How come I lose after one fall sometimes

[Turk84]

Sometimes I lose after one fall within a few seconds of match starting. Why is that?

 

[IsmaR]

It might that the rules are set to '1 SD = minus 2 stocks/points' which means accidentally falling off (not taking any damage from the opponent) will instantly end a match with 2 stocks.

That's usually the standard for public modes online to try and dissuade people from intentionally throwing/griefing games.

 

[Turk84]

I play single player for now lol.

 

[JiggyNinja]

I play single player for now lol.

You're going to need to give more details then. Are you SDing? Getting edge-guarded? Spiked?

 

[Turk84]

I think I may have self destructed lol. Or edged or spiked as you said

You're going to need to give more details then. Are you SDing? Getting edge-guarded? Spiked?

 

[JiggyNinja]

Do you even want help? We can't give you advice unless we know what's happening.

Be specific. Detail exactly what is happening to you. What characters are in the battle? What stage? How are you getting offstage, and why were you not able to get back?

 

[Turk84]

I can’t recall all the details, but thanks for your help.

 

[swinn]

I have no idea what the point of this thread was

 

[Turk84]

Well I’m new to the game and trying to figure stuff out. I don’t remember who I was or who I was fighting. Sorry for the inconvenience,

 

[1FC0]

I see that your main is Mario. Mario has a bad recovery, try playing R.O.B.. His recovery goes the highest in the game of all recoveries that do not require the user to sustain damage, kill himself, have luck, or make use of assistance. That way you can more easily avoid falling and losing because of it. Don't forget to mash B with the right timing though.

 

[Turk84]

Thanks! I faced R.O.B. once but lost haha

 

[JiggyNinja]

I see that your main is Mario. Mario has a bad recovery, try playing R.O.B.. His recovery goes the highest in the game of all recoveries that do not require the user to sustain damage, kill himself, have luck, or make use of assistance. That way you can more easily avoid falling and losing because of it. Don't forget to mash B with the right timing though.

There are lots of good reasons to play ROB. Using him as a crutch for bad recovery skills is not one of them. Switching to a character with a unique type of S-tier recovery won't teach you the fundamentals of the game.

Here are the 5 basic principles for recovering

1) Know ALL of your options. Some characters (Lucas, ZSS, etc) can tether grab the ledge with their Zair (Or Fair/Bair/Uair with the Belmonts). Others might have lunging Side Specials (Ganondorf/Incineroar/Fox/Falco/Wolf/Ridley), some have other Specials that can help (ZSS Flip Kick, Dr. Mario's Tornado, all of Meta Knight's Specials). Know everything that your character can use to get closer to the ledge, and whether those options put you in special fall or not. Also be aware of an restrictions on them. Many Side Bs can be used again if you're hit; Little Mac's can't.

Unfortunately regular Mario just has Up Special.

2) Know your opponent's options for edge guarding. What are their best attacks to knock you away? How far out or down can they go to pursue you? Joker for example can commit very far out because of the long range of his Grappling Hook or Wings of Rebellion. Donkey Kong can go far out to the side, but can't go very far down because his recovery gives him very little height. Things like that.

3) Don't burn your jump too early. My sister does this all the time, and I still catch myself sometimes jumping immediately after getting hit. Don't use your double jump unless you have to. Being offstage without a double jump is literally 10 times worse than being offstage with it.

4) Don't use the same trajectory over time. Don't just hold toward stage the entire time. Don't jump and Up B at the exact same time every time. For example, I've been mostly playing Bowser online, and while his recovery has good range, it is slow making it much easier to intercept when I'm getting edge guarded. Bowser is usually safer recovering low since the opponent has to commit more to try to hit me, but after the first couple times I start to mix it up and use Up B earlier than would be "optimal" for the recovery. This will usually catch them before they can get out their edgeguarding attack, especially if it's a laggy dunk. Then I can mix up between going low or going slightly high, and if they guess wrong they either let me safely onto the ledge or got caught by Whirling Fortress.

5) Most important, DON'T PANIC and remember your towel. Panicking and frantically mashing buttons is the worst thing you can do offstage. Disadvantage in general requires a calm head, but it's so much more important offstage where a single mistake can end your stock. My sister for example, is not so good with the controls yet so when I knock her offstage, she says she tries to Up B but all that comes out are multiple Side Bs until she's below the stage and finally gets the Up B out (And she likes Greninja, so I get a front row seat to a concert of Shadow Sneak ASMR). Don't do this. You must be deliberate with every thing you do, choosing how to drift around your opponent, when to jump, and when to use a recover move. Panicking offstage will kill you.

 

[Turk84]

Thanks for the in depth explanation.

 

[1FC0]

There are lots of good reasons to play ROB. Using him as a crutch for bad recovery skills is not one of them. Switching to a character with a unique type of S-tier recovery won't teach you the fundamentals of the game.

I'm not suggesting using R.O.B. as a crutch. Calling him a crutch is implying that other characters can do just as well but need more skill. However, that is not the case. Other characters cannot do as well, no matter how skillfully they are used. R.O.B. can get back from anywhere and Mario cannot do that.

Also, if a character would make certain skills unnecessary then those skills are not the fundamentals of the game. The fundamentals of the game are important with every character, and thus every character teaches them. Recovering with an inferior recovery is not a fundamental of the game, it's a fundamental of many characters. One only needs to learn it if he is going to play one of those characters.


But if you really like Mario and want to use this inferior character, here's a small tip: He's got a wall jump too. It's a decent way to get extra height and mix up your recovery. It's not as good as Robo Burner since wall jumping needs a wall, but for an inferior character it's about as good as it gets.

 

[Turk84]

As I unlock characters I’m gonna see which one works best. I wanna fight R.O.B again

 

[JiggyNinja]

I'm not suggesting using R.O.B. as a crutch.

Except that's exactly what you did. OP says (in a very roundabout way) that they have poor recovery skills, and you suggest using ROB because his recovery is better than Mario's. That is a crutch; using the excellent properties of certain character to cover for poor skills.

Calling him a crutch is implying that other characters can do just as well but need more skill.

Actually it's the exact opposite. Because his recovery is so much better than all the other characters, mistakes at the lower levels are much less punishing. A large amount of the cast can be gimped pretty easily if you hit them with the right attacks at the right time, especially if you can clip their jump. Absent an outright meteor spike, ROB requires a sustained effort to keep him off stage until his fuel is exhausted. The fact that recovery mistakes are so much less severe for him is what gives him the properties of a crutch. You can mess up once or twice and still get another chance to get in.

I am NOT saying that everyone who plays ROB is using him as a recovery crutch. I am not that stupid. But anyone that plays him just because they suck at recovering with the other characters is. And that is what you suggested to Turk84.

Also, if a character would make certain skills unnecessary then those skills are not the fundamentals of the game. The fundamentals of the game are important with every character, and thus every character teaches them. Recovering with an inferior recovery is not a fundamental of the game, it's a fundamental of many characters. One only needs to learn it if he is going to play one of those characters.

That's quite a narrow view of what a "fundamental" is. One character having a gimmick that's different does not mean something isn't fundamental to the game. Even if you're using the gimmick character, you still need to understand how all the other characters are going to try to recover, and most characters follow just a few standard templates.

But if you really like Mario and want to use this inferior character, here's a small tip: He's got a wall jump too. It's a decent way to get extra height and mix up your recovery. It's not as good as Robo Burner since wall jumping needs a wall, but for an inferior character it's about as good as it gets.

I forgot about that. That certainly is an option if you're on a stage with a vertical wall.

 

[Spiny Top]

Except that's exactly what you did. OP says (in a very roundabout way) that they have poor recovery skills, and you suggest using ROB because his recovery is better than Mario's. That is a crutch; using the excellent properties of certain character to cover for poor skills.

I would like to add that ROB’s Robo Burner isn’t quite as easy to recover with as people who don’t use ROB think. It has poor horizontal movement speed and no invulnerability or hit box at any point, so opponents are going to be inclined to jump offstage and try to smack you with an air attack.

You need to be crafty to avoid this. My usual mix ups are to fly high then recover directly onstage with a FF Nair, go low and bait a whiff then up air and recover, or recover flat and go right in for a Fair. Also it is helpful to fire a laser or gyro at the edge guarding opponent before you even up B.

 

[1FC0]

Except that's exactly what you did. OP says (in a very roundabout way) that they have poor recovery skills, and you suggest using ROB because his recovery is better than Mario's. That is a crutch; using the excellent properties of certain character to cover for poor skills.

You still do not get it. I suggested R.O.B. because his recovery is not a crutch. It's the opposite of what you think.

I do not care how easy or hard Mario's or R.O.B.'s recovery is. I was not even looking at that. I was thinking about the fact that Mario sometimes gets knocked so far away that it's impossible for him to recover no matter how good the Mario player is at recovering. So for someone who always wants a chance to recover, practicing Mario's recovery is a waste of time because it won't give you always a chance to recover no matter how good you get.

Just think about it this way: When you want to projectile camp, you must pick a character with projectiles. You cannot make it "hard" on yourself by picking Little Mac and thinking it'll still work. Same with recovering, if you want to always have a shot at recovering, then you need a character that can recover from anywhere. Mario cannot do that regardless of how skillful he's being played. So practicing Mario's recovery is a waste of time unless you are OK with sometimes falling in the pit without having had any chance to recover at all.

If you disagree with that, then try recovering with Mario from a bottom edge of FD. R.O.B. can do it. If R.O.B.'s recovery is a mere crutch then Mario should be able to do it too with enough practice.

That's quite a narrow view of what a "fundamental" is. One character having a gimmick that's different does not mean something isn't fundamental to the game. Even if you're using the gimmick character, you still need to understand how all the other characters are going to try to recover, and most characters follow just a few standard templates.

You get that knowledge from playing against them. You just need to practice whatever you want to get good at. If you want to get good at gimping bad recoveries, then all you need to do is practice gimping them.

I would like to add that ROB’s Robo Burner isn’t quite as easy to recover with as people who don’t use ROB think. It has poor horizontal movement speed and no invulnerability or hit box at any point, so opponents are going to be inclined to jump offstage and try to smack you with an air attack.

You need to be crafty to avoid this. My usual mix ups are to fly high then recover directly onstage with a FF Nair, go low and bait a whiff then up air and recover, or recover flat and go right in for a Fair. Also it is helpful to fire a laser or gyro at the edge guarding opponent before you even up B.

I fully agree with this. R.O.B.'s recovery is not even easy.

- When coming from below R.O.B. needs to waste fuel to defend himself, so if he gets baited into attacking often he'll die. But if he does not attack then he's wide open and easy to gimp.
- When coming from above he's just easy to juggle.
- Coming from the side sounds like a nice mixup but ofcourse his Fair is not the greatest move to cover yourself with, many character outrange it and it's hitbox stays out pretty short.

Recovering with R.O.B. is all about mindgames. In SSBB R.O.B.'s recovery was a free ticket back since he could just recover from below with raising Uairs, but in Smash4 and SSBU recovering with R.O.B. often comes down to tough mindgames.

However when played skillfully enough R.O.B. can always come back. He's not a crutch, but he does always give his player a fair shot at getting back.