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How do I deal with high % opponents?

Betrayed

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 22, 2007
Messages
726
Location
Saint Louis, Missouri
Lately I've been having a lot of trouble taking out my opponents when they get to too high of a percentage.

Up to a certain point everything will flow together nicely as it always has, but I feel like my options get more and more limited the more damaged my enemies get.

I'm not a great player by any means but me and my mates do have fun with what competitive Melee/Project M offers.

Anyways I feel like the knockbacks of all of my throws and attacks send people too far for me to reliably combo into and makes spacing more and more difficult. Non-tippered smashes and tilts generally feel pretty underwhelming.

What should I look to do in these kinds of situations? I'm often having matches where things are always really close just because I can't figure out how to close out stocks past a certain point.
 

Xenozoa425

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 6, 2012
Messages
917
Location
Palm Beach Gardens, FL
NNID
tehross425
3DS FC
3754-7153-5146
You pretty much have to space well. Utilt is really good, as well as Fsmash, Nair, nB, and hell even Up B if you're feeling fancy.

Also when grabbing at high percent try dthrow. Has a lower angle than bthrow and they'll most likely be DI'ing towards you thinking you were gonna fthrow instead.
 

Amazerommu

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 4, 2013
Messages
1,147
Location
Kentucky
You pretty much have to space well. Utilt is really good, as well as Fsmash, Nair, nB, and hell even Up B if you're feeling fancy.

Also when grabbing at high percent try dthrow. Has a lower angle than bthrow and they'll most likely be DI'ing towards you thinking you were gonna fthrow instead.
Wow pretty much everything he said... Third hit of Side B will kill at high percentages... But... well it's easy to DI out of it as well. Reverse Up B outta shield is a fast ass counter to those charging in... which would be stupid for someone with high percentages. That's if they're in your face.
 

CyberZixx

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 26, 2012
Messages
1,189
That is the great Marth dilemma. You want to send your opponent off stage asap and harass them from there. Doing super fancy 80% combos are nice but gotta know when to end it early for positionianal advantage. Many of the characters in PM are hard to gimp so you just gotta be patient and made their job of recovering as painful as possibly. Try and force something punishable out and fsmash for instance. Many recoverys in PM also don't have a lot of landing lag so you gotta be quick and precise. Takes a lot of practice to learn the ins and out of edgeguarding.
 

Betrayed

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 22, 2007
Messages
726
Location
Saint Louis, Missouri
That is the great Marth dilemma. You want to send your opponent off stage asap and harass them from there. Doing super fancy 80% combos are nice but gotta know when to end it early for positionianal advantage. Many of the characters in PM are hard to gimp so you just gotta be patient and made their job of recovering as painful as possibly. Try and force something punishable out and fsmash for instance. Many recoverys in PM also don't have a lot of landing lag so you gotta be quick and precise. Takes a lot of practice to learn the ins and out of edgeguarding.
So it's not just me then?

It does feel a lot harder to edge guard in Project M than it did in melee. More people knock me off the ledge in situations where they wouldn't have before. I think I'll try to focus on just getting people off the stage with whatever works and working on my edgeguarding game a lot more.

Does D-Tilt work differently in PM than it did in Melee? I've not been having great success with it.
 

CyberZixx

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 26, 2012
Messages
1,189
I felt the same way playing PM at first. I think it is just that many recoverys have more lenient ledge sweetspot so Dtilt does not work as well.
 

shadow0x0cloud

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 12, 2013
Messages
148
Location
Long Island
At high-ish percents, you should also remember that a side-B often leads into tipper ftilt or uptilt.
I would recommend, however, to stop your combos short for positional advantage and also learn your Ken Combo conversions. A low percent kill off dair is often the game changer and can really effect how the opponent plays.
 

Amazerommu

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 4, 2013
Messages
1,147
Location
Kentucky
At high-ish percents, you should also remember that a side-B often leads into tipper ftilt or uptilt.
I would recommend, however, to stop your combos short for positional advantage and also learn your Ken Combo conversions. A low percent kill off dair is often the game changer and can really effect how the opponent plays.
^ THIS! I've had so many cases where a Dair spike made them just go apesh*t... They... 'lose their cool' if you will... Too easy to predict and manipulate them afterwards.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
throw them up

when they come down, hit them

keep doing it

you'll kill them i promise
 

Betrayed

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 22, 2007
Messages
726
Location
Saint Louis, Missouri
At high-ish percents, you should also remember that a side-B often leads into tipper ftilt or uptilt.
I would recommend, however, to stop your combos short for positional advantage and also learn your Ken Combo conversions. A low percent kill off dair is often the game changer and can really effect how the opponent plays.
I'll have to try out that Side-B bit. I never even considered it even though I always considered trying to U-Tilt since it's so damn powerful. Thanks.
 

BrianAure

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 29, 2013
Messages
39
Up-tilt
Dolphin Slash

Usually, I use Up-tilt to send them in the air so I can use nair. It's pretty much an instant kill for high percentages.
 

Codester

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 19, 2013
Messages
27
Location
Vancouver BC (Surrey/Langley)
NNID
TheCodester87
3DS FC
0130-1912-9132
Is Up-Smash Taboo to use? I know it's not widely regarded as a good move (I'm just now learning advance play after years of just playing for fun) and I use to, especially if sum1 is on a ledge above me do a sliding or a dash Up smash and hit with the tip which would off screen someone very easily. Is it not really used due to the recovery lag after using? Or is it just straight up too slow at firing.
 

shadow0x0cloud

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 12, 2013
Messages
148
Location
Long Island
Poor recovery, generally outclassed by up tilt. But if you do see an opportunity for usmash tip, by all means go for it.

You can probably get some cool stuff off the weak hit of us mash vs fast fallers.
 

dRevan64

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 1, 2010
Messages
355
Location
Philly
No you are not alone. "Why can I not kill this guy at a million percent" is the single biggest marth complaint ever. It sucks.
Basically do what umbreon said.

Is Up-Smash Taboo to use? I know it's not widely regarded as a good move (I'm just now learning advance play after years of just playing for fun) and I use to, especially if sum1 is on a ledge above me do a sliding or a dash Up smash and hit with the tip which would off screen someone very easily. Is it not really used due to the recovery lag after using? Or is it just straight up too slow at firing.
It comes out fast enough to combo sometimes but it's really rare that you get the tip. There's no taboo there, there's just so few situations where it's worth using that most marths don't even think about it which is what made the moon's tipper usmash on chillindude at rom 6 so amazing.
 

5-oNe

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 26, 2012
Messages
197
Location
Oak Park, IL
also if u are able to get a dair on someone on stage at high percent you are able to reach them with a reverse dolphin slash before they are out of stun.it has incredible knockback
 

Bukowski On Ice

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 15, 2012
Messages
42
Location
San Francisco, CA
Know the killing percent of your moves, and work on your spacing so that each of your moves tip when you hit them. Also, work on your ledge guarding game. Marth can get people off stage easily, but if you can't keep them offstage, you'll have problems.
 

Xinc

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 18, 2011
Messages
1,560
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NY, NY
NNID
xincmars
3DS FC
2981-7601-8481
Dancing Blade -> U-tilt is also a good option, no? If you get people also to a high enough percent, Up throw can kill.
 

niffyjiffy

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 5, 2014
Messages
28
Location
Fairfax, Virginia
^ THIS! I've had so many cases where a Dair spike made them just go apesh*t... They... 'lose their cool' if you will... Too easy to predict and manipulate them afterwards.
I'm afraid that one day I'll pull off a Ken Combo on a real person and I'll be too ecstatic to actually continue playing.
 
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