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How do you define a "true combo"?

K-45

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 16, 2014
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A Ture combo is a set of moves that the opponent can't escape from.

In smash 4 almost every combo you can escape from. So there's no Ture combo you can depend on to do 60% damage without risk,
 
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KaZe_DaRKWIND

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As K45 said a true combo is where you literally can't do anything until the combo is over. Strings are basically hitting the opponent in something similar to a combo but they can escape if they move right. Not sure what a frame trap is though.
 

CitizenSNIPS

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 19, 2013
Messages
55
A true combo is an "inescapable combo." So in other words, once you get hit by the first hit of a combo, you are stuck in it unless the attacker messes up. In Smash it would mean that you can't air dodge/DI/VI/tech out of it.

A frame trap is when the opponent is stuck being unable to do anything because of the frame advantage the attacker has. So if you block something you might be tempted to unblock and counter, but due to the frametrap you'd actually get hit before your counter comes out so you are essentially stuck there blocking. In some cases the only way to get out of it is to quickly poke out, or to take the hit to get yourself out of the frametrap
 
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UltimateXsniper

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A Ture combo is a set of moves that the opponent can't escape from.

In smash 4 almost every combo you can escape from. So there's no Ture combo you can depend on to do 60% damage without risk,
I'm expeirmenting Mario on the demo. I manage to do a combo about 30-50% range (rarely are times a little over 50). But I'm not sure if I can call it a true combo since it depends on the characters (Megaman is really hard to get into my combo apparently).
 
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JamietheAuraUser

Smash Lord
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Jan 11, 2010
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somewhere west of Unova
Frame traps can include things like low-to-the-ground strings, where attempting to air-dodge out of tumble would lead to you taking 20-ish frames of landing lag and a powerful follow-up attack. But if you don't air-dodge, they hit you again in the air. it can also involve situations in which you technically end up out of hitstun, but any possible actions are too slow to prevent the attacker from hitting you again.

A string is a sequence of attacks used to rack damage and cause pressure, but during which the foe escapes from hitstun for long enough to take some form of defensive action. Even a string can be useful though, as an opponent can end up in a situation where they have to make a guessing game. If they guess right, they can escape. If they guess wrong, they could end up caught in a combo or true combo, or simply take a very powerful finisher hit.

I'm expeirmenting Mario on the demo. I manage to do a combo about 30-50% range (rarely are times a little over 50). But I'm not sure if I can call it a true combo since it depends on the characters (Megaman is really hard to get into my combo apparently).
Actually, if it's the combo I'm guessing it is, Megaman is technically not trapped in it at all. CPUs just don't realize they can spam Up B to escape it at almost any time, instead mashing jump and air-dodge. On Link (and idiotic CPU Megaman), I've been able to deal 60% damage out of a down throw. Villager, however, seems to take less hitstun than other characters in addition to being very floaty, so it's hard to do anything to him with it. Pikachu gets caught for a few hits, but he gets sent too high and escapes before I'm dealing enough hitstun for the UAir follow-ups.
 

kataridragon

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True combo? Isn't a combo a combo. Seriously go play some street fighter.

Anyways....

A "true combo" is when a player gets hit by multiple consecutive attacks that are inescapable.

The string of attacks is inescapable because the hit box of the next consecutive attack "comes out" before hit stun ends from the previous attack.

Example: Mario does his up tilt. Up tilt has 3 startup frames (animation before attack hits) and 6 active frames (frames where the attack will hit an opponent). This attack cause 12 frames of hitstun (animations characters have when they get hit by an attack).

Mario hits link with an up tilt on the first frame the hitbox is active which is frame 4. Link is now in hitstun for 12 frames. Mario then waits until his attack ends (5 more frames) and link is still in hitstun for 7 more frames.

Mario then performs a second up tilt immediatly after his first up tilt ends. Then mario hits link again on the 4th frame of his second up tilt. Link is still in hitstun from Mario's first up tilt (3 frames left to go before it's over). Link can't avoid the second up tilt because he is still in his reeling animation from hitstun.

COMBO
 
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ferioku

Smash Ace
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Jun 30, 2014
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United Kingdom
A Ture combo is a set of moves that the opponent can't escape from.

In smash 4 almost every combo you can escape from. So there's no Ture combo you can depend on to do 60% damage without risk,
Smash 4 has true combo's, there are many times I get my brother in a combo that he can't escape.
 

Fex13

Smash Apprentice
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Sep 7, 2014
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or your brother just doesnt know what to do (DI/VI), no offense.

many times you play against new players and combo the heck out of them but against good players its a whole diefferent story and im pretty sure true combos in ssb4 will come down to 2 hits. but nothing more. sadly.
 
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I read the Melee It On Me article, this one:
http://www.meleeitonme.com/on-the-future-and-the-repeat-of-history/

And he talks a couple of times about "true combos" vs "strings" and "frame traps".
That's cool, except I honestly don't understand the distinction.
Could someone please explain to me what a true combo is?
Thank you.
A true combo is two or more attacks in sequence that can't be interrupted with a player action. Using DI or VI or whatever to escape a combo doesn't mean it's not a combo anymore than it is true in Melee. So if you hit a player within hitstun frames+start-up of first available action, you have performed a combo.

A frame trap happens when you leave a gap between two attacks in order to bait your opponent into performing an action so that you can punish their commitment. This is more applicable in traditional fighting games (where you might say, use a light punch and then leave a small gap so that they player can hit a button, and then interrupt it with your own attack to get a counter-hit). In Smash, we refer mostly to baiting air dodges as "frame traps" even though they are subtly different.

A string is just any sequence of attacks, be it from reads or as a combo or whatever.
 

SaintChairface

Smash Cadet
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Sep 1, 2014
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The City
or your brother just doesnt know what to do (DI/VI), no offense.

many times you play against new players and combo the heck out of them but against good players its a whole diefferent story and im pretty sure true combos in ssb4 will come down to 2 hits. but nothing more. sadly.
VI is still proportional to the knock back taken though, so despite further followups being tricky based on VI of the target, Mario is guaranteed to be able to combo down throw > up tilt * (some number dependent on target weight > up smash and then he's all but guaranteed some kind of aerial followup as long as the target started below 50% (again depending on weight)
 

Roko Jono

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 8, 2014
Messages
177
Its hard to explain these kinds of things, but examples certainly help and I hope this one does.

Here's a frame trap I personally love doing:

In melee, Ganon has a frame trap when you block his f-air. Many characters try to shield grab him after blocking his f-air, but the time it takes for most characters to get out of shield stun AND grab is longer than Ganon recovering and landing a jab. This means when people attempt to shield grab, they will get hit by his jab because it is faster.

I don't know the exact frame data but lets assume both players can act at the same time after Ganon does a f-air and L-cancels. Lets say a shield grab takes 5 frames, but Ganon's jab takes 3 frames. Ganon's jab will win a shield grab challenge.
 

RoxburyGuy58

Smash Journeyman
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Mar 23, 2008
Messages
241
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'Muricah
A true combo is an "inescapable combo." So in other words, once you get hit by the first hit of a combo, you are stuck in it unless the attacker messes up. In Smash it would mean that you can't air dodge/DI/VI/tech out of it.
This. Hence the term "combo", it's a combination of moves.

OP, have you played a real fighting game before? Like, something that isn't Smash Bros.?
 
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