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How do I transition from pools to bracket? (TOing)

Juggleguy

Smash Grimer
Premium
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
9,354
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
TOs in several regions these days get seeding wrong, and by that I don't just mean they're bad at identifying skills and regions; I mean they're making errors that are strictly wrong by the requirements of the tournament format. This is a very important issue that can make or break several aspects of an event, most notably the accuracy of the final placings and the tournament experience of attendees. Seeding incorrectly represents a disservice to the players and a disregard for the intended purpose of pools in the first place.

Here I'll discuss how to manage the transition from pools to bracket as a TO. People commonly think of seeding as "how do I separate players by skill" and "how do I separate players by region" and so on, but before going into that, we have to first discuss how to properly satisfy the constraints associated with a pools-to-bracket transition. If you don't get this part right, then it doesn't matter how well you separate players by skill and region -- your bracket would be wrong to begin with. So it's important to learn the fundamentals first.

When transitioning from pools to bracket, there are two golden constraints that should be met:

1. Each bracket section of X players contains a 1st seed vs (X)th seed matchup, whose winner plays the winner of a 2nd seed vs (X-1)th seed matchup, etc. where X is the number of players who advanced from each pool.

2. Each bracket section of Y players contains exactly Y different players from Y different pools, where Y is the total number of pools in the round of pools immediately preceding bracket.

Confused? Don't be. It's simpler than it sounds. Here's an example tournament and its associated constraints:

Example Tournament
Entrants: 64 players
Pools: 8 pools of 8 players each
Cutoff: Top 4 players advance to a Top-32 Bracket

1. Each bracket section of 4 players contains a 1st seed vs 4th seed matchup, whose winner plays the winner of a 2nd seed vs 3rd seed matchup.


Given the example above, the first-round should pit a 1st seed vs 4th seed, whose winner plays the winner of a 2nd seed vs 3rd seed.

2. Each bracket section of 8 players contains exactly 8 different players from 8 different pools.


Given the example above, each bracket section of 8 players should contain exactly 8 different players from 8 different pools. (ex: P1-S1 represents Pool 1 Seed 1)

Every Smash tournament that transitions from pools to bracket should abide by these constraints -- otherwise, it is likely failing to properly seed based on pools results (constraint #1) or failing to minimize the probability of a pools rematch (constraint #2). Keep in mind a different turnout level demands a different pools structure, so be careful not to get tunnel vision regarding the specific numbers associated with these constraints.

In the past, tio tournament organizer has always taken care of both constraints for TOs automatically because it's a piece of software designed specifically for that purpose. If you fill out pools results within a tio event and use the "Advance players to new event" feature, the software does the work for you and the resulting bracket satisfies all constraints automatically. However, now that many regions are using Challonge to run tournaments, it has become increasingly important to truly learn the fundamentals behind the pools-to-bracket transition, and it has also become increasingly apparent when a TO fails to recognize this need and subsequently bombs the seeding of a bracket. Be careful not to fall into this trap. To me, using tio's automatic pools advance feature without understanding the fundamentals behind it is like using a calculator without understanding how to add or subtract.

As a TO, before you even think about how to separate players by skill and region, take the time to understand the constraints of a pools-to-bracket transition and make sure to incorporate them into your tournament.

--

Juggleguy is a national tournament organizer, Melee It On Me team member, and Smashboards contributor. You can follow him on Twitter: @JuggleRob
 

ph00tbag

C(ϾᶘϿ)Ͻ
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
7,245
Location
NC
Basically, Challonge is a POS that is only popular because it's online, and why they hell hasn't nealdt made a way for Tio brackets to update on a website in real time?

I knew that.
 

Juggleguy

Smash Grimer
Premium
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
9,354
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
Basically, Challonge is a POS that is only popular because it's online, and why they hell hasn't nealdt made a way for Tio brackets to update on a website in real time?

I knew that.
Until a better software solution for the pools-to-bracket transition is in place, I think it's best if all TOs take a step back and actually learn why players get placed in the locations that tio places them in during the auto-advance from pools. I agree Challonge is long overdue for a pools-to-bracket feature.
 

hotdogturtle

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Messages
3,503
Basically, Challonge is a POS that is only popular because it's online, and why they hell hasn't nealdt made a way for Tio brackets to update on a website in real time?

I knew that.
This is basically what I was going to say, although in a nicer way.

Tio is a full tournament organizer, hence its name, and it handles almost every aspect of TOing, assuming that the TO knows how to utilize it. Challonge is nothing more than a bracket maker. In this age of streams and social media, online brackets are getting more popular, but you can't run a tournament with Challonge alone. I think that people's attempt to "switch" from Tio to Challonge is potentially hurting the scene, or at least hurting some tournaments on an individual level if the TOs aren't experienced enough or aren't handling their duties correctly.

Some of the problems addressed in this blog wouldn't be as big as they are if people would just learn to use Tio. Online brackets are a nice luxury but they shouldn't overtake the main TOing requirements.
 

HyperrCrow

Emotional Reality
Joined
Mar 1, 2013
Messages
1,422
Location
Boston, MA
Juggleguy, you've got an error under the first picture, I believe you meant to say 1st seed vs 4th seed.
 

Djent

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 6, 2010
Messages
2,606
Location
Under The Three Spheres
I guess I kind of figured this stuff out just from looking at Tio brackets. Back when 48-man brackets were more popular, Rule #1 was obvious and you could easily tell who the 1st seeds were by who had the Byes.
 

TheTantalus

Smash Hero
Joined
May 19, 2008
Messages
6,887
Location
Hampstead, MD
Since Challonge does pools poorly anyways, I recommend using Tio for pools and then promoting to bracket, then just copy that bracket in to challonge, if you like to be lazy. We really need to get this right, because if you don't you could have a pools rematch in R1 losers, which would be very frustrating to the players involved.
 

Strong Badam

Super Elite
Administrator
Premium
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
26,545
Basically, Challonge is a POS that is only popular because it's online, and why they hell hasn't nealdt made a way for Tio brackets to update on a website in real time?

I knew that.
:(...
 
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