How bad is the Corrin MU for Luigi?

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#1
In my opinon, I believe it is a 60:40 corrin favour due his powerful spacing if he wins neutral can effectively shut down luigi until either it is reset or luigi switches position. Corrin's bair on shield can stop luigi on his tracks and he can stop luigi outside of shield with side b/f-smash/f-tilt. However he sucks against pressure and that what luigi excel in form of grabs, if he gets in, it would hard for corrin to get rid of him unless he have breathing room. Your thoughts?
 

sims796

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#2
I agree with this assessment. Corrin's deceptive range abilities, his unbelievable F-smash in particular makes me outright scared to approach carelessly, due to no small fact that the game is still new. But dammit if that dude isn't combo bait. One D-Throw rekz his life something fierce, and out Fireball clangs his Water Ball even at full power, so long as you don't foolishly rush in on him.
 

Xephilon

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#3
I'd say its more of a 50/50, or 55/45 Luigi. While yes Corrin can outspace us, we have 3 things over him that lets us win pretty easily:
1) Projectiles. His projectile has no priority so while he can out range us, we can keep him at bay with fireballs till a good opportunity rises up.
2) Combos. Corrin doesn't have long combos while Luigi has more than enough combos to even the playing field and Corrin has no combo breaker (as far as I know) to beat us. *Note: Careful of strings cause a good counter will screw this over.
3) Down B gimping. Honestly, I find Corrin's recovery as easy to gimp as Fox/Falco's. When they cling, you get sent back to the stage 80% of the time while Corrin falls to his doom.

This is coming from a lot of MU practice with a friend who's maining Corrin and has a good idea about spacing (he used Shulk before as a main) and I beat him 8/10 times. In this MU we just have to play safer and smarter, that's all.
 

Shuckle_SSB

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#4
If played correctly, it definitely seems like a hard MU for Luigi. Spaced Bair is 100% safe on Luigi's shield, So if the Corrin just abuses that in nuutral, they can easily overcome the MU.
 
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#5
Hmm. There is two factors in the mu that is dependent on the MU. One: The corrin skill level. Of course corrin wins in terms of toolset but the problem corrin runs with luigi which xephilon mentioned is pressure. It can work both ways. If the corrin is decent at spacing/shield pressure, Luigi is heavily unfavoured. However Luigi is especially good at comboing corrin since he is just the right weight to combo, hard. Two: It is neutral dependent. I explained in the OP but I repeat. Corrin can outright dominate if he wins due to luigi weaknesses. Poor airspeed makes him juggling with uair/down b if luigi nairs. poor traction can make corrin hard to approach if the spacing is right and trades with fireball. On the other end of the spectrum: Luigi can combo hard and can kill off of a a bad timed side b/powershielded f-smash/sh uair with his kill moves. And luigi mashing ability comes to play if luigi trys to gimp with down b but from the angle corrin need to recover efficiently, luigi can shut it down with bair or if you are good at mashing, down b. (haven't tried the trick)

After playing some and coming up with new facts, I can safety say it is 50:50 due it is a neutral dependent mu and corrin skill level.
 

Shuckle_SSB

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#6
It just seems like you're trying to defend Luigi's side of the MU instead of think about it logically.
 

Shuckle_SSB

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#8
When talking about an MU you have to take both character's abilities into consideration, as well as discuss the most probable outcome when both players are of equal skill.
"Hmm. There is two factors in the mu that is dependent on the MU. One: The corrin skill level." So he is basically saying if the Corrin player isn't as good as the Luigi player, Corrin loses the MU. But if the Luigi player is better, then they win. That's just common sense, not MU discussion lol. He's basically saying if the Corrin sucks, Luigi wins. Nah man.
 

Mileo279

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#9
When talking about an MU you have to take both character's abilities into consideration, as well as discuss the most probable outcome when both players are of equal skill.
"Hmm. There is two factors in the mu that is dependent on the MU. One: The corrin skill level." So he is basically saying if the Corrin player isn't as good as the Luigi player, Corrin loses the MU. But if the Luigi player is better, then they win. That's just common sense, not MU discussion lol. He's basically saying if the Corrin sucks, Luigi wins. Nah man.
I don't think that's what ment its more of matchup familiarity for the spacing
 

Yonder

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#10
When talking about an MU you have to take both character's abilities into consideration, as well as discuss the most probable outcome when both players are of equal skill.
"Hmm. There is two factors in the mu that is dependent on the MU. One: The corrin skill level." So he is basically saying if the Corrin player isn't as good as the Luigi player, Corrin loses the MU. But if the Luigi player is better, then they win. That's just common sense, not MU discussion lol. He's basically saying if the Corrin sucks, Luigi wins. Nah man.
When he is explaining each characters advantages and disadvantages though, then it is more or less nullified. I think he's trying to say that both characters have x amount of advantages and disadvantages to make it even, so the skill level of whatever player will determine who wins.
 

sims796

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#11
But he didn't say that, he said "If the corrin is decent at spacing/shield pressure, Luigi is heavily unfavoured."


I may be wrong, but I thought what in analysis like these, we must assume that the opponent is a master at what their character can do.
 

Yonder

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#12
But he didn't say that, he said "If the corrin is decent at spacing/shield pressure, Luigi is heavily unfavoured."


I may be wrong, but I thought what in analysis like these, we must assume that the opponent is a master at what their character can do.
I guess that is some poor wording. Personally I feel it's in Corrin's favor slightly, but I don't play the matchup often. All I can contribute is that Corrin's projectile sucks and can be cancelled by Luigi's fireball or nair
 

sims796

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#13
I agree. I mean, I just have For Gory, but Corrin's pretty laggy, and oh god, combo bait.

I hate his forward smash though. Most poorly thought out move in the game. Kills early, deceptively ridiculous range, and doesn't leave her too open. Against Luigi's shield, it makes it even more safe.
 

MockRock

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#14
I think Corrin wins; Luigi's poor traction combined with Corrin's great range means that Luigi can get outspaced pretty easily. That being said, I think Luigi's biggest asset in this matchup is his Fireballs. Some of Corrin's best moves are Dragon Fang Shot and Dragon Lunge, and pestering projectiles shut those moves down pretty hard. Luigi also gets a ton off of a throw if he does get in. I think it goes to Corrin, but I don't think the matchup ratio is too lopsided.
 
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Xephilon

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#15
Ok let me explain some things about this MU:

1) Yes Corrin has more range than Luigi BUT what are his approach options? He HAS to approach via air (as most ground moves either make him stay still or are pretty bad). When he does this, pelt him with fireballs and eventually it will lead to a good situation for us since he has no answer for it.

I mean sure, if we go on the offensive, Corrin may be able to keep us at bay for a while and give us 30% damage give or take but Luigi can dish out around 50% with one grab (and that 30% mostly comes from us being reckless for a grab).

2) Corrin's recovery is as gimpable as Fox/Falco's but made even EASIER. Just get hit by it, your down B cancels and he will fall to his death. Barely even have to try to get a kill this way, putting Corrin at a HUGE disadvantage.

3) Corrin's counter is both something good and something bad for us. If you're an inexperienced player, you're gonna get killed by this...a lot...BUT if you're experienced, you learn when is the best time to bait it out and then punish accordingly (possibly getting the kill). I barely get caught by it anymore due to practice with a friend of mine who has a Corrin secondary.

So in the end, what advantage does Corrin have over Luigi? Range and recovery length. That's it. Luigi beats him pretty much everywhere else but it doesn't mean it'll be that easy for Luigi. In the end, this is more of a 50-50 to 60-40 Luigi's favor.
 

Tomazzz

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#17
Slightly in Corrin favor...luigis only way to deal consistent damage is fireball, getting in is very tough and Corrin uair beats our nair also tipper side b kills very early.....down b gimp is the only safe kill option for us being that u smash is very hard to land you'll find yourself getting Corrin over 150% quite often in this mu
 
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#18
Its lowkey 50-50 because you have multiple options to beat their side b, spacing is punishable (mostly because of your greater speed and Luigi beating side b with basically every aerial.), and you get practically free gimps. The real problem with the matchup is landing against corrin, which isn't to hard to do.
 
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G. Stache

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#19
I'd hate to revamp a dying thread, but how do people deal with Corrin's side b? I admit I have almost zero good experience against Corrin, so when I finally face a competent one I can't even win a game. So I guess I'd just like to know what other Luigi mains do for side b counter play
 

HybridFlames

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#20
I'd hate to revamp a dying thread, but how do people deal with Corrin's side b? I admit I have almost zero good experience against Corrin, so when I finally face a competent one I can't even win a game. So I guess I'd just like to know what other Luigi mains do for side b counter play
my best advice is:
if they do it to much and you see it coming a up smash with luigi will do the trick it all depends on how much you fall for kamui's side b but just watch how they play zoning them out with fire balls or even spacing a few f-airs until you close in and get a grab will help. Shielding is a good option as well if they do the side b from far away short hopping into a fire ball can set up for a grab or even short hopping to jumble your opponent up will help as well it's hard for luigi since he has to get up close to get grabs and combos but my overall advice here is spacing your self out and watching for the side b since it's going come one way or the other

this isn't expert advice but i hope this helps (these are my methods)
 
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