How do YOU define camping?

[forward]

So this came up in PP's thread and it got me thinking...

I'm talking about lasering to force approaches ON YOUR TERMS, which is what they used to say projectiles are all about in a way(forcing someone into a position on your terms). What I mean by that is someone has to come to you because your character or you as a player abuse your projectiles better but in a way that forces the opponent to only come to you/begin approaching at certain angles/timings. THAT's what camping should be about and what I haven't seen happen in forever.

My Response

IMO, if someone is approaching you on your terms then it is not really camping. This could just be semantics but camping is a vague word to describe a wide variety of strategies. When I think of camping I think of the person approaching you on their terms and you counter their approach.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

So what do you guys think? How do you define camping? Is camping defined by your spacing? Is it defined by your movement? Is it making your opponent miss a move and then punishing?

Considering a sport like football, being on defense is not having possession of the ball. In this time, the team is trying to keep their opponent from scoring, i.e. gaining a lead, reducing the defending team's lead, preventing a larger lead by the offensive team, getting closer to winning, etc. I think it is fair to say that in Melee, defense is lowering your opponents hit % (accuracy) through movement and reducing damage once it begins (damage control) by DI (I'm not sure which category shields, rolls, and dodges would fit in. I'm leaning towards movement). In this sense, defense has nothing to do with gaining points yourself and only limiting your opponents.

I think most people would agree on defining camping as a form of defense, though I could be wrong. From my previous statements, I would say that it is impossible to win on defense alone because it does not involve gaining any points (%, stocks) yourself. This is unless you consider "counter-attacks" as defense. But is a counter attack a form of defense or is it actually just a well timed attack? Or both?

By my response to PP I said I consider counter attacking to be camping. However, I'm starting to doubt that given where the term camping came from. I don't play FPS games competitively but I'm 99% sure the term camping came from that genre to describe people who do not move their character and pick people off from a distance or as they run by.

Given that, I'd say the term "camping" to describe a strategy in Melee is a highly subjective term that means different things to different people. So I ask, how do you define camping?

 

[Cactuar]

Camping is an excessive avoidance of establishing neutral.

Using lasers to force an approach from your opponent into your established neutral zone is playing defensive.

Using lasers to force an approach and then running away to continue lasering is camping.

 

[forward]

Camping is an excessive avoidance of establishing neutral.

Using lasers to force an approach from your opponent into your established neutral zone is playing defensive.

Using lasers to force an approach and then running away to continue lasering is camping.

The first sentence implies that maintaining an advantage is camping. If one were to have an advantage then they would not be in a neutral and if they were to try and hold that advantage then they would be avoiding to establish a neutral.

When does it become excessive? How many lasers count for establishing a neutral and how many count as running away?

 

[Aldwyn McCloud]

Using lasers to force an approach and then running away to continue lasering is camping.

This is how I intend it too nowadays. Some time ago however I overused the term "camping" to the point where to me it'd be the same as "playing defensive" or even "punishing". There's actually even a meme in the Italian community generated by the assertion I once made about how "Melee is a game where the one who camps the most wins".

This whole thread, along with my discussion with PP show how ambiguous the term "camping" is. The only universal definition I can think of is that "camping" is the opposite of "being aggressive". However "being aggressive" is something that lacks a real definition too, so the problem isn't solved at all.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Maybe my definition is what true defensive play is, and camping is simply a large commitment to keeping a defensive game going. I kind of like that idea better.

That doesn't necessarily clear up any lines distinguishing where one would begin and the other would end, though.

Has anyone ever really played that line between camping and defensive game though? Don't most players make it obvious whether they camp or simply play more defensively and most people watching could tell what a person committed to?

 

[Fly_Amanita]

My intuitive notion of camping is simply not approaching. Since the definition of "camping" is purely an issue of semantics and since the word doesn't come up in our ruleset or any other important context, I'm not very concerned about establishing a precise definition.

 

[forward]

Has anyone ever really played that line between camping and defensive game though? Don't most players make it obvious whether they camp or simply play more defensively and most people watching could tell what a person committed to?

I think a main theme in this game (and the art of war) is deception, so whether it's camping or being aggressive, one's intentions should never be made obvious.

I like the idea of bringing risk vs reward into this. Perhaps one could say that camping is a style of play that, regardless of reward, the player always/usually goes for the lowest risk option. That would describe the situation of excessive lasers with Falco. Opposed to going for the greater reward of landing a shuffle dair and risking a shield grab or other counters the player goes for more lasers because the risk is lower.

 

[Cactuar]

The first sentence implies that maintaining an advantage is camping. If one were to have an advantage then they would not be in a neutral and if they were to try and hold that advantage then they would be avoiding to establish a neutral.

When does it become excessive? How many lasers count for establishing a neutral and how many count as running away?

By neutral, I am referring to a point where one player is within range to engage another player with the actual character, not the concept of "Advantage, Neutral, Disadvantage".

Two players without projectiles standing at opposite sides of the stage is hypothetically a neutral position for both players to take, but that is not my definition of neutral.

Neutral is a spacing to keep where the other player is just barely out of range to attack you. Any time spent outside of neutral range is really just time spent running around like an idiot, vying for a position where the opponent will break neutral uncomfortably and put themselves in a position to be counterattacked, or using projectiles to force an approach into your own neutral zone or to rack up damage.


At proper neutral, your options are to break neutral (usually either to dd in range or to try and reach the opponent), wait/bait, and run.

Once neutral has been broken, your options are to get hit/pressured, counterattack, or reset to neutral.

Further than neutral, your options are to (where applicable) force a return to neutral (which can be through projectiles or just simple patience) or to continue evading and preventing neutral from being restored.

 

[AXE 09]

Perhaps one could say that camping is a style of play that, regardless of reward, the player always/usually goes for the lowest risk option.

I like this sentence right here. This would probably be the way that I would define camping if I had to put it into words.

Still, it's hard to define that line between playing defensively and camping. I kinda think of camping as excessive defensive play.

 

[SwiftBass]

i think camping involves an excess amount of created space.

ppl think m2k camps DD hard but like he is in your face to to me its not camping.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Playing defensively is camping at least by my definition. In my opinion camping is any style of play wherein a player only uses options that do not require them to approach. This is to say that anything from a falcon dding in one place waiting for his opponent to approach to falco lasering to force his opponent to approach to sheik sitting on the ledge refreshing invincibility is all technically camping. Defensive play and camping aren't mutually exflusive, quite the opposite actually. Idk why people try and make them out to be.

 

[Aldwyn McCloud]

I like the idea of bringing risk vs reward into this.

This isn't 2007 anymore though and people know how to deal with lasers and projectiles; a player who is standing in spot and shooting projectiles is obviously camping but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the safest option for him. The opponent could powershield the projectiles or find ways around them taking advantage of the lag afterwards. Depending on your opponent's psychology there might (and most likely will) be situations in which approaching/breaking the neutral/whatever you wanna call it is more advantageous than just to keep shoot projectiles.
The risk/reward definition is probably more fitting for the more general concept of defensive gameplay, rahter than for camping.

The way I see it, Cactuar's definition is the best because it's the one most related with spacing.

If I'm standing in a corner using my projectiles, forcing an approach and then making some kind of move myself to take advantage of the openings I created it's defensive gameplay.

If I'm waiting for an opening but I'm relying only on my opponent's mistakes rather than inducing them with projectiles or by putting myself in some particular position on the stage it's punishment.

If I'm withdrawing in a certain position with the only purpose of shooting projectiles and deal damage with them, only to circle run and recreate the scenario as soon as I can, regardless of the possible exploitable weak points my opponent is leaving open then it's camping.

 

[forward]

Aldwyn you are implying a lot of things.

Camping shouldn't have anything to do with its success, thus, if someone gets punished for what they believe is the safest option (which may be lasering in one spot) it can still be considered camping but it was unsuccessful.

When you say that a player withdraws "with the only purpose of shooting projectiles and deal damage with them, only to circle run and recreate the scenario as soon as I can, regardless of the possible exploitable weak points my opponent is leaving open ..." If one can successfully do this then they ARE exploiting weak points. The one being camped is weak to someone who keeps a large distance and uses projectiles. And by this definition, you could say that anyone who exploits a weak point is camping because they are always recreating the situation to take advantage of a weak point regardless of other possible advantages.

The safest option is not always the best option, I never implied that it was. If someone always goes for the safest option then I would argue that they have room to improve because they can't mix up their game play, it is static and not dynamic. Sometimes, the best option is take a risk. The best option can always be defined as what the opponent leaves themselves open for. They can leave themselves open for attacks, for bad position, etc.

 

[Cactuar]

Go back and try to understand my concept of neutral. You read my first post with an incorrect definition to how I was explaining it.

 

[forward]

Reworking the words a little bit...

Camping is an excessive avoidance of establishing a spacing " where the other player is just barely out of range to attack you.

This is confusing and I don't have a lot of patience to try to understand what you mean because I think that I will more than likely not interpret it correctly.

So, camping is avoiding the range just outside of your opponent's longest range attack?

Well if that is so, what if your opponent's longest range attack is shorter than yours? So that you stay out of their longest range attack but you keep them in range of your longest range attack? By that definition camping is done when someone has more range than another person.

 

[Cactuar]

Viewing a matchup from third person, neutral becomes a zone. Viewing it from first person, neutral is only that range. Based on character, you can have that kind of an advantage over your opponent at your own neutral range. As I said before, try not to confuse the concept of neutrality with what is being described here.

This is something most people either get or don't. Its just a difference in how we view the game, and by no means am I going to try and force it on you. It is by far the simplest way to put a definition on Aggressive, Defensive, and Campy imo, but realistically, everyone will have different views.

If I get more time maybe I'll try and explain it through examples so you can interpret it with your own views rather than trying to interpret my theory straight up. I think that would be far more effective.

 

[Aldwyn McCloud]

Aldwyn you are implying a lot of things.

I recognize my statements were very rough and lacked consistency. Unfortunately this is smash metaphysics so I really can't help it that much =P. Luckily Cactuar is expressing himself better. As I already said, I agree with him because I feel camping to be closely related with spacing. I also like his concept of neutral to explain everything.

 

[The_Doug]

Pretty interesting topic because the way I see it the term "camping" has changed a lot as the smash community has evolved into 2011. Personally I've always associated camping with certain stages and character combinations.

Going way back to 2002-2003 when items and the majority of stages were still on in California and European tournaments the term was used less because time limit was not always implemented. One example would be Peach on Venom happily throwing turnips upwards while "camping" one of the bottom platforms. The other player a lot of times in this situation could easily wait for an item to spawn not feel forced to approach until he got a good one. Marth on Peach's Castle was also pretty common where he would camp one side of the castle while some characters had no options at all but to wait for a platform to spawn to let them jump across with a bit more safety.

At some point around 2003-2004 sudden death was only played out at a tie in percent. This would have a huge effect on the definition of camping.

2005-2006'ish: Fast forward a few years with no items, less stages to choose, and enforced time limits. All of a sudden establishing a percent lead becomes more and more important, and especially so if your chosen character has a projectile. Corneria still a very common stage selection and you would see tons of games at tournaments played out here at the end of a set. Generally the consensus around this time period was that "camping" would be players hanging back and refusing to attack a lot more often still dependant on stage. Kinda like how Pokemon Stadium transformations can halt gameplay.

On to the present: My goodness how things have changed. Getting the first hit seems more important now even though combos from zero-death are a lot more common. Some of the character/stage combinations are still there although a lot less brutal than they used to be such as Falcon/Peach on DK64 and Fox/<insert char name here> on Dreamland.

A more modern viewpoint suggests spacing, hitboxes, and a percent lead have everything to do with what people call camping. I can see where a lot are coming from on this, but I don't think I'll ever get on board.

Doug/Wes for 7th place at TG5. Peach's Castle: I get a stock lead as Marth and camp the castle for minutes at a time (items on). Camping? Check.

Mathos/Viperboy at FC: Full game played out on Corneria with two Falcos firing a total of 800 projectiles. Campfest? Check.

J-Man/Amsah at Pound IV: Amsah ledge stalls for a while to maintain a stock lead on Dreamland. J-man doesn't approach for a while. Campfest? No way, not even close.


tl;dr - Old dog's opinion of camping. The truth is the real definition of camping ceased to exist a long time ago, and the current version has skewed a lot in the eyes of the smash community.

 

[KishPrime]

I always thought of the original definition of camping as someone who is staking out a spot on the stage and staying there. Then all of a sudden, run-away tactics got included under camping, which seemed like a weird idea to me. Now it's some hyper-nuanced term?

I like the original definition. Camping, as originally defined, is the attempt to secure and occupy a location on the stage with a strategic advantage where the opponent has to approach you to avoid a loss. Camper = stationary. Run-away tactics are not "camping." Just think of the word "camping." What are you doing? You're sitting in a staked-out tent. You can't run around with it to avoid bears! Camping usually isn't the safest option or the best option. It's a wall-type strategy that has limits in its application and use. The entire joke of Camper Bob was that he would camp even when it was stupid to do so, like when he was behind. You can't sit still and camp when you're behind, or you'll lose.

You need a better word to describe run-away tactics that makes sense. I propose proximity-cancelling.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Camping is realistically a non-fighting game term. It's realistic definition is the procurement of a single advantageous area and using whatever methods necessary to stay within that advantageous area whilst simultaneously acquiring the lead. A common example is high ground snipers in FPS games, high field of vision, low visability for the enemy, easily blocked approaches. Or in something like Halo's Skull game varient it would be a small room with easily guarded entrances that an team could easily hold down for however long you would need.

In fighting games most camping can be more easily defined as simply non-agression, aka defensive play. Though Camping can be expanded somewhat from its more common definition to focus on the idea of "Advantageous Area" at which point you could claim that camping in melee is simply controlling space to allow yourself to always be at a neutral or advantageous position while keeping your opponent at either neutral or disadvantageous positions. Or rather it would be more correct to say "Attempting to control space" as it is not a perfect strategy. Once again this would fall under things like DD Camping in which you're in a neutral position attempting to bait an advance from an opponent to put them in a disadvantageous position, or laser camping which automatically puts the opponent at a disadvantageous position and forces them to attempt to reset to neutral.

 

[KishPrime]

I don't really like the term "non-agression" or "defensive play" for describing camping. Isn't firing lasers at your opponent an offensive action? You're initiating conflict. Whenever you initiate conflict, 95% of the time you should do it in a safe way, whether it's because of frame traps up close or attacks that outrange the opponent.

That's why the term camping is meaningful - it suggests the staking out of a particular position regardless of opponent location.

 

[Cactuar]

Just because a word has a root doesn't mean its definition needs to be tied to it. Evolution of words, as words and their meanings are democratic in nature, homie.

 

[KishPrime]

What is the definition of "defensive play," then? Avoiding proximity to your opponent? I don't think that's inherently defensive. Sometimes by increasing your proximity (to sword or laser range) you are maintaining an offensive advantage.

I'm just saying that the term camping describes too many strategies right now, so why not reset it to the strategy it initially described and come up with new terms for other strategies. The term camping represents an actual strategy that is inherently different from run-away lasering. Camping is about setting up a spot where you have a geographical advantage and forcing the opponent to play there, while run-away lasering is more about proximity management between both players. The two strategies are both wall-based strategies (using the same tactic repeatedly until the opponent proves he can stop it), but they are completely different strategies.

 

[forward]

What is the definition of "defensive play," then? Avoiding proximity to your opponent? I don't think that's inherently defensive. Sometimes by increasing your proximity (to sword or laser range) you are maintaining an offensive advantage.

I'm just saying that the term camping describes too many strategies right now, so why not reset it to the strategy it initially described and come up with new terms for other strategies. The term camping represents an actual strategy that is inherently different from run-away lasering. Camping is about setting up a spot where you have a geographical advantage and forcing the opponent to play there, while run-away lasering is more about proximity management between both players. The two strategies are both wall-based strategies (using the same tactic repeatedly until the opponent proves he can stop it), but they are completely different strategies.

I agree with a lot of this. The fact that the word camping gets thrown around so often that the word has lost a lot of meaning it once had.

In the original context of the word, staking out one spot to hold an advantage, camping is almost non-existent. Doug brought up a good point regarding the old school camping ways because of the stages. On such stages it is easy to camp a particular spot because those spots don't lead well to approaches.

Nowadays, camping in that sense is limited to types of spots one can describe. Ledge camping is fair to say, because one can stay very close to the edge of the stage. The advantage that has is easy to see too, landing a back throw or certain attacks to go for a low % ledge guard. It's useful when the camping person has high % and can't afford to trade hits in the center.

Platform camping is another fair thing to say. One can maneuver only through platforms to avoid ground spacing (a common anti-IC strat). I suppose one could even say aerial camping in that the player stays in the air as often as possible (jigglypuff).

 

[Aldwyn McCloud]

What is the definition of "defensive play," then? Avoiding proximity to your opponent? I don't think that's inherently defensive. Sometimes by increasing your proximity (to sword or laser range) you are maintaining an offensive advantage.

I'm just saying that the term camping describes too many strategies right now, so why not reset it to the strategy it initially described and come up with new terms for other strategies. The term camping represents an actual strategy that is inherently different from run-away lasering. Camping is about setting up a spot where you have a geographical advantage and forcing the opponent to play there, while run-away lasering is more about proximity management between both players. The two strategies are both wall-based strategies (using the same tactic repeatedly until the opponent proves he can stop it), but they are completely different strategies.

I like this post because it underlines the presence of another issue which is the fact we often (including me) overuse the word camping confusing it with spamming. Spamming is overusing a move (such as projectiles), camping (at least in non fighting games, like Pink Reaper said) is taking advantage of a specific position forcing your opponent to play under your rules. I believe their meanings got kind of blurred and mixed because camping in Melee often involves the use of projectiles. Nevertheless, run-away lasering has still in common with traditional camping the element of forcing your opponent to come for you so I don't really feel that much of a difference anyway. This is also why the definition of camping IMO has to necessarily be related with spacing.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Some other relevant thoughts:

As I said earlier, the question at hand is not of interest to me since I don't care about what the definition of a word is when there is no pressing need for it to have a precise definition. While what a word means may not be an interesting question, a similar and more useful question is what concepts are we interested in observing and what names should we give them. While the names themselves aren't important, having terms to identify concepts is certainly useful. In that sense, I feel that this discussion is kind of the opposite of what it should be since we're saying "Here is this word; what should it mean?" rather than "Here are some slightly different concepts that are often lumped together; what titles should we give them to differentiate them?"

We could try to give different names to a few of the distinct things that are all commonly referred to as camping. It could be hard to get such terminology commonly accepted, but I bet names that are something like *insert modifier here*-camping could have decent odds of catching on, seeing as there are already a few commonly understood strategies with names like that.

 

[forward]

a similar and more useful question is what concepts are we interested in observing and what names should we give them. While the names themselves aren't important, having terms to identify concepts is certainly useful.

Agreed. I was hoping that this topic could eventually lead into another thread based on that naming/observing concepts.

A few that come to mind:
-Spacing
-Timing
-Mindgames
-Pressure
-Shield pressure
-Movement

I'm sure there are more but these are some words that people use that can describe more than just one type of situation or concept. It would be nice if these could be broken down further into more specific and details situations. It would make discussing smash much easier and more enjoyable.

 

[Wobbles]

Can't we just go back to arguing which players have the most tech-skill and who has the most mindgames? All this nuance makes my head hurt.

*

I agree with Kish though. The thing is, run-away and camping are actually polar opposite strategies of each other; camping is tied to defending or abusing properties of one location for extended periods of time. Run-away involves keeping large distance between you and your opponent. Both can be used as part of a timing-out strategy though, provided the camper or run-away-er has the lead.

Except of course when people talk about platform camping, where you *run away* from platform to platform. Or in Brawl where you air-camp, which is to hang out in the air right outside the opponent's range, so you are staying in place *relatively* which means you're actually moving around quite a bit.

But your favorite player does not ever do any of these things, and if he does he's actually just playing "safe," "defensive," and "intelligent." Otherwise he's playing "gay."

*

Okay seriously, I'll just offer my definitions and see who likes them.

First, I'm okay with defining camping as the attempt to maintain control over a specific location on the level. The player can run to the other side of the level and camp there if he wants, but the running action is separate from the camping.

Camping is a tactic, my definition of tactic being "a short-term plan of action or tool." The term strategy, as I use it, refers to your long-term plan, your heuristic for determining what your tactics will be. For instance, your strategy can be "camp the ledge and try to gimp him when he comes close." Camping is a tactic employed here, but the camping ceases briefly when the player tries to turn the tables and get a low-percent KO. In a time-out strategy, you could say "get a lead by playing hit-and-run with projectiles, then camp the ledge until I win regardless of what he does afterwards."

Hit-and-run is a tactic. A strategy can consist of nothing but the abuse of a single tactic, but usually it's more complex (even if only slightly). Something like "I will play hit-and-run unless I get him off the edge in which case I will edge-guard him." Similarly, players do not camp a location 100% of the time, because most strategies are designed with victory in mind. Otherwise you're refusing to leave your segment of the level even when you're two stock behind and the other guy is a Fox firing lasers at your stationary location.

/tangent

Playing defensive is a strategy focused on waiting for errors or accurate reads, and also minimizing the effect of your opponent's openings. I mention accurate reads because sometimes an action is only technically an error when the opponent knows its coming and selects its counter in advance, rather than actions which are completely punishable outside of prediction. Playing defensive can involve hit-and-run because you are attempting to force the opponent into scenarios of constant approach, either to bait a predicted response or a poorly executed attack out of frustration. Or if not out of frustration, then playing the odds that if your opponent short hops twenty n-airs at you, at least one of them will be misspaced in a way that permits a punish.

Then we get into hybrid terms like "platform camping" which involves constant active movement in order to control two-thirds of the available stage space, at which point you can accuse the other player of camping the bottom half of the level, because camping and owning a majority of the level seem like oddly incongruous ideas so now your opponent is the one camping you, which means Youtube no longer loves them. And now we've poured slick soporous fluids all over our slope and are just begging us to tumble down it into the depths of linguistic hell. Soon people will be calling each other ******s for camping specific levels, or the bottom half of the map selection because they only play on FD, Battlefield, and Dreamland. Schisms will split our community as wars erupt between the Pokemon Stadium campers and the Yoshi's Story campers, but fortunately not much will happen because everybody's too busy house-camping to bludgeon each other, which is good because if you've ever seen nerds fight it's really just kind of sad so I think it's for the best.

 

[KishPrime]

I think what Wobbles post was meant to do is give me justification for all my accusations I've issued over the years that I've directed at people who camp FD. His definition of defensive play aligns with mine, more or less.

Glad everyone agrees with my post. I still vote for proximity-canceling in place of run-away camping.

 

[unknown522]

Camping is when the person doesn't approach and never moves forward. Also running away counts.

 

[Pink Reaper]

There's a surprisingly large amount of semantics being argued here. Camping is a well defined term, it just doesnt actually apply to our game because "Camping" cant really exist in a fighting game. If you want to get into more semantics(yay) anything we'd define as "Camping" is actually Turtling by fighting game definition, the act of staying the **** away from your opponent and playing a massively defensive style. In truth all anything called Camping in this thread pretty much falls into this category. This is how i came to my definition of camping, since true camping doesnt really exist in fighting games, what with it being a(mostly) FPS only term. Now you could argue(and im sure someone will) that camping can exist in melee since there are in fact advantageous positions that you can take and stake out in but since most of the stages where true camping could exist it's pretty much a moot point.

Also Kish Defensive play is any form of play wherein you attempt to force your opponent to be the aggressor. This doesnt mean you do nothing and they only attack but rather it's a play style that forces your opponent to HAVE to attack. This exists in all fighting games with a timer since any player with more health(less % in melee) cant win without dealing more damage. Projectile camping(the melee type) is a form of defensive play to not only put you into a winning position(less %) but also to force your opponent to attack which theoretically should give you the advantage if you're capable of properly punishing. Non-Aggressive tactics would be DDcamping or Ledge Camping, wherein you already have a % lead and abuse your opponents need to approach to put them in a disadvantageous position. Realistically this is the closest you can get to true camping in melee since it's usually a tactic of staying in one spot specifically rather than maintaining distance while projectile camping. Basically, im rambling at this point and I had to do like 8 things in the middle of making this post so i cant even remember my originally point. Basically what im saying is gay marriage should be legal.

 

[KevinM]

Camping is when the person doesn't approach and never moves forward. Also running away counts.

Would you define dash dancing just out of reach of someone camping then?

 

[Deleted member]

I think camping is just a series of defensive tactics that let you reset or prolong the match for some tactical advantage. I don't want to get too technical with such an ambiguous term, but I think most people understand camping in melee via platforms, dashdancing, projectiles, edge regrabs, sitting in shield, etc.

 

[KishPrime]

There are basically two ways to go with the "defensive play style" definition, which I think incorporates and summarizes Wobbles post as well.

1. a methodology employed by a player who deflects or defends against the opponent's attacks, while waiting for a mistake or opening that he can punish with counterattacks
2. a methodology employed by a player who entirely avoids interactions with the opponent, or conflict, unless he is able to secure a highly advantageous position or game state

Both are seeking to create openings while at the same time refraining from initiating conflict. However, in one case, you are still seeking direct interactions with the opponent, and in the other, you are seeking to invalidate the opponent's decision-making completely. Definition 1 is still about confronting your opponent's intentions. Definition 2 is about utilizing natural elements within the game to your advantage to neutralize your opponent's intentions. Camping, to me, is typically more about number 2 than number 1, but even that's not exactly right. Truthfully, you can be standing still and be employing version 1, and you can be moving and still employing version 2.

So I still think that camping != defensive play. I still like camping as a geographic term, and not a strategic term. Umbreon's "reset" definition is an interesting one, but I think that doesn't really work either. You can desire a reset even if you spend 99% of the match playing rushdown style - there are still tactical advantages that can be gained by taking a break.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Kish, the thing is, at least in terms of Melee, 1 and 2 arent necessarily mutually exclusive. Some characters highly advantageous position is one of rather close range allowing them to deflect and defend to force a mistake. I still maintain that you cant define camping in melee as the true definition of camping since that basically cant exist in melee.

 

[KishPrime]

I agree that 1 and 2 aren't always mutually exclusive...usually there are always multiple attributes in play. It's more complicated than you can easily sum up in words. That said, usually players are striving more for one than the other in different scenarios.

Never mind. I don't understand what the point of this thread is anymore. I thought we were debating a specific, narrowed down definition for camping, with the point of making the term meaningful again. You can't just say it means everything defensive, unless you're saying you think it should just be slang for "everything defensive." That's just not terribly useful.

 

[HugS™]

Like many things that require definition, I believe a solid, all encompassing sentence is most appropriate.

Camping is the act of encouraging an approach from an opponent(s) solely through retreat, hiding, spam, becoming unreachable, or any combination of the four. Any other form of approach encouragement should not be considered camping.

I think that covers everything I feel should be considered camping, but as always, it's possible I missed something.

 

[KishPrime]

How else would you encourage approach? And what is hiding?

 

[forward]

I suppose your approaches can be so effective against someone's defense that they feel they need to switch their style and start to approach you.

Hiding is snake's taunt in brawl.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Hiding is when you turn off your tag and play green and then move into Sudowoodo's hands.