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Hospital fires EIGHT veteran nurses because they refused to take flu shot for religio

Claire Diviner

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2255814/Hospital-fires-EIGHT-veteran-nurses-refused-flu-shot-religious-reasons.html

An Indiana hospital has fired eight employees, many of them veteran nurses, because they refused to take the flu vaccine.

IU Health Goshen is just the latest hospital to force its employees to receive the jab and fire or discipline the ones who object.

At least four of the nurses who was terminated tried to appeal the vaccine on religious grounds with the help of a lawyer. The hospital rejected their arguments and fired them anyway.

The Elkhart Truth reports that the hospital informed its staff in early September that vaccinations would be mandatory for all employees.

The hospital said it was following guidelines from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the American Medical Association, which both recommend mandatory vaccinations for employees.

'As a hospital and health system, our top priority is and should be patient safety, and we know that hospitalized people with compromised immune systems are at a greater risk for illness and death from the flu,' hospital spokeswoman Melanie McDonald told the newspaper.

'The flu has the highest death rate of any vaccine preventable disease, and it would be irresponsible from our perspective for health care providers to ignore that.'

The nurses, though, say the mandate tramples on their own deeply-held religious beliefs.

'I feel like in my personal faith walk, I have felt instructed not to get a flu vaccination, but it’s also the whole matter of the right to choose what I put in my body and what I feel God wants me to put in versus someone mandating what I put in,' Joyce Gingerich told the Truth.

Ms Gingerich, an oncology nurse who worked at the hospital in Goshen for 25 years, said she didn't want to leave her patients or her job - but she said she couldn't compromise her religious beliefs.

Sue Schrock, a hospice nurse, said she has not had a flu vaccine for 30 years as a result of a choice she made because of her Christian faith.

She said compromising that position was unthinkable.
If one doesn't want their flu shot for whatever reason, that's their prerogative. When you're a nurse taking care of patients that are very sick and susceptible to disease, flu shots are kind of a requirement there.

It's funny, because I don't recall any Christian teachings, including words from Jesus or one of the Ten Commandments saying "thou shalt not receive flu shots (or any vaccine for that matter)".


:phone:
 

Teran

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I'm just surprised there were eight religious nutjobs working in one hospital.
 

Jon Farron

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The question is.... what's in the Flu shots that they didn't wanna use it for? I feel like there's more to the story here than just "religious nutjobs refused flu shot". If they haven't had a Flu shot for 30 years and have been perfectly fine, why decide to fire them now? It doesn't click right.
 

Mic_128

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The question is.... what's in the Flu shots that they didn't wanna use it for? I feel like there's more to the story here than just "religious nutjobs refused flu shot".
I did a quick google search and came upon this nugget.

The Bible teaches that the body is “The temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own. For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.” (1 Corinthians 6:19-20)
and then saying that because the flu shots and other immunisations contain a tiny portion of the flu/disease, they won't.

Honestly, that's fine though. If they don't want to, that's their choice and is perfectly valid. It doesn't mean that they get to ignore requirements for their job, both from a health standpoint (if they're surrounded by people with the flu, it's not far off that they'll get it too and help spread it) or a business end (if all your nurses get infected and have to go on sick leave, who's going to be helping in the hospital?).
 

Jon Farron

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because the flu shots and other immunisations contain a tiny portion of the flu/disease, they won't.
Ah, that makes much more sense.

I also find it ironic that one of the nurses is a hospice nurse, hospice KILLS people. So... you can't have a flu shot but it's ok to kill people? Yeah, that makes sense.
 

Chronodiver Lokii

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hospice =/= killing people
Hospice is a place where the terminally ill or ill-but-dont-have-to-stay-in-the-hopsital go. It's a place where you can be cared for and comforted while you are on your way to death. Yes, they probably have some "pull the plug" sort of deals there, but for the most part, hospice is a humane place where people can be cared for and treated humanely before they die.
 

theeboredone

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A bit related, but Hobby Lobby is going to refuse giving their employees contraceptives when Obamacare kicks in due to the owners/creators "personal beliefs". To the point they are willing to pay the fines yearly to adhere to it.

So if religious people can get fired due to not adhering to company policy, can companies founded by religious employees fire those who instill on the owner's religious beliefs?
 

Jon Farron

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My grandmother was starved to death in hospice, and drugged so she couldn't ask for food. That=killing people. >c


But my question still remains, if they hadn't had a flu shot for 25-30 years, why decide to force them to get it now or get fired?
 

GoldShadow

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I totally agree with what's already been said. They absolutely should have been fired. The only thing I'm confused about is what White Mage also brought up:
If they haven't had a Flu shot for 30 years and have been perfectly fine, why decide to fire them now? It doesn't click right.
Why were they allowed to work there for so long if they hadn't been getting flu shots?
 

Claire Diviner

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Why were they allowed to work there for so long if they hadn't been getting flu shots?
Was mandatory flu shots a recent thing or was this policy in place for years? If the latter, then I would like to know why these women were allowed to work as nurses, unless they either lied about receiving flu shots, or the hospital simply never bothered screening them.

:phone:
 

PsychoIncarnate

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Was mandatory flu shots a recent thing or was this policy in place for years? If the latter, then I would like to know why these women were allowed to work as nurses, unless they either lied about receiving flu shots, or the hospital simply never bothered screening them.

:phone:
You'd think if they were proud enough of their religion they would fight their job, they'd be proud enough not to lie like that. Since lying is most likely against their religion as well
 

Mic_128

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My grandmother was starved to death in hospice, and drugged so she couldn't ask for food. That=killing people. >c
I'm sorry to hear that, but just because one is scummy, doesn't mean they all are.

A bit related, but Hobby Lobby is going to refuse giving their employees contraceptives when Obamacare kicks in due to the owners/creators "personal beliefs". To the point they are willing to pay the fines yearly to adhere to it.
Employees are legally required to be giving staff contraceptives? What?
 

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The idea is that part of providing healthcare to employees that draw benefits is covering birth control under that healthcare plan. Some businesses with a religious foundation, specifically Catholic-based ones, believe this tramples on their beliefs and the federal government has no right to force them to cover it.
 

Chronodiver Lokii

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My grandmother was starved to death in hospice, and drugged so she couldn't ask for food. That=killing people. >c
That's just illegal. Hospice is a place for people to pass in dignity, not to be mistreated :c that's awful what that place did

:phone:
 

Jon Farron

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I know, we would've definitely tried to sue them if we had the money.
 

Kal

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If they haven't had a Flu shot for 30 years and have been perfectly fine, why decide to fire them now? It doesn't click right.
There are several strains of Influenza, and the virus tends to evolve pretty rapidly. The vaccine is formatted year to year, and the vaccine from one year may be ineffective the following year. It's rather inconsequential that they haven't had a flu shot for the past thirty years; even if this means that they thus far have not needed the vaccine, they would still need it for the following year. Also, the fact that they have not had the vaccination for thirty years does not mean that they have not gotten the Flu.

And they were fired now because the policy was enacted recently.
 

Sephiroths Masamune

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It's funny, because I don't recall any Christian teachings, including words from Jesus or one of the Ten Commandments saying "thou shalt not receive flu shots (or any vaccine for that matter)".

:phone:
I'm really tired and am going to get straight to the point.

bla bla bla, I agree with the hospital. K now you know I'm not biased on my next comment.

You must be pretty ignorant with a comment like this. I get that it's crazy that they're doing what they're doing but they're probably taking this crazy thing from the idea that your body is a temple and you should treat it as such. And some people think stabbing yourself with a piece of metal and injecting a disease is probably not the best idea. Obviously this is an extremist view of the subject, but you get the idea.

At least try to understand people/their decisions before making crass comments on religions and views.
 

Kal

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Well, you're not really injecting the virus itself but purified and inactivated antibodies from the virus. There is actually no risk of acquiring the Flu from the vaccine.
 

Jon Farron

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Well, you're not really injecting the virus itself but purified and inactivated antibodies from the virus. There is actually no risk of acquiring the Flu from the vaccine.
BUT, it is completely possible to have flu like symptoms for a few days.
 

Kal

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As far as I know, the possible side effects are a low grade fever and inflammation and soreness where the shot was given. Since the vaccination is inactivated, I doubt you would experience any "Flu-like symptoms," unless something as vague as "low grade fever" counts.
 

Jon Farron

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My mother is a diabetic and is required to get the shot every year. Every time she gets it she's always on the couch for a few days "with the flu" even though it's not really a full blown thing, she's definitely sick after getting it.
 

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But my question still remains, if they hadn't had a flu shot for 25-30 years, why decide to force them to get it now or get fired?
It was the hospital's policy for nurses to get a flu shot.
These nurses didn't get a flu shot.
Ergo, they're fired for not following company policy.

There's also the fact that I'm 99.99% sure that hospital is full of people with weakened immune systems.

And why are you so against this, anyway? Aren't you for private businesses setting whatever policies it wants?
 

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I wasn't aware of any Christians against vaccine. Something I dislike about region is that practitioners often follow whatever principles their preachers tell them to even if it's not a necessarily a part of the faith.

It's too bad some compromise couldn't have been made.
 

Claire Diviner

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You must be pretty ignorant with a comment like this. I get that it's crazy that they're doing what they're doing but they're probably taking this crazy thing from the idea that your body is a temple and you should treat it as such. And some people think stabbing yourself with a piece of metal and injecting a disease is probably not the best idea. Obviously this is an extremist view of the subject, but you get the idea.

At least try to understand people/their decisions before making crass comments on religions and views.
Excuse me, but what I said about Christianity where modifying the body was nowhere in the teachings isn't ignorant or crass. Hell, it wasn't even looking down on the religion. What the nurses were doing was using their religion to justify their choice of not getting vaccinated when said religion does not forbid such a thing in any way, so I'm commenting on their half-***ed excuse, and not their religion. I suggest you pay closer attention to what people say before coming off as crass yourself.

:phone:
 

Sephiroths Masamune

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That's not what you said. You made a "joke" by quoting a well known phrase then modifying it in such a way to dumb it down and take it out of context in a sarcastic manor. Dunno about you but I consider that crass. I have NO quarry with your opinion. Just your words.
 

Claire Diviner

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That's not what you said. You made a "joke" by quoting a well known phrase then modifying it in such a way to dumb it down and take it out of context in a sarcastic manor. Dunno about you but I consider that crass. I have NO quarry with your opinion. Just your words.
Your problem is that you read way too deep into it, taking those words way too seriously. Also, I meant what I said about the fact that there are no teachings in the religion revolving around vaccines, or even body modification. If you're going to get butthurt over the fact that what I say is true, even if my words are sarcastic, though not intentionally "crass" as you say, then that's your personal problem, don't make it mine.

:phone:
 

Claire Diviner

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AKA: Yeah, I can make offensive comments. No, you can't get mad at me for doing so.
The problem is that it wasn't supposed to be offensive, nor was I insulting the religion directly. You seem to be the only one who has a problem with my "thou shalt not receive flu shots" comment. If that comment is the thing you allow to bring about a rain of piss on your day, then that's your issue.

:phone:
 

Oneupsalesman

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Weird. I'm a Christian and I have no problem with flu shots; that being said, Christianity isn't the only religion/belief system out there.
 
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