Q&A How Do I Penguin? King Dedede Q&A Thread

[famedoro]

Eddie The Pacifist , thank you for the upB "non-frame" explanation

Soul Train : I started to suspect that the dsmash punish was an online/poor player thing And, tell me, not even the down tilt is "true" against some slow characters (after the fsmash I mean)? Do you think it's could be, anyway, a reliable mind game?

Regarding the up air: I used the term "beats" as a manner of speaking, just like you in this great video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6U_IYIVB4Q ), I didn't ask for the hurtbox/hitbox lecture

So, based of your experience, there any other character than cloud and rosa, who consistently outreach us and makes uair unsafe? Maybe megamen?

 

[Eddie The Pacifist]

Eddie The Pacifist , thank you for the upB "non-frame" explanation

Soul Train : I started to suspect that the dsmash punish was an online/poor player thing And, tell me, not even the down tilt is "true" against some slow characters (after the fsmash I mean)? Do you think it's could be, anyway, a reliable mind game?

Regarding the up air: I used the term "beats" as a manner of speaking, just like you in this great video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6U_IYIVB4Q ), I didn't ask for the hurtbox/hitbox lecture

So, based of your experience, there any other character than cloud and rosa, who consistently outreach us and makes uair unsafe? Maybe megamen?

Mega Man's Dair would certainly outreach King Dedede's.

 

[Muskrat Catcher]

Unfortunately, I usually have to go against ,,, and - those four in particular give me a hard time.

I guess what I'm asking is - any tips? For Cloud specifically, since I can't find his matchup description on the board.

I hate Cloud, but honestly I think my hate for the character causes me to do decently against him. Anyways, my #1 tip against cloud is to not be afraid to shield. His grab game is bad, but he can apply great shield pressure so don't get too shield happy, but especially when he is landing there is nothing he can really do to beat shield. My #2 tip would be to counterpick Dreamland. It has a larger effect than you would think. The large side and bottom blastzones favor our recovery, and the stage bottom really destroys cloud if he gets stuck down there. Also, if Cloud does his Up B ledge guards or doesn't snap to ledge while recovering, Wispy can kill him just like that, which is huge. Tip #3: Dededecide him! But don't actually kill yourself in the process. Often just spitting him under or away from the stage while low can kill him easy. This changes the battle so quickly. You need to make Cloud afraid to stand near the ledge. Dreamland is especially good in this respect. Spit under stage = dead cloud. My last tip is to not panic when Cloud is charging limit. It is so freaking hard to prevent cloud's limit in this MU, you will just have to live with him always having it unfortunately. Makes the MU hard, but not impossible.

Other quick tips on some other characters: never played a good ZSS so IDK there sorry! (I have only played one in tourney in my life, but I broke her shield twice. EZ money)
most sonics are predictable, flow chart sonics. If you notice this, take advantage by reading them hard. If they don't flow chart, things get harder. Good tools include retreating F-tilt, Nair (beats spindash), throw gordo where you think they will start a spindash, and airdodge very carefully. Never panic airdodge, only airdodge when you actually see the attack coming. If he can't read an airdodge, it becomes a lot harder for him to kill, so make use of that time. And don't try to edgeguard offstage, just do gordo ledge traps.
god I hate fighting a good link. I swear D-throw U-smash is true on us at low percents. However, this MU is more annoying than hard. Watch out for bombs is tip #1. Know their fuse so that if one is on the ground you know whether to avoid it or throw it back. Remember to throw bombs back! Your powershield game better be on point too, because if you powershield one or two projectiles you can get in and grab or do whatever. Your punish game better also be on point, because Link will leave openings, but you have to be quick and efficient with your punishes. Be very careful at kill percents. Link can kill very well, but he must get up close and personal to do so. If you avoid his kill moves, you are better off here than at range, so take advantage of this time.

 

[SenorStacheMan]

As a main, the great king of Dream Land has always been my favorite Nintendo character. He's the only one I ever use aside from ,, and . I've used him in a variety of Tournaments in online, and have gotten good results (of the 20 I competed in, I've won about 8).

Unfortunately, I usually have to go against ,,, and - those four in particular give me a hard time. I know that and are among our absolute worst matchups, but 9 times out of 10 they beat me. I usually try to bait out Cloud's Limit Break, though while that works, he always seems to get the rushdown on me. Link is also an issue, since his disjointed hitboxes seem to, for lack of a better term, outreach mine. Zero Suit Samus is obvious for reasons I shouldn't have to explain. Sonic is hilarious in that I can just grab/Jet Hammer (or as I like to call it F-Smash: Xtreme Version) him while he's in a Spin Dash/Spin Charge, but other than that, he seems to beat me in everything else.

I guess what I'm asking is - any tips? For Cloud specifically, since I can't find his matchup description on the board.

By the way, my name in For Glory is PhDedede. Eh? EH?

I'm not sorry.

Girthquake's advice for fighting Cloud is always "Cry in a cold shower."
Dunno. If that helps. Helps me lighten the mood I'mean in when I am fighting a Cloud

 

[KirbCider]

This is an issue I have with several of my mains; however it's a massive problem when I'm King Dedede. So...

My question is how do most King Dedede mains handle Aerial spamming Marths/Lucinas/Roys? He's kind of big to just crouch under them, and when I shield or spot dodge it seems like they can attack instantly when they land. I've learned by now that aggressiveness isn't a way to go with these types, so I try to back off from them and look for an opening if one were to appear eventually.

Sadly only being able to back off makes the match last so long, and generally I can't do much when they keep spamming aerials. Should I keep backing off and hope for an opening, or is there a certain attack I can do that can get past all the aerial spamming...?

 

[Axel311]

This is an issue I have with several of my mains; however it's a massive problem when I'm King Dedede. So...

My question is how do most King Dedede mains handle Aerial spamming Marths/Lucinas/Roys? He's kind of big to just crouch under them, and when I shield or spot dodge it seems like they can attack instantly when they land. I've learned by now that aggressiveness isn't a way to go with these types, so I try to back off from them and look for an opening if one were to appear eventually.

Sadly only being able to back off makes the match last so long, and generally I can't do much when they keep spamming aerials. Should I keep backing off and hope for an opening, or is there a certain attack I can do that can get past all the aerial spamming...?

Generally I'd say back off. Dedede's disjoint is bigger than marth/lucina/roys so you want to abuse that and space with backairs/retreating bairs/ff backairs as your bread and butter. Also some ftilts, jab cancels. Walk a lot, rarely run as Dedede's frame data is too bad for that. You almost never want to play Dedede aggressively, he doesn't have the frame data for it. Gotta play reactionary.

 

[Soul Train]

This is an issue I have with several of my mains; however it's a massive problem when I'm King Dedede. So...

My question is how do most King Dedede mains handle Aerial spamming Marths/Lucinas/Roys? He's kind of big to just crouch under them, and when I shield or spot dodge it seems like they can attack instantly when they land. I've learned by now that aggressiveness isn't a way to go with these types, so I try to back off from them and look for an opening if one were to appear eventually.

Sadly only being able to back off makes the match last so long, and generally I can't do much when they keep spamming aerials. Should I keep backing off and hope for an opening, or is there a certain attack I can do that can get past all the aerial spamming...?

Ftilt and Bair will outrange when spaced. Walk to space just right.
Gordo will force a changeup in their movement (use a jump Dgordo to ensure it won't hit you in the face if reflected).
If they're predictable with their aerials, powershield grab/Dtilt works wonders.

 

[Eddie The Pacifist]

What playstyle wpuld you consider King Dedede to work best as? Trying to make him more effective.

 

[TheRabidChipmunk]

How does D3 handle characters who like to approach with short hop aerials? I've noticed he has a blind spot diagonally above and in front of him, and whenever I play against characters who like to put themselves in that spot I have trouble keeping them away from me.

I feel like a change as small as being able to angle D3's f-tilt would go a long way in improving him as a character.

 

[Soul Train]

How does D3 handle characters who like to approach with short hop aerials? I've noticed he has a blind spot diagonally above and in front of him, and whenever I play against characters who like to put themselves in that spot I have trouble keeping them away from me.

I feel like a change as small as being able to angle D3's f-tilt would go a long way in improving him as a character.

I'll requote from above:

Ftilt and Bair will outrange when spaced. Walk to space just right.
Gordo will force a changeup in their movement (use a jump Dgordo to ensure it won't hit you in the face if reflected).
If they're predictable with their aerials, powershield grab/Dtilt works wonders.

What playstyle wpuld you consider King Dedede to work best as? Trying to make him more effective.

A punish-oriented, spacing game. Hard stop. You can't rush down, you can't play keepaway. You have to abuse your survivability and try to use your hitboxes/Gordo/jumps to force mistakes on their part.

 

[Eddie The Pacifist]

A punish-oriented, spacing game. Hard stop. You can't rush down, you can't play keepaway. You have to abuse your survivability and try to use your hitboxes/Gordo/jumps to force mistakes on their part.

Oh my, I'd never rush down with King Dedede, that's like a campy Captain Falcon.
I did do a bit of Keepaway, but mostly spacing. Need to work on punish game, I find myself punishing Smash Attacks with Down Tilts. Thank you for the advice

 

[luke_atyeo]

hey dudes, I'm trying to collect a bunch of quick easy info graphics on essential character knowledge to make a quick reference guide for commentators (we all hate it when a commentator says something that is wrong)
This shulk thing here is an example of the kinda stuff I am looking for

I'm going around to all the character boards and it'll be a little messy for me to try and check them all, so if you have any cool things like that, or just some useful info that I could turn into a similar picture, please send me a message. Cheers lads.

 

[S-bow64]

Hello Dedede board.

I have a question about reflecting Gordos, I know I can send them back by putting out a hitbox or air dodging but I wanted to know the timing to send them back with the Side-B.

I believe it send them faster and stronger than the air dodge and that's what I want.

Thank you in advance.

 

[ExiaPilotDedede]

Hello Dedede board.

I have a question about reflecting Gordos, I know I can send them back by putting out a hitbox or air dodging but I wanted to know the timing to send them back with the Side-B.

I believe it send them faster and stronger than the air dodge and that's what I want.

Thank you in advance.

Playing as D3, the two best options for a reflect back are Dtilt and Nair, either that or get your shield up asap.

 

[Soul Train]

Hello Dedede board.

I have a question about reflecting Gordos, I know I can send them back by putting out a hitbox or air dodging but I wanted to know the timing to send them back with the Side-B.

I believe it send them faster and stronger than the air dodge and that's what I want.

Thank you in advance.

Dtilt, as Exia said, is great. However Utilt is also amazing - the invulnerability of the move give you some leeway, whereas Nair can just be annoying.

 

[S-bow64]

Thanks for your answers, very useful but what I wanted to know is the timing to send back a gordo as Dedede with the Side-B.

That's when you can actually see Dedede take the gordo back in his hand and throw it again with the hammer. I know that's what happen when you airdodge a gordo but I remember one day sending back a gordo with Side-B and it went really fast and did a lot of knockback.

But it was long ago so I don't know if I just hit the gordo with the hammer hitbox of the Side-B or if it is actually possible to take the gordo back by using Side-B at the right time, hence my question.

Sorry if it wasn't clear enough.

 

[Soul Train]

Thanks for your answers, very useful but what I wanted to know is the timing to send back a gordo as Dedede with the Side-B.

That's when you can actually see Dedede take the gordo back in his hand and throw it again with the hammer. I know that's what happen when you airdodge a gordo but I remember one day sending back a gordo with Side-B and it went really fast and did a lot of knockback.

But it was long ago so I don't know if I just hit the gordo with the hammer hitbox of the Side-B or if it is actually possible to take the gordo back by using Side-B at the right time, hence my question.

Sorry if it wasn't clear enough.

No I got what you mean, I just needed to clarify. SideB isn't special in how it reflects Gordos. In fact, you should really never try to reflect Gordo with SideB - the move is too slow, has a horrible hitbox, and awful endlag. Gordo reflect speed is only determined by the move strength - so the stronger the move, the faster the reflected Gordo flies. Again, moves like Dtilt and Utilt are really going to be your best options.

 

[S-bow64]

Ah I see. I could have swore it was possible to take back the Gordo with Side-B, just like the air dodge.

Must have been the hitbox then. Thank you for the answer.

 

[ExiaPilotDedede]

Ah I see. I could have swore it was possible to take back the Gordo with Side-B, just like the air dodge.

Must have been the hitbox then. Thank you for the answer.

It is possible to do that, I think I've actually seen D3 grab the gordo and re-throw it off of a dtilt as well, though I could be mistaken about that. While it is possible to activate the same animation as air dodge with sideB, I don't recommend it at all since it is so much slower than the other options.

 

[Dr_Pillz]

So for someone who's starting to learn the King. What should I focus on first? Defensive strats ( I understand king works great with spacing and punishing) like gordo usage (like i said just stating, so i may be way off) or should i focus on learning on getting his combo strings down?

 

[jigglesthepuff]

basic defense strats would probably be best to learn first since dedede lives off defense

 

[ExiaPilotDedede]

So for someone who's starting to learn the King. What should I focus on first? Defensive strats ( I understand king works great with spacing and punishing) like gordo usage (like i said just stating, so i may be way off) or should i focus on learning on getting his combo strings down?

Dedede's combo game is weak, the best you really have are d-throw -> various things based on percent. There are some more difficult strings like fastfall nair/uair -> grab -> dthrow -> whatever, but other than that, you're better off playing defensively.

Your main goal as a dedede should be to get the opponent of the stage, ledge traps and guards are where dedede thrives. Don't be afraid to jump far out to land a fair, or go deep for a dair, D3 can recover from just about anywhere. In fact, that's another good starting point, just practice low and far recoveries with him, maintaining your survivability to take advantage of rage as much as possible is another aspect to think about, and knowing exactly how far you can push out towards the blast zone to gimp your opponent's recovery can give D3 some extra kill potential that he lacks in the neutral.

 

[Dr_Pillz]

Dedede's combo game is weak, the best you really have are d-throw -> various things based on percent. There are some more difficult strings like fastfall nair/uair -> grab -> dthrow -> whatever, but other than that, you're better off playing defensively.

Your main goal as a dedede should be to get the opponent of the stage, ledge traps and guards are where dedede thrives. Don't be afraid to jump far out to land a fair, or go deep for a dair, D3 can recover from just about anywhere. In fact, that's another good starting point, just practice low and far recoveries with him, maintaining your survivability to take advantage of rage as much as possible is another aspect to think about, and knowing exactly how far you can push out towards the blast zone to gimp your opponent's recovery can give D3 some extra kill potential that he lacks in the neutral.

Alright thanks for the advice I'll try to pracitce on the point you've given me! Though where should gordos be mainly used, as I've seen that they can be very useful but also are very easily countered by those with ranged attacks/reflectors.

 

[Soul Train]

Alright thanks for the advice I'll try to pracitce on the point you've given me! Though where should gordos be mainly used, as I've seen that they can be very useful but also are very easily countered by those with ranged attacks/reflectors.

If you want to get better at D3, there are ton of resources for you. Most of them stickied here on the forums, but the easiest way would just be to join the D3 discord, that's where we all are now. Here's a link just for you: https://discord.gg/e6bPkf4

 

[Dr_Pillz]

If you want to get better at D3, there are ton of resources for you. Most of them stickied here on the forums, but the easiest way would just be to join the D3 discord, that's where we all are now. Here's a link just for you: https://discord.gg/e6bPkf4

Alright, thanks I'll join you guys and (hopefully) get better at D3 with the info I've collected from here

 

[Jecux]

So I was playing FG with Dedede against Mario and something weird happened when I used side-b. I threw a Gordo, Mario used cape to reflect the gordo but he was KO'd at 28%. I need some kind of explanation for this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5a_pqTQbynA

 

[ExiaPilotDedede]

So I was playing FG with Dedede against Mario and something weird happened when I used side-b. I threw a Gordo, Mario used cape to reflect the gordo but he was KO'd at 28%. I need some kind of explanation for this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5a_pqTQbynA

D3 pulls out gordo.
Gordo get's reflected -> double damage
D3's animation to send the gordo off hits which reflects the gordo -> more damage
You have some rage.
Ad it all up and you get a really powerful hit.

 

[Jecux]

D3 pulls out gordo.
Gordo get's reflected -> double damage
D3's animation to send the gordo off hits which reflects the gordo -> more damage
You have some rage.
Ad it all up and you get a really powerful hit.

So it was the side-b that reflected it again after all. Thanks for confirming my assumption right!

 

[sjb.dario]

Hello, people. I've been trying to play against a Dedede, but I can't wrap my heard around he works. What are D3's biggest strengths and weaknesses?

 

[Dedemelon]

Any advice on approaching with Dedede? And how important is stage control to the penguin?

 

[P.Kay]

Anyone know any tips for defense? I would greatly appreciate it. Also ledge grab? I always seem to just miss the ledge.

 

[P.Kay]

Hello, people. I've been trying to play against a Dedede, but I can't wrap my heard around he works. What are D3's biggest strengths and weaknesses?

I'd watch out for gordos, which can be hit back at Dedede. Also look out for his aerials.
Attacking him from behind is a good trick, camping and projectiles should help.

Hope it helps!

 

[Lightning207]

question about D3's 5 jumps, Is there an effective and unneffective way to jump? i die alot because im bad a jumping where anyone else would be able to make it so im worried about if i dont know a special way to be more effective with it.

 

[SmolNozomi]

question about D3's 5 jumps, Is there an effective and unneffective way to jump? i die alot because im bad a jumping where anyone else would be able to make it so im worried about if i dont know a special way to be more effective with it.

Is it for recovering, or for air attacks?
Usually Dedede with his 5 jumps and massive recovery move allow him to always come back.
Please explain your situation

 

[TaranTr]

How do you guys deal with sword fighters like shulk and marth?