How do I beat Samus?

[MrFrigid]

Hey Samus mains,

Who do you have trouble with beating, and why? I'm having tooooooo much trouble with Samus players.

Can't roll, keep getting grabbed upon landing, can't edgeguard, can't approach in any fashion, I keep getting worked by Samus players, it's easier for me to fight a good pikachu/lucina/bayonetta/diddy than it is a samus.

 

[Forblazen]

Reflector people

if you constantly threaten her with it she can only use her normals which don't have much combo potential.

also keep her at a distance if you do

 

[1FC0]

Is there any way to beat Samus without reflector?

 

[Forblazen]

Jumping and baiting aerials from her usually works, Id also pick FD against her, since platforms give her a layer of protection over her if she camps in a corner

 

[IsmaR]

She still somewhat struggles with the issues she's had in past games. Namely the following:

Fast/long Swords that eat her large frame up

Rushdown/can trivialize her projectile game/can juggle

Counter zoning

 

[1FC0]

I play Pokemon Trainer. Do you have any tips for him? Personally I think Squirtle might be the best since he is pretty strong in the air and can approach by jumping, but it is still hard. Charizad seems hopeless in this matchup since he cannot approach. Ivysaur seem hopeless for the same reason but less so. Ivysaur's projectile game is worthless because it gets beaten by Samus' projectile game.

 

[KX17]

I would agree with you on squirtle: small, agile, possible rush down, and has 2 other characters to back him up.

I play Pokemon Trainer. Do you have any tips for him? Personally I think Squirtle might be the best since he is pretty strong in the air and can approach by jumping, but it is still hard. Charizad seems hopeless in this matchup since he cannot approach. Ivysaur seem hopeless for the same reason but less so. Ivysaur's projectile game is worthless because it gets beaten by Samus' projectile game.

 

[Lorisaur]

Hey Samus mains,

Who do you have trouble with beating, and why? I'm having tooooooo much trouble with Samus players.

Can't roll, keep getting grabbed upon landing, can't edgeguard, can't approach in any fashion, I keep getting worked by Samus players, it's easier for me to fight a good pikachu/lucina/bayonetta/diddy than it is a samus.

Ahahahahahah but you can't, Samus is a goddess, play her or lose

You have to use characters with good neutral and juggling, like Sheik, Pikachu, Inkling, Fox and many others, even Rosalina&Luma. You probably just have to figure out how to counter her projectile and Zair game and you have done 75% of the work if you have a good matchup. Well, just kidding every character is worse than Samus exept for maybe Dark Samus

 

[Savage1]

I play Pokemon Trainer. Do you have any tips for him? Personally I think Squirtle might be the best since he is pretty strong in the air and can approach by jumping, but it is still hard. Charizad seems hopeless in this matchup since he cannot approach. Ivysaur seem hopeless for the same reason but less so. Ivysaur's projectile game is worthless because it gets beaten by Samus' projectile game.

I hate fighting squirtles, especially as Samus lol. I also faced a good ivysaur once who did an excellent job of spacing.

 

[ChoodleMan]

As a Samus main, I can say that I DESPISE wolf. I hate everything about him. For me almost every other matchup is easy except for wolf.

 

[Savage1]

I hate fighting squirtles, especially as Samus lol. I also faced a good ivysaur once who did an excellent job of spacing.

I feel that I need to update this considering that I got a good amount of squirtle experience and it's no longer a problem to me anymore. However, I do still have a lot of trouble against falco still with how long his reflector is out and that it can through you off if it hits you. I also have trouble with air fighting like peach and daisy, and a friend of mine that main zsuit always kicks my ass with his aerials.

 

[Coolboy]

eh...FE characters especially Marth/Roy/Chrom/Lucina need to be close while Samus can easily keep them away from her with her special moves and grabs, i saw someone advicing them as a counter against Samus but i really don't see that working out..i also say this out of experience btw

if you deal with a spamming Samus then it's simple..pick a spamming character yourself and make sure to use shield/avoid alot, it will be all about who has the best timing in such match! :l

 

[Crystanium]

Well, considering you use Link, his remote bomb pretty much blocks all of Samus' projectiles. Get your remote bomb z-canceling game on and you're good to go.

 

[MG_3989]

Ness deals with Samus pretty easily (PSI Magnet mind games make her think twice about using charge shot and when you do absorb it it’s a huge health boost). He also combos her quite easily. He does have some trouble with the missles but his disadvantage state isn’t too bad against her because he takes away charge shot. Once he gets in his disjoints, aerials, and combos really do work.

 

[Crystanium]

Ness deals with Samus pretty easily (PSI Magnet mind games make her think twice about using charge shot and when you do absorb it it’s a huge health boost). He also combos her quite easily. He does have some trouble with the missles but his disadvantage state isn’t too bad against her because he takes away charge shot. Once he gets in his disjoints, aerials, and combos really do work.

I'm not so sure about that. Yes, PSI Magnet can absorb Charge Shot, but PSI Magnet seems to have a little more start-up delay than it did in SSB4. Samus can also deal with PSI Magnet by using Homing/Super Missile. Ness can counter with his baseball bat, but even if such thing is the case, z-air will deal with PSI Magnet or f-smash. I'm not certain how Ness can combo Samus easily. When Ness performs d-throw, for example, Samus can easily avoid his f-air, rendering Ness' combo useless. If Ness manages to get Samus into the air, it can be difficult for Samus to get grounded if PK Thunder is used against her. This is why Samus needs to have at least her mid-air jump to have an easier time returning to the stage.

Of course, I don't think the match-up is entirely in Samus' favor. In SSB4, I'd say either character was about even. In SSBU, I'm not quite sure, especially since Charge Shot isn't restricted to one area anymore. Ness is a character who seems to struggle against those who don't have to approach or who are evasive. In order to deal with Samus, it'd be best for Ness to utilize a bit of dash dancing and baiting Samus, such as when she's on the ledge or returning to the stage. For example, Samus mains might try using f-air from the ledge. Ness can back up and then rush back toward Samus to grab her or use dash attack. If Ness can play smart and bait Samus, then Samus may very well lose. It's all a game of cat and mouse.

 

[MG_3989]

I'm not so sure about that. Yes, PSI Magnet can absorb Charge Shot, but PSI Magnet seems to have a little more start-up delay than it did in SSB4. Samus can also deal with PSI Magnet by using Homing/Super Missile. Ness can counter with his baseball bat, but even if such thing is the case, z-air will deal with PSI Magnet or f-smash. I'm not certain how Ness can combo Samus easily. When Ness performs d-throw, for example, Samus can easily avoid his f-air, rendering Ness' combo useless. If Ness manages to get Samus into the air, it can be difficult for Samus to get grounded if PK Thunder is used against her. This is why Samus needs to have at least her mid-air jump to have an easier time returning to the stage.

Of course, I don't think the match-up is entirely in Samus' favor. In SSB4, I'd say either character was about even. In SSBU, I'm not quite sure, especially since Charge Shot isn't restricted to one area anymore. Ness is a character who seems to struggle against those who don't have to approach or who are evasive. In order to deal with Samus, it'd be best for Ness to utilize a bit of dash dancing and baiting Samus, such as when she's on the ledge or returning to the stage. For example, Samus mains might try using f-air from the ledge. Ness can back up and then rush back toward Samus to grab her or use dash attack. If Ness can play smart and bait Samus, then Samus may very well lose. It's all a game of cat and mouse.

Ness has other combos than just his fair combo. Plus he can use a ton of strings starting with Magnet, shff uair, PK Fire straight into fair, neutral air at early percents, etc... Ness has a very freestyle string and combo game and it works very well on Samus. Once Samus is in the air good luck

Ness definitely needs to play the bait and punish game in this matchup but Ness players are used to that. The key to Ness winning is getting advantage fast and getting a lot out of every advantage state. He also can’t overextend because then Samus has a field day. It’s bettwr for Ness to reset neutral rather than take huge risks (I mean a good Ness will ALWAYS take risks but they need to be calculated)

Your points are valid though and I don’t think it’s a polarizing match up either way. I’d give Ness slight advantage because if he can read and eat one or two charge shots that’s like 30% health recovery. A good Samus definitely can easily win this though if they play it right and this matchup does make me sweat

 

[Crystanium]

Ness has other combos than just his fair combo. Plus he can use a ton of strings starting with Magnet, shff uair, PK Fire straight into fair, neutral air at early percents, etc... Ness has a very freestyle string and combo game and it works very well on Samus. Once Samus is in the air good luck

Ness definitely needs to play the bait and punish game in this matchup but Ness players are used to that. The key to Ness winning is getting advantage fast and getting a lot out of every advantage state. He also can’t overextend because then Samus has a field day. It’s bettwr for Ness to reset neutral rather than take huge risks (I mean a good Ness will ALWAYS take risks but they need to be calculated)

Your points are valid though and I don’t think it’s a polarizing match up either way. I’d give Ness slight advantage because if he can read and eat one or two charge shots that’s like 30% health recovery. A good Samus definitely can easily win this though if they play it right and this matchup does make me sweat

I'm just going by my experience against Ness. I'm sure there are better Ness players out there than my brother, but for the most part, I've yet to deal with any Ness who is like my brother. He may just have more experience against Samus than most, since I've seen some Samus players at the Samus Discord complain about Ness. Like me, Samus players he deals with online never seem to be capable at keeping up with his Ness. There was a Ness main I played in Anther's Ladder for SSB4, and he seemed to be another Ness who could keep up with my Samus. Maybe your Ness could keep up with my Samus or even beat her. Who knows?

 

[Reila]

I feel like both Isabelle and Villager have an advantage against the Samuses. It is one the few match-ups I feel Isabelle has in her favor. Samus isn't particularly fast, she is tall which makes her food for a barrage of slingshot, she doesn't have a sword or a grounded projectile to easily take care of lloid traps (and like I said, she isn't fast enough so she can't run past it iirc). If she walks up to the lloid to destroy it she leaves herself open for a fishing rod grab. The Pocket is obviously powerful against Samus as having a fully charged shot pocketed puts a lot of pressure on the Samus (and both the Pocket and Charge Shot hitboxes are so huge that it is very easy to pocket it).

However, Isabelle still is super light and dies at early %. She has great recoveries but Samus can often attempt to meteor smash with dair if the Isabelle attempts to recover horizontally with the fishing rod. I also feel it can be a little difficult/risky to use some of her best tools such as utilt, ftilt. Even though the moves have disjointed hitboxes, Isabelle still has to get dangerously close to the Samus to use them. Speaking of recoveries, Isabelle has plenty of ways to gimp the Samuses with the fishing rod, or with a properly timed dash attack.

 

[MG_3989]

I'm just going by my experience against Ness. I'm sure there are better Ness players out there than my brother, but for the most part, I've yet to deal with any Ness who is like my brother. He may just have more experience against Samus than most, since I've seen some Samus players at the Samus Discord complain about Ness. Like me, Samus players he deals with online never seem to be capable at keeping up with his Ness. There was a Ness main I played in Anther's Ladder for SSB4, and he seemed to be another Ness who could keep up with my Samus. Maybe your Ness could keep up with my Samus or even beat her. Who knows?

I’m not sure, it would definitely be an interesting matchup. I play a very aggressive Ness and make full use of his movement (I can be pretty evasive myself), grabs, and disjointed aerials. I’m also quite good with PK Thunder. That’s not to say I can’t play cat and mouse because I can but I’m usually able to take advantage quick especially against zoners (Samus does have better close range options than some other zoners though). It’s a fun matchup to play imo

 

[Downshift]

Ness deals with Samus pretty easily (PSI Magnet mind games make her think twice about using charge shot and when you do absorb it it’s a huge health boost). He also combos her quite easily. He does have some trouble with the missles but his disadvantage state isn’t too bad against her because he takes away charge shot. Once he gets in his disjoints, aerials, and combos really do work.

If you use Ness, just be sure to watch out for Samus mixing up missiles and charge shot.
When I play against Ness, I can usually condition them to try and absorb Charge shot, then use Missile instead followed immediately by charge shot. If you see that, just take the missile to the face and don't shield it because that's actually what I'm trying to bait you into doing as Ness. Super Missile + Charge Shot breaks any shield. Then even if you bat the missile back, the charge shot is just going to eat that and still hit you for 30% during your endlag.

 

[Dsull]

i laugh when i face Ness/Lucus...i charge my B and just never fire it only firing missiles/droping bombs. They CONSTANTLY try to predict the charge shot and just get pelted by a missile or my foot. Apparently they can eat bomb blast too but usually they slam into it before they see it so contact-boom

Hyper-speedy characters are my bane though. Shulk seriously pisses me off with how fast he is and huge his reach is.

 

[DjMethod]

I'm not so sure about that. Yes, PSI Magnet can absorb Charge Shot, but PSI Magnet seems to have a little more start-up delay than it did in SSB4. Samus can also deal with PSI Magnet by using Homing/Super Missile. Ness can counter with his baseball bat, but even if such thing is the case, z-air will deal with PSI Magnet or f-smash.

Yes, this. I’m a Ness main and this is why I don’t use his absorb against Samus as much as opponents might expect. The stop delay also makes me vulnerable every time I’m wrong.

If Ness manages to get Samus into the air, it can be difficult for Samus to get grounded if PK Thunder is used against her. This is why Samus needs to have at least her mid-air jump to have an easier time returning to the stage.

Once Samus is in the air good luck

Also 100% true! I’ve noticed this against Samus opponents. As soon as I get them in the air, they struggle with the PK juggle.

Ness is a character who seems to struggle against those who don't have to approach or who are evasive.

Like who, and why?

In order to deal with Samus, it'd be best for Ness to utilize a bit of dash dancing and baiting Samus, such as when she's on the ledge or returning to the stage. For example, Samus mains might try using f-air from the ledge. Ness can back up and then rush back toward Samus to grab her or use dash attack. If Ness can play smart and bait Samus, then Samus may very well lose. It's all a game of cat and mouse.

Samus is a tough opponent for me. It is probably the character I struggle the most against (Samus and Richter are the two most annoying opponents for me in SSBU online). As a matter of fact, I found this thread and forum specifically because I started noticing how frustrated I get against Samus in particular (as Ness). I think what irritates me the most is how Samus players are so often campers. They loveee finding that edge, and waiting, and charging, and waiting. It just drives me up the wall. (I am fully aware Ness players can camp too, but it’s never been a recurring problem like with Samus matches).

Ness has other combos than just his fair combo. Plus he can use a ton of strings starting with Magnet, shff uair, PK Fire straight into fair, neutral air at early percents, etc...

Ness definitely needs to play the bait and punish game in this matchup but Ness players are used to that. The key to Ness winning is getting advantage fast and getting a lot out of every advantage state. He also can’t overextend because then Samus has a field day. It’s bettwr for Ness to reset neutral rather than take huge risks (I mean a good Ness will ALWAYS take risks but they need to be calculated)

Sorry, I am new to this forum, but what is “shff uair”? And I would definitely be interested in chatting with other Ness mains to discuss techniques!

 

[MrFantasticGenitalThrust]

Sorry, I am new to this forum, but what is “shff uair”?

Short Hop > Fast Fall > Up Air

 

[Crystanium]

DjMethod
Samus, the Belmonts, Olimar, most sword characters. Ness' grab range has been reduced in this game, and if you don't approach Ness because you have the range, then Ness might end up approaching instead. Here is a video of me and my brother. He mains Ness. There are more videos of him, mostly, and some of my Samus. Maybe you'll learn something new.

https://youtu.be/7hkUoVKU-SQ

 

[Crooked Crow]

So, why are we helping non-Samus players figure out how to beat Samus players? Shoo.

 

[Crystanium]

So, why are we helping non-Samus players figure out how to beat Samus players? Shoo.

To improve the meta-game. No improvement makes the game stagnant.

 

[Crooked Crow]

To improve the meta-game. No improvement makes the game stagnant.

I assure you, not telling people how to beat Samus isn't going to stagnate the metagame. You rarely, if ever, see Samus at top level.

 

[Crystanium]

I assure you, not telling people how to beat Samus isn't going to stagnate the metagame. You rarely, if ever, see Samus at top level.

Irrelevant. If I want to develop better skills, I'd rather have my opponent know what Samus is capable of doing and how to deal with her, rather than be ignorant and give me free wins.

 

[~?~]

I assure you, not telling people how to beat Samus isn't going to stagnate the metagame. You rarely, if ever, see Samus at top level.

No, what it does is leave you only playing the players who don't know what to do, thus never improving yourself as a result. I didn't go online to win constantly against bad matchups because bad players pilot the character I'm fighting against, I went to get bodied and improve. You're like a guy I know who brags a bit much about how good they are, does mediocre online against mediocre players, then outright loses offline to better players because you never challenged yourself enough to be put under actual pressure and still take Ws.
I tell people how to play Link AND how to beat Link, as well as how to cheese him and avoid his cheese. I do this so I have more people who can push me in different match ups in the hopes that they punch me in the face repeatedly and I zenkai boost like Vegeta.
If your goal is to stay mediocre, keep playing players who don't know what to do in said situations, because that's what the result will be. Just don't expect to do well against decent enough players, let alone high calibur and top players.

 

[Crooked Crow]

You're like a guy I know who brags a bit much about how good they are, does mediocre online against mediocre players, then outright loses offline to better players because you never challenged yourself enough to be put under actual pressure and still take Ws.

You know absolutely nothing about me; but thanks for talking out of your ass I guess.

Since when is it my problem that others don't know the Samus matchup?

 

[~?~]

You know absolutely nothing about me; but thanks for talking out of your ass I guess.

Since when is it my problem that others don't know the Samus matchup?

I know what I know based on the archetype of your responses. It's a general and easy to understand personality. Especially when your other forums activity is public, and it's a recurring set of traits in a portion of your posts. It's called analysis and assessment.

It isn't a problem for you until you try to compete against actual players actually playing on a competent level, but that's when it becomes a problem for you, however, you ignored that portion in the post you're bothering to respond to.

 

[Crooked Crow]

I know what I know based on the archetype of your responses. It's a general and easy to understand personality. Especially when your other forums activity is public, and it's a recurring set of traits in a portion of your posts. It's called analysis and assessment.

It isn't a problem for you until you try to compete against actual players actually playing on a competent level, but that's when it becomes a problem for you, but you ignored that portion in the post you're bothering to respond to.

Get a load of this goof. Thinks he's pulling a 3D chess maneuver. Do you even have results? You talk like you're a good player; but good players don't intentionally handicap themselves against other competitors. And this is very interesting, can you elaborate, Freud? You're so clever and intelligent and stuff.

Especially when your other forums activity is public, and it's a recurring set of traits in a portion of your posts. It's called analysis and assessment.

Really? Is it because I said Samus is mid tier? I hardly even post on this site, and I definitely don't write essays like yourself in an attempt to earn brownie points. Think what you want, I didn't ignore anything. You didn't state anything objective.

 

[~?~]

Get a load of this goof. Thinks he's pulling a 3D chess maneuver. Do you even have results? You talk like you're a good player; but good players don't intentionally handicap themselves against other competitors. And this is very interesting, can you elaborate, Freud? You're so clever and intelligent and stuff.



Really? Is it because I said Samus is mid tier? I hardly even post on this site, and I definitely don't write essays like yourself in an attempt to earn brownie points. Think what you want, I didn't ignore anything. You didn't state anything objective.

I'm likely the more competent player, across multiple smash platforms. Good players got good by playing good players who beat them, not by shredding scrubs online in a game with a low skill gap for 99% of their gameplay. It's a common phenomenon in the human species within almost every aspect of life, that where you are challenged, you improve, and where you are not challenged, you don't improve. It's not exclusive to Smash Bros.

I agree that Samus is a mid tier, I never argued against that and literally has nothing to do with what I said prior to this post.

"I hardly ever post on this site" -has over 2100 public posts and replies on the website they say the hardly post on-. I only need a dozen posts to see who you are, you provided thousands.

If your attempt was to use failed sarcasm and satire to insult my cleverness and intelligence, you've only done it to yourself.

 

[Crooked Crow]

I'm likely the more competent player, across multiple smash platforms. Good players got good by playing good players who beat them, not by shredding scrubs online in a game with a low skill gap for 99% of their gameplay. It's a common phenomenon in the human species within almost every aspect of life, that where you are challenged, you improve, and where you are not challenged, you don't improve.

I agree that Samus is a mid tier, I never argued against that and literally has nothing to do with what I said prior to this post.

"I hardly ever post on this site" -has over 2100 public posts and replies on the website they say the hardly post on-. I only need a dozen posts to see who you are, you provided thousands.

>2100 posts
>over a 12 year period

But your opinion has been noted, random individual I will likely not interact with again. I never said there's anything wrong with challenging good players, obviously that's a given? You're beating your chest, and going off on some tangent that I wasn't trying to insinuate in the first place.

You get better by playing the matchup- why would I, a Samus main, go to the Link boards and ask how to beat Link? I would figure that out myself if I grind experience and talk to other dedicated Samus players. You went off for no reason. Do you think, as a Link main, that you're obligated to share tips? I was being half serious with my first post, but not entirely. You can hold their hand and uh, improve this meta, as you say, or you can just play them and learn yourself. Do you think as a Link main, you should hold my hand? I'm trying to defeat you, we are competitors.

I appreciate the psych analysis, though! Spooky how you can practically read my mind after digging through a dozen posts.

*edit* Oh, Freud? I don't play online. Dunno where that quip is coming from either.

 

[~?~]

>2100 posts
>over a 12 year period

But your opinion has been noted, random individual I will likely not interact with again. I never said there's anything wrong with challenging good players, obviously that's a given? You're beating your chest, and going off on some tangent that I wasn't trying to insinuate in the first place.

You get better by playing the matchup- why would I, a Samus main, go to the Link boards and ask how to beat Link? I would figure that out myself if I grind experience and talk to other dedicated Samus players. You went off for no reason. Do you think, as a Link main, that you're obligated to share tips? I was being half serious with my first post, but not entirely. You can hold their hand and uh, improve this meta, as you say, or you can just play them and learn yourself. Do you think as a Link main, you should hold my hand? I'm trying to defeat you, we are competitors.

I appreciate the psych analysis, though! Spooky how you can practically read my mind after digging through a dozen posts.

I told people how to stop Link bomb aerial pressure so that I would have to work for it. Since I now have to work for it, I now have to apply a better neutral to set it up, thus increasing my skill across the board when it comes to neutral, rather than repeating the same tactic against players who don't get it, repeatedly. If I held your mentality, I would get bodied by most the players who I consistently beat today. I wouldn't hold your hand, but I'd educate you on the matchup for the obvious reasons I've already explained.

I never read your mind, I read your character and ethics.

I'll set up a money match with you, first to 10, no amount under 50 bucks not exceeding 100. It'll prove my point that you're the archetype I mentioned above. Offer is yours to take, just play your Samus. I can be available for it within 3 days.

 

[Crooked Crow]

I never read your mind, I read your character and ethics.

You keep telling yourself that, mate. I do hope it helps you sleep well at night.

 

[Crystanium]

C Crooked Crow
There's nothing wrong with going to a place like the Link room or Link Discord server and asking for advice on how to deal with Link. From my experience, players are more than happy to give tips on how to deal with certain characters, depending on who you ask. When I was playing a Mega Man player back in SSB4, I told him that if he used Leaf Shield, or used more jab, f-tilt, and n-air, he'd give me trouble. He started implementing these tactics on me, which gave me the opportunity to learn how to deal with these options. Even if I play against someone who doesn't win against me, I give tips and advice on what he can try and who to look up for more ideas. I personally find players who keep information for themselves as one of two types of people: elitists or cowards. Sure, if your goal is to simply just win, then don't say anything. If your goal is to have an opponent who will give you trouble, spill the beans.

 

[AlizeZaide]

You keep telling yourself that, mate. I do hope it helps you sleep well at night.

~?~ would body you, he bodies top players on stream

 

[~?~]

C Crooked Crow
He started implementing these tactics on me, which gave me the opportunity to learn how to deal with these options.

This is why I taught GHOD to stop bomb aerial pressure and how to bait things like Up Special out of shield.

 

[Crystanium]

This is why I taught GHOD to stop bomb aerial pressure and how to bait things like Up Special out of shield.

I don't know who GHOD is, but if you're a top player, that's pretty cool.