP sucks for a lot of things, but it'll make you better at mind gaming and reading other players IF you specifically focus on doing that.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

I don't know if there are people significantly better than me where I live. Pretty sure I can beat the best guys over here, so the skill difference isn't really abysmal to make me get a lot better. Maybe just playing different people rather than the same guy over and over will probably make the difference. Even if they aren't a whole lot better than me, I know they're at least less forgiving on making mistakes than my usual partner.

I think I'll make a better job at trying to really understand what's going on in the game when I'm playing. I'm starting to really try to make conscious decisions as to why certain things happen (like why I got punished or why certain read or combo didn't land). I also always had the trouble of not playing as good in tournamaent, but I don't think there's anything beyond that rather than actual practice. You just can't simulate tournament nerves in friendlies, and it's very clear I'm way too comfterble with my usual training partner where I feel I could be 2 stocks down and somehow comeback.

Someone up there mentioned some people are unwilling to post their footage, but I personally didn't think it would do much in this general section. For whatever it's worth, maybe a peek might give people a better idea of where I stand. This actually from just yesterday, against probably our best player:

Is there a name where you know you did everything wrong but still do it anyway?
--
I think the hardest for me is learning to shut and listen. It's like my head is automatically ready to make some sort of response, or an excuse (maybe both). Half the time I know what to do in a situation, but I don't do it... for some reason. I really don't get that part. I'm not really nervous, as most people would think. It's like things are just layed out in a script, and nothing seems to work for me and it looks like a slop. I can't execute anything I actually want, and I just end up looking dumb (as you may see in the above set).

I think there was a whole tournament or two I actually dedicated my time to trying to play as comfterbly as I can (which for me, means somewhat unsafe by nature). I liked how I played that time, in spite not having the same result. Sometimes you just want to win, but winning isn't necessarily always improvement (like in Elite).

 

[Xquirtle]

I don't know if there are people significantly better than me where I live. Pretty sure I can beat the best guys over here, so the skill difference isn't really abysmal to make me get a lot better. Maybe just playing different people rather than the same guy over and over will probably make the difference. Even if they aren't a whole lot better than me, I know they're at least less forgiving on making mistakes than my usual partner.

I think I'll make a better job at trying to really understand what's going on in the game when I'm playing. I'm starting to really try to make conscious decisions as to why certain things happen (like why I got punished or why certain read or combo didn't land). I also always had the trouble of not playing as good in tournamaent, but I don't think there's anything beyond that rather than actual practice. You just can't simulate tournament nerves in friendlies, and it's very clear I'm way too comfterble with my usual training partner where I feel I could be 2 stocks down and somehow comeback.

Someone up there mentioned some people are unwilling to post their footage, but I personally didn't think it would do much in this general section. For whatever it's worth, maybe a peek might give people a better idea of where I stand. This actually from just yesterday, against probably our best player:

Is there a name where you know you did everything wrong but still do it anyway?

Your dash dance gets punished a lot. I guess its more of a back and forth fox trot, but its the same timing and distances every time. Regardless, he dash attacks your dashback multiple times since you are basically zero threat during that window. Facing the wrong way and in dash start up animation. You probably could just stand tehre and press down B instead. and like I don't play Zelda, but the things that she does that are super obnoxious (from my perspective) are down B and neutral B out of shield / neutral B any time i make any slight spacing mistake. You kinda play her like shes Palutena (hint) instead of campy Zelda. now... hes definitely camping you with Ivy, but it seems like you like to go in rather than pressing down B over and over.

You'd also probably massively benefit from grinding combos on random characters in training mode. Seemed like you got in a few times and didn't know your follow ups on PT (even zard). Not trying to be overly critical or anything since you'd probably beat me (lul), but just some things that my small Zelda brain can pick up on.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Is there a name where you know you did everything wrong but still do it anyway?

Stubborn? (''having or showing dogged determination not to change one's attitude or position on something, especially in spite of good arguments or reasons to do so.")

It's like my head is automatically ready to make some sort of response, or an excuse (maybe both). Half the time I know what to do in a situation, but I don't do it... for some reason.

Pretty sure it's a matter of conditioning. Imo, it's possible you've conditioned yourself to respond in a certain way to a point where it becomes an automatism (it can be pretty hard to consciously go against that). Good news is, you can absolutely choose to conditioned yourself to respond in a different way (a most efficient way). For example, if you know you shouldn't rush your opponent with Farore's Wind (a high risk/high reward option) maybe try practicing with that in mind, you can even play some matches with your training partner where you force yourself to not use Farore at all except for recovery (i'm using Farore purely as an example to illustrate my point, idk if it's a good option, my Zelda knowledge is a bit limited). After a while you'll find safer/more efficient alternatives and following some practice/repetition/conditioning, the alternatives should become new automatisms.

Smash being a fast paced game (especially at competitive levels) it's normal to rely on automatisms. The way i see it, it's like playing a musical instrument, you can't play a complex piece of music while thinking about every single movements you need to make, you have to condition yourself to do most of it automatically.

Hope this helps in some way. I think your Zelda is very good overall but as i said, i'm no expert so take it as you will.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

I don't know if there are people significantly better than me where I live. Pretty sure I can beat the best guys over here, so the skill difference isn't really abysmal to make me get a lot better. Maybe just playing different people rather than the same guy over and over will probably make the difference. Even if they aren't a whole lot better than me, I know they're at least less forgiving on making mistakes than my usual partner.

I think I'll make a better job at trying to really understand what's going on in the game when I'm playing. I'm starting to really try to make conscious decisions as to why certain things happen (like why I got punished or why certain read or combo didn't land). I also always had the trouble of not playing as good in tournamaent, but I don't think there's anything beyond that rather than actual practice. You just can't simulate tournament nerves in friendlies, and it's very clear I'm way too comfterble with my usual training partner where I feel I could be 2 stocks down and somehow comeback.

Someone up there mentioned some people are unwilling to post their footage, but I personally didn't think it would do much in this general section. For whatever it's worth, maybe a peek might give people a better idea of where I stand. This actually from just yesterday, against probably our best player:

Is there a name where you know you did everything wrong but still do it anyway?

Yeah, based on the first match, you have no real idea of what dash dancing is for.

Think of your opponent's "danger zone." The area where your opponent can hit you. On the edge of that danger zone, that's where you should dash dance. To make them throw out a move for you to punish it.

Ivy's danger zone is pretty far due to razor leaf. Makes no sense to dash dance at long-range. Stop that. What are you trying to make ivy do?

Also, there's times where you tried to do a combo and finish it with Dair when the opponent is right next to you, or a Uair when the drag-down Nair didn't really work and your opponent is away from you. That shows a lack of knowledge of your character. Play against some punching bags (lvl3 CPUs are what I refer to as punching bags. And they should be treated as such). Feel your characters hitboxes better.

Also, in the beginning of the first match, you provided no threat to the ivy. Ivysaur is spamming leaves and you're dancing. Ivysaur gained a significant chunk of the stage and you're still dancing. Ivysaur was jumping too much for someone that has that Utilt and Usmash. Not to mention Neutral B. Force your opponents to the edge. That's how you really force them to mess up (they can't retreat, and you have a lot of space to retreat and move and weave as round their attacks and baits). Ivysaur did that to you at 0:48. You whiffed a dtilt at the edge, then tried to run and grab because he was pressuring you on the edge.

Walk more. You're not fast, so you're not gonna be really faking anybody out with dash dancing. Initial dashes are okay, but only sparingly. Very sparingly. zard killed you at 4:00 because you went back to doing the cha-cha.

Second match was just a bunch of neutral B and Up B usage in neutral. that's a big takeaway from this match for me. Same cha-cha ing motifs from last match, though decent conversions (needs to be cleaned up still though). Is ftilt a bad move? Is Jab a bad move? On shield, isn't Fsmash safe? Why dont you use the back hit of Dsmash?

If you want to approach your opponent, walking is a viable option. The moves I listed are all less risky than your Up-B, or even Neutral B. You look greedy when using your Up-B to kill. Too easy to punish on shield. Hit them with anything else on the ground.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Yeah, based on the first match, you have no real idea of what dash dancing is for.

Think of your opponent's "danger zone." The area where your opponent can hit you. On the edge of that danger zone, that's where you should dash dance. To make them throw out a move for you to punish it.

Ivy's danger zone is pretty far due to razor leaf. Makes no sense to dash dance at long-range. Stop that. What are you trying to make ivy do?

Also, there's times where you tried to do a combo and finish it with Dair when the opponent is right next to you, or a Uair when the drag-down Nair didn't really work and your opponent is away from you. That shows a lack of knowledge of your character. Play against some punching bags (lvl3 CPUs are what I refer to as punching bags. And they should be treated as such). Feel your characters hitboxes better.

Also, in the beginning of the first match, you provided no threat to the ivy. Ivysaur is spamming leaves and you're dancing. Ivysaur gained a significant chunk of the stage and you're still dancing. Ivysaur was jumping too much for someone that has that Utilt and Usmash. Not to mention Neutral B. Force your opponents to the edge. That's how you really force them to mess up (they can't retreat, and you have a lot of space to retreat and move and weave as round their attacks and baits). Ivysaur did that to you at 0:48. You whiffed a dtilt at the edge, then tried to run and grab because he was pressuring you on the edge.

Walk more. You're not fast, so you're not gonna be really faking anybody out with dash dancing. Initial dashes are okay, but only sparingly. Very sparingly. zard killed you at 4:00 because you went back to doing the cha-cha.

Second match was just a bunch of neutral B and Up B usage in neutral. that's a big takeaway from this match for me. Same cha-cha ing motifs from last match, though decent conversions (needs to be cleaned up still though). Is ftilt a bad move? Is Jab a bad move? On shield, isn't Fsmash safe? Why dont you use the back hit of Dsmash?

If you want to approach your opponent, walking is a viable option. The moves I listed are all less risky than your Up-B, or even Neutral B. You look greedy when using your Up-B to kill. Too easy to punish on shield. Hit them with anything else on the ground.

Like I said, a lot of what I know hardly ever translates to tournament...I'm fairly decent and parrying, and I don't drop my combos as much. If I do a dash grab, chances are it was on accident going for a Pivot Grab (far better in every way).

The thing with the dash dances, completely agree. I want to be able to use it that way, but I never really perfectedm so I just end up looking stupid. But that's something I can likely fix just focusing better (noted not to use against projectiles).

This is trivial, but what about the back hit of D-Smash? I really never see any use in that move when you have safer pokes (or "get off me"s).

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Like I said, a lot of what I know hardly ever translates to tournament...I'm fairly decent and parrying, and I don't drop my combos as much. If I do a dash grab, chances are it was on accident going for a Pivot Grab (far better in every way).

The thing with the dash dances, completely agree. I want to be able to use it that way, but I never really perfectedm so I just end up looking stupid. But that's something I can likely fix just focusing better (noted not to use against projectiles).

This is trivial, but what about the back hit of D-Smash? I really never see any use in that move when you have safer pokes (or "get off me"s).

dash-dancing good requires knowledge of the other character and the opponent. It's based on built-up knowledge. Know the opponent and the character, then use it.

I forgot about the "I forget stuff at tournies" part.

that's muscle memory. Literally only use Ftilt for a match or two to see its use. Use only phantom a match or two to see its use. So on and so on for other moves.

Also, don't throw any moves out sometimes. Literally don't attack. just move around a opponent, but stay around where you think their danger zone is. This is a good lesson for learning other character's options, being present and responsive to other opponents, and knowing how to weave in and out a person's space (which dash-dancing is for).

Back hit of Dsmash isn't a poke, I thinking of it as a trap. I think it should be safe on shield, which would bait people out, which you can punish. Like Fsmash. But Dsmash would whiff first, which makes people react and want to punish, which then they get hit by the back, or they anticipate getting hit by a move, only to get hit by a "delayed" attack, or a numerous other situations. It's a nice mix-up in theory to me.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

I forgot about the "I forget stuff at tournies" part.

no I mean I legit suck more in tournament and can't do anything I actually know how to do. I'm not even nervous, so I don't really understand if the solution is just to play even more tournaments (which is fine by me).

dash-dancing good requires knowledge of the other character and the opponent. It's based on built-up knowledge. Know the opponent and the character, then use it.
Also, don't throw any moves out sometimes. Literally don't attack. just move around a opponent, but stay around where you think their danger zone is. This is a good lesson for learning other character's options, being present and responsive to other opponents, and knowing how to weave in and out a person's space (which dash-dancing is for).

Yeah, I'll try it. I've gotten too comfterble in throwing out attacks thinking it's safe, but it's clearly not always the case. Did this **** since Brawl, believe it or not.

 

[AbsyntheMinded]

For none character specific tips:

- You seem to really struggle to convert your hits into something more meaningful. Extra damage, stage control, anything really. Mostly it's just one offs.
- you're giving your opponent an easy recovery to stage most of the time. i'm not familiar with her edgeguarding game, but you can't just let him recover for basically free every time. Use din's fire when he's out there. If he gets the ledge, set up a phantom to limit his getup options. You have to pressure people's disadvantage state.
- I only saw the first match and a bit of the second, but i noticed almost right away you prefer to jump when you get up from the ledge. The one time you didn't, you just got up, then immediately jumped when you got up. You have to mix that up a bit or you will get read like a book and people will clap your ass right back off stage. Roll in every once and a while, get up attack. or drop then double jump attack onto the ledge.

Zelda specific tips:

- Use Naiyru's love. It's annoying to deal with for the opponent. It breaks chains, deals with projectiles etc. I'm not saying spam it, but at least make them respect that you have it. It's a great 'get off me' move
- Use phantoms. I barely saw any being used. Again don't just spam it willy nilly, but set it up, cover your approach, use it to recover, use it to edgeguard.
- Use Din's fire. Ivy starts off just pew pewing you as you run around and you do nothing in return. You have a projectile, it it's super great, but from that distance you can throw it out, he can't punish you for it, especially if he's just there pew pewing too.
- Basically for zelda specific things. Use your specials more. It seems the only one you use regularly is her up B

 

[Anomilus]

Just finished watching that video and reading most of your excerpts. Not usually a guy to dole out general Smash Bros. self-improvement advice, but I think I can still offer some insight here.

I'm gonna suggest something rather extreme and out there, so keep an open mind about this. This isn't a jab at you either or an attempt to get under your skin. It's just a different perspective you ought to consider. And I may be way off base and looking too deeply into your issue. But maybe not.

I'm also very long-winded, so brace yourself.

. . .

You might need to take everything you currently know regarding Smash Bros. ... and BURY IT!

Yeah I think that's the best way to put it. Trash it, burn it, tear it into little pieces and throw it into the wind. Strongly consider starting from scratch.

Let me explain further using an analogy: You're a swordsman who finds himself at the proverbial bottom of the barrel among your sword-wielding peers. You want to achieve greatness, get out of this slump, and be acknowledged as a respectable swordsman at the very least. So you're inquiring from other swordsman what they do to win. You study other successful swordsman and try and pick up new ideas. You train with friends and acquaintances. You even attend tournaments, but you struggle to apply what you've learned. One day, a random person walks up to you and challenges you to a match. You quickly accept, draw your sword, have full intent to win... and you get disarmed and dropped flat on your back in an instant. You're stunned that you could be taken down so fast. Then you're downright flabbergasted when you realize your opponent was completely unarmed, physically frail, and half your height! What in the heck happened? You can only muster the words "HOW?" This half-pint of a person's response? "My only concern was the sword itself, and you failed to even point it in my direction. Thus the one obstacle in my way was removed with zero effort on my part."

Excuse the lengthy short story. But it has a point. As far as I can tell, at some point the very fundamental core of your play kind of became a mockery of itself. A farce. And it's definitely illustrated in what you and other people have mentioned: That so-called dash dancing. But not just that, but practically everything you were doing in that match seemed like a poor imitation of what Smash player wants to do. You can dash left and right, so you did that. You have an Up Special, so you did that. You have some other attacks, so let's just do that too. And at almost no point in those matches did I believe you actually knew why you were doing that nor were you concerned about your opponent. That goes far beyond tournament nerves. I saw a complete lack of awareness beyond the reach of that Zelda. Not your Zelda. Just "a Zelda".

No game plan, no awareness, no identity, no real goal, no point. You understand juuuust enough to eventually take an opponent's stock. But that's everybody else, and they happen to grasp the "how".

This is why I'm suggesting to start from scratch. It's one thing to know how to play. It's another to know how to WIN. You can't do that by picking up tactics from other successful players without knowing why they do it. You can't throw out attacks for their own sake. You can't fight on equal grounds with any opponent when subconsciously they become a Sandbag that happens to hit back.

But how does one begin anew when they've played Smash Bros. so long??? You'll have to discard everything you believe you know about Smash. The tips you've picked up, the ideas you've integrated into your game, even the character you sought to main. None of it does any good when it's all situated on a foundation of wet sand and water. Proper fundamentals rest upon a strong, sturdy foundation. You can acquire all the knowledge you like (combos, advanced tech, matchup data, dexterity), and then you store that knowledge in a house that crumbles against a light breeze, and then what is it all worth?

Neutral.
Spacing.
Defense.
Advantage.
Disadvantage.
Edgeguarding.
Recovery.
Mix Ups.
Reaction.
Reads.

Rededicate yourself to these disciplines. Start fresh with a fundamental-friendly character. Zelda is not fundamentally friendly. A well-rounded character like Mario is. If not Mario, then somebody similar who's easy to pick up and fairs well in almost any situation (ask around). Convene with your friend, and instead of trying to play like a pro, take things as slow as you can. Start honing yourself and not the character you're using. Question yourself as you play. Question your decisions. Question your friend's decisions. Discover the reason behind your actions, behind your opponent's actions. Explore multiple approaches to the same problem. THINK, don't just act. Acquire patience. Discard hesitation. Prioritize your survival. Prioritize your survival!

...And practice consistently with intention! As already said, it's the quality of practice, not the quantity. But now maybe you're starting to get an idea of what "quality practice" really is? It's sharpening you. Not the character you use, and not the tech you learn. You integrate them into your being, not the other way around. And along the way you're going to discover Your Identity - the very thing that will elevate you past this barrier and towards greater heights. Because now you'll truly begin to play the game instead of trying to "game the game."

 

[Sean²]

I don't know if there are people significantly better than me where I live. Pretty sure I can beat the best guys over here, so the skill difference isn't really abysmal to make me get a lot better. Maybe just playing different people rather than the same guy over and over will probably make the difference. Even if they aren't a whole lot better than me, I know they're at least less forgiving on making mistakes than my usual partner.

I think I'll make a better job at trying to really understand what's going on in the game when I'm playing. I'm starting to really try to make conscious decisions as to why certain things happen (like why I got punished or why certain read or combo didn't land). I also always had the trouble of not playing as good in tournamaent, but I don't think there's anything beyond that rather than actual practice. You just can't simulate tournament nerves in friendlies, and it's very clear I'm way too comfterble with my usual training partner where I feel I could be 2 stocks down and somehow comeback.

Someone up there mentioned some people are unwilling to post their footage, but I personally didn't think it would do much in this general section. For whatever it's worth, maybe a peek might give people a better idea of where I stand. This actually from just yesterday, against probably our best player:

Is there a name where you know you did everything wrong but still do it anyway?

I know I'm late to the party, and I'm the one who asked for a video, but I suppose I'll state what I noticed. I don't play Zelda, so this will be from the eyes of someone fighting against her. And I despise doing so when they're good at it. Since I'm late, I'll keep it to a couple points.

• You're too aggressive
  • The best Zelda players I've faced are beyond campy. You're dash dancing in the face of a character who has really good true confirms and damage output. Zelda's up close options are slow and somewhat committal, and can get you bodied by characters with faster options. Aggressive Zeldas are easy for me to beat as most of my characters, since they let me play the game how I want. Zelda seems to do best with lots and lots of space between her and her opponent, which forces the opponent to have to play the matchup and rely less on fundamentals.
• Where's the phantom?
  • This was the biggest thing I noticed. Every good Zelda I've faced seems to swear by this thing. They use it to cover approaches, ledge trap, and force risky options, as well as some other things. And if you don't have a good reflector, it's beyond frustrating to deal with. None of PT's Pokemon have an option to deal with it beyond hitting it, or hitting you. They have to divide their attention between you and the timing of the phantom that they either need to retreat and give you stage control, or risk paying too much attention to one or the other and eating damage they don't want. Zelda players who underutilize this thing are so much easier to take on.
• You need to break your habits
  • Should speak for itself. Maybe it works against your training partner, but it didn't work on this guy. You were eating hits while dash dancing in his face, and doing nothing to change that, except for the occasional reflect. You were basically letting Ivysaur camp you, which should probably not happen against most characters, let alone Zelda. You could have retreated outside of its range and forced him to approach - being able to force an approach even when you're not in the percent lead is a hot commodity in this game, and Zelda generally has that ability.

I'll be honest, it seems like you should almost be playing another character in the way you like to be aggressive. The way you were using your aerials kind of reminds me of how Palutena players use them.

Oh, and you can simulate tourney nerves in friendlies, just make it a money match. Then you can actually play like you have something to lose, because you do.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

I just feel stuff that I actually and intend to do doesn't seem to look that way. If you watch my match, I look like a ****ing noob that doesn't know to do half the things I actually tend to do. I know my punishes, combos and even reads and punishes most Zeldas aren't actually doing. Whenever people ask me "what about Phantom", it's just not that simple. Good opponents won't really give you the chance to just charge up the full thing in the middle of neutral. And if they can't rush in on you, they'll just not even bother approaching (apparently this is rocket science?).

I at least try to actually to use it where it matters most, which is at the ledge. Fairly new to it, but I still haven't manged to take full advantage of it at a tournament setting.


This last training session, I was really trying to practice my whiff-punish and dash dance game to actually do something with it. It's really hard, and my eyes can only be on my opponent's character (though I suppose that's the point). Tried doing as Baby_Sneak suggested and throwing out less moves, and trying to bait more. Managed to get some degree of success against Fox and Wolf (when he's not using Blaster). If feels kind of campy, in a way. I also started being far more concious about where I get punished in certain instances. For example, my usual training partner always expects me to either land into him to a Smash attack or run in and bait out my own Dash Attack. To this last one, I simply started "overshooting" more (like in VoiD's video) and I pretty much never get hit by that.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Bit of an update,

https://challonge.com/es/smashclub15/standings.html

Finally did something. I got 4th in a tournament, and I actually feel pretty content with the way I played. I beat 2 Top 5 players (granted, one of them went full Joker) and was on stream a grand total of 4 times. I took a bit of a hit in WR4, where I almost won but my opponent came back from a whole stock deficit. Regardless, there was no salt. He really deserved it, as he was also the winner of the tournament.

Something I mention I struggle with, is "playing the way I really do". Just doing the things that come normally in friendlies and the like. One of you mentioned that it felt as if I lacked a lot of awareness, so I've been trying to stay in the game and be present as much as I could. I rationalized pretty much every decision and tried to see if I could tweak things out in the middle of the match. I definitely used a lot more Phantom than in all my other tournaments, but I also started trying to incorporate my dash dance game more effectively. This is something I started practicing last week, and it feels harder than it seems... but it kind of worked for me.

Anyway, I just feel really good. This is certainly a breakthrough. My last two good results were back in Febuary or so, and I got 5th and 7th respectively. I really want to keep it consistent.

 

[Dream Cancel]

Been reading this thread a little bit and I don't think anyone has mentioned this.

What are your goals in Smash? Why do you even want to improve in the first place? What good will that do for you, personally? I ask these because everyone wants different things from competitive Smash.

(You can skip this next section if you want, personal short story)
-----
Personally, my very first goal in Smash was when I was a casual was simply to play a lot because I enjoyed the game. My school only had one set-up, and if you placed 3rd or 4th in a 4-player FFA (free-for-all), then you had to rotate out and give your controller to someone else. I hated that because I wanted to keep playing, so I started searching for online resources for Smash, and that's when I found the competitive Brawl scene.

I answered these 3 questions even though I was a complete noob. 1) My goal in Smash was to simply keep playing, 2) I wanted to improve so I could beat my friends, and 3) it was very rewarding to see the fruits of my labor.

Moving forward, my goals have changed relative to the scene I am in, but my basic motivation has remained the same. I want to simply do the best I could do, and I would be happy no matter if I won or I lost. I did my best and that's what matters to me.
-----

Do you want to be the best local Zelda? Do you want to win tournaments? Do you want to be recognized by your peers? etc. etc. Ask yourself these kind of questions and then shape your actions to meet them. Some things will need to be sacrificed if you want to reach even higher in the competitive scene. Are you willing to commit and go further than you ever have before?

I hope this is helpful to you.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Been reading this thread a little bit and I don't think anyone has mentioned this.

What are your goals in Smash? Why do you even want to improve in the first place? What good will that do for you, personally? I ask these because everyone wants different things from competitive Smash.

(You can skip this next section if you want, personal short story)
-----
Personally, my very first goal in Smash was when I was a casual was simply to play a lot because I enjoyed the game. My school only had one set-up, and if you placed 3rd or 4th in a 4-player FFA (free-for-all), then you had to rotate out and give your controller to someone else. I hated that because I wanted to keep playing, so I started searching for online resources for Smash, and that's when I found the competitive Brawl scene.

I answered these 3 questions even though I was a complete noob. 1) My goal in Smash was to simply keep playing, 2) I wanted to improve so I could beat my friends, and 3) it was very rewarding to see the fruits of my labor.

Moving forward, my goals have changed relative to the scene I am in, but my basic motivation has remained the same. I want to simply do the best I could do, and I would be happy no matter if I won or I lost. I did my best and that's what matters to me.
-----

Do you want to be the best local Zelda? Do you want to win tournaments? Do you want to be recognized by your peers? etc. etc. Ask yourself these kind of questions and then shape your actions to meet them. Some things will need to be sacrificed if you want to reach even higher in the competitive scene. Are you willing to commit and go further than you ever have before?

I hope this is helpful to you.

This is a perfectly valid question, and I feel it applies pretty well to me. I don't care about being the best- but I tend to want to be the best of my character. Not just locally, because that's too easy (and pretty much always there, given how small a community/lower level). I want to be the best Zelda in Ultimate, but I also understand I won't get there by "just" wanting that. People told me I still have to aim high, and that's what I do. I want to eventually beat the best players in the world, and I don't want to settle with doing "okay" against them once or anything like that. Winning eventually became a second nature desire for me, as I understand that's the language most people speak in.

 

[Deleted member]

You should probably just resign yourself to the fact that you're bad at smash and will continue to be bad. You don't put in any effort to improve therefore you won't.

I need to say this since strangely no one else said it:

Not only are you assuming OP doesn't make an effort to improve (Did you even read the whole thing first?), but your first sentence is highly toxic and destructive. Why would you say that? Is this your way of "helping", or did you say this because you felt like it? Either way, it was completely unneeded.

 

[WomenRespecter64]

The real way to get better at smash is practice. It probably says that in every comment and you are probably tired of reading it. Well there is a bit more to it than just playing. If you want to improve in competitive smash, it is always a great idea to play with someone who is just as good as you if not a little bit better. It's like lifting weights. You don't want to lift an entire truck and you don't want to lift up loaves of bread. Many pros have one or more persons that are about as good as them. These people are called sparring partners. If you have a main, look up some tournament matches with that character and look for some combos they do. Play your friend and if he wins, ask him what he can notice about your playstyle.

 

[Crystanium]

You might also want to ask yourself how people have praised you throughout your life. Have you been praised for your effort or for how talented you are? Try to think about this because it will determine how you respond to loss.

 

[digbick36]

Literally, how do you get better? People always say "practice", but there's clearly something more to it. There comes a point where you're at a certain level and get stuck that way, for years. Me and my friend have been playing since Brawl, and we've always been the weakest link of our group. Fastforward to more relevancy, in Ultimate... we play at least three times a week, and we still only go like 2-2 tournament at our best. It's like it doesn't even matter to practice, when you'll drop everything when it matters (actual tournament), as well as any semblant of coherent thought. You may as well not be any different than someone that goes 0-2 and rolls around the stage.

Like, I don't really get it. That practice is there. It's always been there. If anything, we're the single two playing the most amount of times during the week, and even the people that go Top 5 probably play like once a week. Is there some kind of secret code or rocket science we're missing? Nothing adds up.

I want this to be a discussion, because I'm sincerely out of ideas. Even analising replays might not work since it's like your mind shuts off anyway...

Just play through losses. Rematch people who wreck you again and again. I see a lot of people reject a rematch when they get manhandled just once.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

You might also want to ask yourself how people have praised you throughout your life. Have you been praised for your effort or for how talented you are? Try to think about this because it will determine how you respond to loss.

Just take a look at the guy's name; it's obvious he's not here for any helpful reason. I just found it easy to ignore, and I recommend the same.

Regardless, thank you for feeling the need to step up.

I need to say this since strangely no one else said it:

Not only are you assuming OP doesn't make an effort to improve (Did you even read the whole thing first?), but your first sentence is highly toxic and destructive. Why would you say that? Is this your way of "helping", or did you say this because you felt like it? Either way, it was completely unneeded.

I don't know what you mean by that, but I'm really curious as to what you mean.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't know what you mean by that, but I'm really curious as to what you mean.

If someone asks for help on how to git gud, answering with "forget it, you'll always suck because you don't care" is unhelpful and just rude.

I also believe some people get pleasure from being rude, which is disgusting.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

I've been doing far better lately than I was when I posted this. I'm starting to get within Top 5 placings in my weeklies with some consistency. This is a noticeable buff off of 9th-13th consistent placings back then. My results are definitely better, but I don't always like the way I'm playing. I never feel like I'm playing the way I know I can, and I just end up looking dumb. You have a vision in your head, and I don't know why it's so damn hard to manifest it. It's not rocket science, and neither is it some TAS-level tech skill.

What I want to do is to simply be able to do what I actually want to do. I'm the guy trying to bait something out with a Dash Dance and end up getting clipped by some braindead dash attack for it.

I think today is like the 5th times I reached Winners Semis, and I'm still losing to the same guy. Missed a Pivot Grab like 5 times in a row. Stuff like that happens as if my hands decide to stop working even though I'm not even nervous.