Honest question, why do people still care about single player content so much?

MG_3989

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#1
Ok so I've heard a ton of complaints about the lack of single player content in the game, and don't get me wrong I would love break the targets, homerun contest, and a stage builder, but it's not all that important. I honestly could do without another subspace it was a cool add on but that's not what kept me playing Brawl

I genuinely think that the time and recourses the team spent on character design and competive balance and bringing literally everybody back is SO much more important than any single player and I'm thankful they choose this route. A single player experience like Subspace would've taken away valuable time and resources and allocated them in a place that's not the core of Smash

I'm not against single player content at all and if we get something like break the targets, home run contest, or even a Subspace type campaign I would be happy. However I wouldn't be happy if that took away resources and development time from Joker and other DLC characters and further balance patches to the game (not even gonna mention fixing online because we all want the to happen obviously lmao)

My assumption is that everyone would've bought the game with zero or bare bones single player content like most fighting games have and been happy with it. Let's be honest Subspace wasnt amazing in the first place, I enjoyed it but I wouldn't have missed it if it was the in Brawl. If you want to play a single player game there are so many out there better than something like Subspace. I understand thing like break the targets and home run contest and stage builder would be great additions to the game but they aren't make or break in the slightest

So I guess my question to people pushing for single player content is would you guys be happier with a somewhat less competively balanced game, with less characters, with less stages, less music, etc...if it meant something like Subspace and more single player content? The team only has so much time and so many resources to make the game so there would have to be some sort of trade-off for more single player content (especially something as huge as Subspace). I'm not trying to offend anyone or call anyone out I genuinely want to hear opinions on this
 

nudie mags

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#2
I think it all boils down to: Not every person wants to play comp smash, not everyone has the internet available to support an already shoddy infrastructure.

By definition, fighting games are competitive, but smash adds challenges and things that make it more of a party game for the single player aspects. To me, it's the same question as "Why do people play with items on?" Because they're doing what's fun for them.
 

MG_3989

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#4
I think it all boils down to: Not every person wants to play comp smash, not everyone has the internet available to support an already shoddy infrastructure.

By definition, fighting games are competitive, but smash adds challenges and things that make it more of a party game for the single player aspects. To me, it's the same question as "Why do people play with items on?" Because they're doing what's fun for them.
And I completely understand that. I love to play competively and when it boils down to it Smash is a fighting game with party elements and a super broad appeal and different ways to play which is great. I love a good free for all with items on as much as the next guy. I understand people enjoy the game for different reasons but whether competive or casual multiplayer is what makes Smash

It's not like spending more times on balancing and fitting every character ever in Smash and giving us all the fan service in the world doesn't benefit casual players as well. It benefits them immenesly and that balance between casual and competive players both having an amazing game is what's unique and amazing about Smash, but that's off topic. I'm sure if we took a poll of casual players they'd much rather have more characters and stages and songs than Subspace 2.0

As for online I agree with you and that must be improved. That's literally what's missing from this game

I don't need another game in a game like Subspace Emissary, but I like to have some single player content. Spirits and Classic Modes were pretty satisfying in this game for me, and I wouldn't ask for more with the price of less characters.
That's my view on it. I really enjoy classic mode and spirits are cool to collect and mess around with and World of Light was more than they needed to do for a fighting/party game. I'm not advocating for cutting all single player content, that would be bad. We just don't need another Subspace. Honestly if they were to do that I'd prefer if they released it as a spinoff and I'd definitely buy it
 
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Orlando BCN

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#5
Smash is a different fighting game, so well-delivered single player modes are imperative. This series is special because it appeals to both the casual and competitive audience, and it shouldn’t take one side over the other. Other games can get away with it (while still in bad practice) because they’re meant for players who only want to grind and nothing more.
 

MG_3989

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#6
Smash is a different fighting game, so well-delivered single player modes are imperative. This series is special because it appeals to both the casual and competitive audience, and it shouldn’t take one side over the other. Other games can get away with it (while still in bad practice) because they’re meant for players who only want to grind and nothing more.
I'm not saying that Smash should prioritize one player base over the other at all but I'm willing to bet the casual player base cares way more about having a ton of characters, stages, songs, fan service and super fun multiplayer over a single player experience. Neither fighting games nor party games need a great single player experience. Why would you allocate too many valuable resources to single player when the multiplayer is what everyone is buying it for? Casual Smash to me is playing FFAs with my friends not a story mode

There needs to be something but never at the cost of the multiplayer which again benefits both competive and casual players greatly. It's not like there isn't a great single player experience in Ultimate with tons of fan service and tons to collect. I still get excited at certain spirits and songs. I still haven't even played every character in the game. Theres so much to unlock and explore. They put more effort than they had to into it
 

nudie mags

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#7
It's not like spending more times on balancing and fitting every character ever in Smash and giving us all the fan service in the world doesn't benefit casual players as well.
I'm not up for it, but I'm sure there could be counter points made here that say the balance patches and competitive benefits of characters are only scene in more fast paced play. For example, for casual play, someone may choose ganon, and instead of having to counter ganon as a player, they get the wind bellows and push him off edge.

I believe casual play allows for more party elements which can effectively nullify balances put into the game for the comp community.
 

MG_3989

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#8
I'm not up for it, but I'm sure there could be counter points made here that say the balance patches and competitive benefits of characters are only scene in more fast paced play. For example, for casual play, someone may choose ganon, and instead of having to counter ganon as a player, they get the wind bellows and push him off edge.

I believe casual play allows for more party elements which can effectively nullify balances put into the game for the comp community.
I'm not arguing prioritizing competive players over casual players at all. But the balancing on competive play will benefit competive players and won't even affect the casual player. So why not give the competive players maticulus balancing? It's not like Ultimate didn't introduce an entire spirit system for casual play. I think Ultimate did a great job juggling between casual and competive

I just don't understand why people want another Subspace when it would've taken time and resources out of the rest of the game
 

osby

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#9
I'm not arguing prioritizing competive players over casual players at all. But the balancing on competive play will benefit competive players and won't even affect the casual player. So why not give the competive players maticulus balancing? It's not like Ultimate didn't introduce an entire spirit system for casual play. I think Ultimate did a great job juggling between casual and competive

I just don't understand why people want another Subspace when it would've taken time and resources out of the rest of the game
Probably because they liked it and wanted to see it again and better.

I think you misnamed this thread, because you seem to question why people want another Subspace Emissary, not why they like single player content.
 

Sean²

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#10
Pretty sure Sakurai/Bandai Namco have developers focusing on single player content and whatnot, and other developers focusing on characters and game balance. I don't think they'd burn character creation resources on single player content. There may be some overlap but likely not much.
 
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MG_3989

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#11
Probably because they liked it and wanted to see it again and better.

I think you misnamed this thread, because you seem to question why people want another Subspace Emissary, not why they like single player content.
Yeah I probably did. I enjoyed Subspace also but I know what they would've had to sacrifice to fit another Subspace in. I would be down for Subspace spin off or DLC in the future. I just don't understand why it's some people's sticking point with the game. It's just something I was thinking about

I do want single player content in the game it just doesn't need to be a huge production imo

I genuinely want to know why people see it as necessary. I also didn't want this to be a casual vs competive argument because it has nothing to do with that
 

Sean²

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#12
I'm going to say, it's mostly nostalgia. People liked the individual BTT levels, and stuff like Board the Platforms. Subspace was a crazy nostalgia feels fest for Nintendo fans, more for the story and cutscenes than the gameplay. Before decent online play, it was like crack for kids and teenagers. That stuff has been basically eradicated from Smash, it's natural to want what once was, but bigger and better.
 

MG_3989

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#13
I'm going to say, it's mostly nostalgia. People liked the individual BTT levels, and stuff like Board the Platforms. Subspace was a crazy nostalgia feels fest for Nintendo fans, more for the story and cutscenes than the gameplay. Before decent online play, it was like crack for kids and teenagers. That stuff has been basically eradicated from Smash, it's natural to want what once was, but bigger and better.
Yeah I get where that's coming from. I mean I've been playing Smash since 64 and Subspace was kind of a footnote for me. Glad it happened once but if we never get another one that's fine with me. However I think Nintendo could make a ton of money on a Subspace DLC/spin off expansion
 

IsmaR

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#14
Because people enjoy different things, and for some the idea of an "ultimate" game includes the replayability the past titles had outside of just standard multiplayer.

Not even counting Subspace, I probably spent the most time in Melee on Classic/Adventure/Event Mode, Boss Battles/Coin Launcher in Brawl, and the most time on Smash Run in Smash for 3DS or Master/Crazy Orders in Smash for Wii U respectively. Not everyone wants the giant/drawn out cinematic experience.

In this game I spend a dumb amount of time doing Spirit Board/building teams for stupid Spirit Battles with friends (maximum speed Sonic vs even slower Incineroar is a sight to behold). But I can see why that doesn't appeal to many others, and why WoL is such a let down in the sense that most play through it once.

We can act like we're the majority/"most would agree with us" without proof, but a lot people play this game. Not everyone is sold on the same things we are.

I'm glad this game was handled the way it was personally, but I wouldn't be opposed to them focusing on modes/other content (more bosses for Classic mode, new Spirit Battles, etc.) down the line and taking their time with any future fighter passes (not like we're in any rush, the fact we're getting content at all is pretty sweet).
 

Predatoria

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#15
For me, personally, I really don't even do the single player content. Even before the advent of online Smash, I rarely did the single player stuff. I always just played the game when friends or family were over. When I'm unable to meet up with others to play irl, now I do online smash over the single player content that exists in-game.

I guess to answer the OP, I'd certainly prefer the time and effort of Smash's development team to be spent on the topics of gameplay balance and enriching the multiplayer experience at the expense of further developing the various single player modes we've seen in past iterations of the game.

The one exception I could give to this was the stage builder, as I did enjoy making stages and playing on them.
 
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#16
In this game I spend a dumb amount of time doing Spirit Board/building teams for stupid Spirit Battles with friends (maximum speed Sonic vs even slower Incineroar is a sight to behold). But I can see why that doesn't appeal to many others, and why WoL is such a let down in the sense that most play through it once..
To be fair tho, you could also say "players only play it through once" in terms of Subspace. Me personally isn't dying to replay its kinda chore-y platforming stuff.
 

Xelrog

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#17
I enjoy completing the challenge wall in Smash games. Honestly, that's the only singleplayer I really care about because it's the only thing that feels like an accomplishment. I can't show off that I beat Classic with every character--that doesn't indicate skill, just time spent. And there's no ingame reward for doing it, so why bother?

All singleplayer content in Smash games is for the sake of being able to do stuff in multiplayer--I only played so much singleplayer in Smash 4 to unlock all the custom moves, which felt very rewarding to have. I like unlocking stuff, but everyone plays the game for different reasons.
 

Wyoming

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#18
Single player is fun for collecting and completing challenges, all while playing in a relatively more relaxing environment.

Multiplayer gives the game life but sometimes I just put the game on for Spirit Board and mini games. I like to mindlessly Smash sometimes.
 
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JiggyNinja

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#19
In this game I spend a dumb amount of time doing Spirit Board/building teams for stupid Spirit Battles with friends (maximum speed Sonic vs even slower Incineroar is a sight to behold). But I can see why that doesn't appeal to many others, and why WoL is such a let down in the sense that most play through it once.
WoL was only a letdown in its lack of story and LACK OF CO-OP!!! (I will never forgive them for that) Some of those battles are delightfully infuriating, especially when they force you to explore the roster to exploit the AI or the attributes of the fight itself.

Geno gives you a timed 5 on 1 match? Warlock Punch's super armor says GET THE **** OUTTA HERE!

Dr. Wily makes you grind through a gauntlet of Metal Mega Men? Ness would like to thank you for the free health recovery and also PK FIRE! PK FIRE! PK FIRE!

Super Star gives both characters lots of invincibility? Then let Cloud channel his inner DBZA Piccolo and get "Chargin' my attack..doo doo, doodoo doo I'mma chargin' my attack"

I love WoL and the Spirit Battles. I'm on like my 4th or 5th NG+ playthrough. If it had more story cut scenes with the exact same gameplay (but with co-op too!) it would have been absolutely perfect. I wanted to play through it with my little sister on release day, when I saw it didn't have co-op I was massively disappointed.
 
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Ice-N-Space

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#21
Ultimate hardly has any modes to play and it changes character attacks for no reason Smash Bros Wii U had a lot more variety and it didn't change attacks.
 

lucasla

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#22
Well, you are just assuming they have no way to adjust the team size, hire more people, or increase the development time of the game, to do more work on building a campaign mode. In that case, it's obvious they need to choose the quality of the core gameplay.
But in my vision, they could do all these things, increase the development time to one more year and build some better campaign. Too bad that the Switch probably couldn't wait too much to have a new big tittle, and Smash needed to be ready at the end of last year.
If they wanted, they could even start developing an expansion with a story mode now, just like the Octo Expansion for Splatoon 2 that added an entire new campaign to the game. Depending on the size of the content, it could even cost half of the price of the game.
 

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#24
I think another problem that Ultimate has was removing features from Smash 3DS / Wii U that could've had a lot of potential if given the chance. This includes custom specials and Smash Run. Smash Tour is forgettable though.
 

Mogisthelioma

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#25
Of course people do, but since so many gamemodes were yoinked from Smash 4 there isn't much to talk about other than Classic mode and Spirits. And considering how much we lost, I find Spirits to be pretty lackluster.
 

KneeOfJustice99

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#26
Ok so I've heard a ton of complaints about the lack of single player content in the game, and don't get me wrong I would love break the targets, homerun contest, and a stage builder, but it's not all that important. I honestly could do without another subspace it was a cool add on but that's not what kept me playing Brawl

I genuinely think that the time and recourses the team spent on character design and competive balance and bringing literally everybody back is SO much more important than any single player and I'm thankful they choose this route. A single player experience like Subspace would've taken away valuable time and resources and allocated them in a place that's not the core of Smash

I'm not against single player content at all and if we get something like break the targets, home run contest, or even a Subspace type campaign I would be happy. However I wouldn't be happy if that took away resources and development time from Joker and other DLC characters and further balance patches to the game (not even gonna mention fixing online because we all want the to happen obviously lmao)

My assumption is that everyone would've bought the game with zero or bare bones single player content like most fighting games have and been happy with it. Let's be honest Subspace wasnt amazing in the first place, I enjoyed it but I wouldn't have missed it if it was the in Brawl. If you want to play a single player game there are so many out there better than something like Subspace. I understand thing like break the targets and home run contest and stage builder would be great additions to the game but they aren't make or break in the slightest

So I guess my question to people pushing for single player content is would you guys be happier with a somewhat less competively balanced game, with less characters, with less stages, less music, etc...if it meant something like Subspace and more single player content? The team only has so much time and so many resources to make the game so there would have to be some sort of trade-off for more single player content (especially something as huge as Subspace). I'm not trying to offend anyone or call anyone out I genuinely want to hear opinions on this
No, I get it completely.

My view is this. Sure, Single Player Content can be enjoyable for people.
At it's heart, Smash is a party game, really, to be played with others, whether at a birthday party or in EVO.
The thing is, that's why no-one plays 1-2 Switch alone; it kind of defeats the object.
However, I don't think that SPC should take the place of music, stages and (god forbid) fighters.
I guess that Sakurai just realises that a lot of us are loners lol
 

SGoW

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#27
You're acting like everyone is a super serious competitive player who cares about Tier Lists and plays with items off, when most people are just casual players who want to have fun, the people that Nintendo markets the game towards. Why do you think items are still in the game? Why do you think they create stages that aren't tournament friendly such as PAC-LAND? It's because the competitive scene isn't the primary focus of the game. Sure, Nintendo knows the competitive scene exists, and that's why they allow you to turn off hazards or choose the omega form of stages, but it quite obviously isn't the focus of the game.

The competitive scene is the minority, not the majority.
 

UserKev

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#28
You're acting like everyone is a super serious competitive player who cares about Tier Lists and plays with items off, when most people are just casual players who want to have fun, the people that Nintendo markets the game towards. Why do you think items are still in the game? Why do you think they create stages that aren't tournament friendly such as PAC-LAND? It's because the competitive scene isn't the primary focus of the game. Sure, Nintendo knows the competitive scene exists, and that's why they allow you to turn off hazards or choose the omega form of stages, but it quite obviously isn't the focus of the game.

The competitive scene is the minority, not the majority.
And also, its not like competitors don't have DOSENS of other actual fighting games they can compete in.
 

TheDuke54

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#29
This game is played by everyone. Not just those who like online or super competitive settings. WoL was cool and the classic story mode was leagues better than Smash4 which seemed like a really weird and unfinished board game. Each story mode had some kind of theme. Like Piranha plant's being fighting all the new comers (I think that's what it was)

Yeah WoL could had been a little less repetitive. If they had more levels like the final stage where you get to choose three fighters to scale to the top to fight the two final forms, that'd make it a lot more fun and refreshing. Collecting spirits is like trophies except without the lore. They could had at least explained what game they debuted in or whatever. But it's still fun to do here or there.

As things are now, online and even friend online is kind of a mixed bag. It's manageable but extremely disappointing at best and a colossal train wreck at its worst. So it's good to have extra content that we can enjoy when online is pretty subpar most of the time.
 

Geicosuave

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#30
I played the **** out of Smash 4 when i got it. Most of my playtime was spent doing modes that aren't just variations on vs matches, like Smash Run, Multi Man, All Star and Home Run Contest. Sometimes I get tired of the basic VS matches so I go and play Century Smash, after a few goes I back out of the menu and all there is other than Century is Classic Mode, so I close Smash Bros and play something else.
WIthout other modes its hard for me to stay engaged, and I don't think i'll be getting similar hours of playtime in Ultimate unless they add more single player modes back in. Spirits are fun, but at the end of the say its still just VS matches. Same with WoL (since its just more Spirits). I'm glad they're adding the stage builder again and I'll have a lot of fun with that, but I still want to see Homerun Contest, Target Blast, etc return.
 

TheDuke54

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#31
Yeah there definitely seems to be the least amount of content this time around. I'm just glad we did get what we did. I would like to see break the target make a come back. Especially if they have one for each character like they did for Melee, but that is unlikely to happen. I can't even see them bringing the generic one they had for Brawl.

I still like Adventure mode for Melee the most. More so because they made stages that paid homage to actual game references. Like escaping the spaceship Ridely trashed in the beginning of Super Metroid. If we had something with levels you have to go through before boss fights and have fights half way through it'd be great.

But again, at least we got what we did.
 

Jaro235

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#33
While I normally play with friends or online, I like to try out the single player modes to take a break from the regular game. I enjoyed playing Smash Bros as a beat’em up during Subspace and Smash Run. It was refreshing from just battles between two characters. Also, I agree that Smash is more or less a game meant to be played with others, but not everyone has the chance to play with others. If the single player content sucks in the game, then there is not much coming back to when you have no one to play Smash with.
 

MG_3989

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#34
You're acting like everyone is a super serious competitive player who cares about Tier Lists and plays with items off, when most people are just casual players who want to have fun, the people that Nintendo markets the game towards. Why do you think items are still in the game? Why do you think they create stages that aren't tournament friendly such as PAC-LAND? It's because the competitive scene isn't the primary focus of the game. Sure, Nintendo knows the competitive scene exists, and that's why they allow you to turn off hazards or choose the omega form of stages, but it quite obviously isn't the focus of the game.

The competitive scene is the minority, not the majority.
But like I've said multiple times this isn't about the competititive scene. This is about the fact that even casual players play mostly with other people and their friends. I was a casual smash player for years until half way through Brawl or so and I never played a ton of single player Smash after the first week or so and I pretty much only played with friends
 

osby

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#35
But like I've said multiple times this isn't about the competititive scene. This is about the fact that even casual players play mostly with other people and their friends. I was a casual smash player for years until half way through Brawl or so and I never played a ton of single player Smash after the first week or so and I pretty much only played with friends
That's the thing, not everyone has friends. :)
 

HAWTLAVA13

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#36
I'll give you my personal reasons for why I care about single player content.

1) It gives me variety and incentivizes me to play Smash more. As much as I love competitive Smash, I get bored or tired of it just like anything else. I can only grind out in training mode and play 1v1's online for so long until I feel a bit drained. It's nice to take a break every once in a while from taking it so seriously and just relax to have some fun.
2) Single player content is ideal for when I take my Switch on the go. I can't really do serious training with the Switch in handheld mode and I lack access to any competitors/training partners so the only thing to do is to play it casually and have some fun, but once you've beaten WOL (which is alright, but get's quite repetitive imo) there's nothing to do.
3) Also, obviously the casual crowd cares about single player content a lot more than most people on this forum and those people make up a large portion of the Smash fanbase, but that should be obvious. I miss the days of sitting around the CRT with my buddies taking turns trying to get high scores in break the targets or home run contest.
 

Xelrog

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#37
Can I ask what people did in previous Smash games? Was it rewarding to you to play Melee's Adventure/Classic/All-Star with every character? Did you find enjoyment in playing Subspace again after you'd beaten it once?

I'm not trying to troll anyone, this is a serious question. I can get the complaint about a lack of singleplayer content, I suppose, but did we really get less value out of this Smash game than previous ones? I think the singleplayer has always been pretty shallow and lacking in replay value, personally, so I don't really treat it like there's no precedent.
 
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#38
Can I ask what people did in previous Smash games? Was it rewarding to you to play Melee's Adventure/Classic/All-Star with every character? Did you find enjoyment in playing Subspace again after you'd beaten it once?

I'm not trying to troll anyone, this is a serious question. I can get the complaint about a lack of singleplayer content, I suppose, but did we really get less value out of this Smash game than previous ones? I think the singleplayer has always been pretty shallow and lacking in replay value, personally, so I don't really treat it like there's no precedent.
Nostalgia goggles plus the innocence of youth does a lot to color perceptions. I know various Sonic games at the time of Melee conditioned me for multiple playthroughs.
 

TheDuke54

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#39
And you know, different strokes for different folks. I like to take a backseat from online play and friends aren't always around so it's nice to have some single player content.
 

Mischiiii

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#40
I feel like the OP. I don’t care about the single player modes except for training mode. I’m happy they focused on the core of smash and i hope they’ll continue doing that.

But i also understand that there are players who can’t deal with competing and really trying to get better because that’s not always fun. I just find it hard to understand people prefer single player smash if they could play a real single player game. Why should you play a Subspace mode if you could just play a jump and run game like mario?
 
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