Hierarchies of Power: The Ganon Community Tier List! (Updated October 8th 2017)

[Ray_Kalm]

Hmm, 10 tournaments, how has his placings been? Relatively good?

And yeah, I can play you for about half an hour in about 2-3 hours from now. That sound good?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Hmm, 10 tournaments, how has his placings been? Relatively good?

And yeah, I can play you for about half an hour in about 2-3 hours from now. That sound good?

To my recollection, he's placed top 8 in some, but gotten eliminated relatively early in some others. He has some pretty serious competition.

Also, sorry. Tonight or tomorrow is not great, as I have family commitments. Sunday in contrast I'd have much more availability.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

To my recollection, he's placed top 8 in some, but gotten eliminated relatively early in some others. He has some pretty serious competition.

Also, sorry. Tonight or tomorrow is not great, as I have family commitments. Sunday in contrast I'd have much more availability.

Okay, I'll let you know what time will work best Sunday.

 

[Blasiancoolio]

Why do I feel like I've never seen any of these guys play ganon? I need moar ganon hype!

 

[Vermanubis]

Why do I feel like I've never seen any of these guys play ganon? I need moar ganon hype!

Most of the players people ever see are the ones on VGBC and Clash, so it's not entirely surprising.

 

[Garioshi]

I might have time later today. Will post if I do.

 

[Zhouten]

Hah, I don't deserve to be on this list. My Ganon can no longer compete with any of yours!

 

[Garioshi]

I bodied a Luigi after he kicked my WFT's ass. http://www.hitbox.tv/video/568672/description
Starts at about 42 minutes.

 

[Garioshi]

A2, I know there's a no johns policy, but those ****ing lag spikes.

 

[A2ZOMG]

A2, I know there's a no johns policy, but those ****ing lag spikes.

yeah, I left for that reason. Don't worry, I'm understanding. we should try again sometime. I dunno if someone in my house also was using the internet.

 

[Garioshi]

I think it was Ghasts's connection. He's an amazing Lucas/Pikachu/Duck Hunt, but his Internet is god-awful.

 

[Deotay]

Hey, thanks for adding me to the list. Hopefully I'll improve throughout this summer.

 

[Sykkamorre]

Best edgeguard reversals: Ray Kalm and Gungnir.

Also, Tarry for B tier.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

@ A2ZOMG : Currently I have the best placings as Ganon, and although I very much consider Gungnir to be the only Ganon better in skill than me, I would say that tournament placements should be the top priority in considering the placing with this list.

Also, when are you planning to announce the second Ganon tournament?

 

[A2ZOMG]

@ A2ZOMG : Currently I have the best placings as Ganon, and although I very much consider Gungnir to be the only Ganon better in skills than me, I would say that tournament placements should be the top priority in considering the placing with this list.

Also, when are you planning to announce the second Ganon tournament?

*3rd Ganon Tournament (remember that the first one was for Brawl?). I guess since you bugged me about it, I think I'll publicly announce it this weekend, on Smashboards, Facebook, Twitter, and Youtube (once I provide the link to signups anyone else can distribute the information wherever they feel is appropriate). The main uncertainty I have is when to cap things, and when to actually run the tournament, but I guess there isn't any harm in just getting it out there.

I highly suggest you look up Ganon the Beast. While I wish I was able to contact him, I believe he may in fact have very similar if not better skill levels compared to you. But yeah, your results are very admirable.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

*3rd Ganon Tournament (remember that the first one was for Brawl?). I guess since you bugged me about it, I think I'll publicly announce it this weekend, on Smashboards, Facebook, Twitter, and Youtube (once I provide the link to signups anyone else can distribute the information wherever they feel is appropriate). The main uncertainty I have is when to cap things, and when to actually run the tournament, but I guess there isn't any harm in just getting it out there.

I highly suggest you look up Ganon the Beast. While I wish I was able to contact him, I believe he may in fact have very similar if not better skill levels compared to you. But yeah, your results are very admirable.

Yeah, the third .

Yeah, I saw your posts where you mentioned that you don't consider my Ganon as the playstyle to judge or emulate match-ups off of. I disagree with you on this very much. Ganon has a lot of different styles to play as, they can all work.

How I play is working out just fine. It's the results at the end of the screen which matters, not the playstyle during the game play.

'Ganon the Beast'? Never heard of him before.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Yeah, the third .

Yeah, I saw your posts where you mentioned that you don't consider my Ganon as the playstyle to judge or emulate match-ups off of. I disagree with you on this very much. Ganon has a lot of different styles to play as, they can all work.

How I play is working out just fine. It's the results at the end of the screen which matters, not the playstyle during the game play.

'Ganon the Beast'? Never heard of him before.

Oh I agree Ganon has multiple viable playstyles. Your playstyle at the very least proves that Ganon can always turn small mistakes into catastrophic ones, and that for the most part this means he can beat anyone on a good day.

Sometimes though, I feel your matchup advice is actually totally different from how you actually play in tournament. Nothing really wrong with it, just...it's kinda strange at times.

Ganon the Beast is the top ranked player in Minnesota. He consistently seems to place top 8 in large tournaments. I think @DLA said he placed 7th in a 200+ man tournament? https://www.youtube.com/user/MinnesotaSmash

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Oh I agree Ganon has multiple viable playstyles. Your playstyle at the very least proves that Ganon can always turn small mistakes into catastrophic ones, and that for the most part this means he can beat anyone on a good day.

Or on any day. Many characters can capitalize very well, not just Ganon. Ganon has moves built for that. But there's much more to Ganon than just having to wait and capitalize in order to win (or to prove that Ganon is a viableish character).

 

[Vermanubis]

Yeah, the third .

Yeah, I saw your posts where you mentioned that you don't consider my Ganon as the playstyle to judge or emulate match-ups off of. I disagree with you on this very much. Ganon has a lot of different styles to play as, they can all work.

How I play is working out just fine. It's the results at the end of the screen which matters, not the playstyle during the game play.

'Ganon the Beast'? Never heard of him before.

I agree, they can all work -- provided the person plays a certain way. Lemme preface this, so you don't think I'm just firing shots, that you have my concrete respect as a top Ganon; you know your ****, and you play like you mean it. But the point A2 made, and the one I'm sure you saw I made if you saw his post, was that if one were to emulate your general MO in a given MU, they would have variable success. In other words, the times I've personally witnessed you go into a MU where the person demonstrated experience in the MU (Yoh, M2K, Chrim, V115, etc.) you were forced to play in a way that seemed a bit uncomfortable.

Not to imply ignorance/knowledge of the MU would meaningfully change things one way or the other, but it's ultimately a matter of consistency -- that is, is playstyle "A" going to win you one match, then get you bodied the next, or is it one that is fundamentally sound, i.e. anyone can emulate it and the potential for negative exploitation is minimal.

Wanna say again, not firing shots, just making observations. I'm totally open to criticisms about my playstyle as well -- I'm positive you guys could give me tremendous insight to things I'm not seeing.

 

[A2ZOMG]

@ Vermanubis I'm biased and actually identify very positively with your playstyle, given what I've seen of it so far. You play very solid defense and are very good at making the most of Ganon's range in neutral.

The last vids I saw of you, I felt like you probably weren't always sure how to edgeguard (it's matchup dependent, and I know that it's not always easy for you to make it to tournaments). Dunno what else to say atm.

 

[Sykkamorre]

Another ganon tourney? I'll be there in a heartbeat.

Also in regards to A2, I see where he's coming from. I for one tried to emulate you ray, and it's HARD. Probably because you have a talent at capitalizing that few people have.

In a weird way, you're like red muscle. Explosive bursts of power.
While people like Verm are like white muscle, who release the same amount of power all throughout matches.

Doesn't mean that either are less viable, if anything ray's style might be more effective, but the others are easier to recreate.

 

[jmanup85]

A Ganon tourney? I'm all in.

I've been over this in the skype chat about @ Ray_Kalm playstyle. I think that it's an awesome playstyle but you need such an open mind to alot of possibilities in a MU and then you need to tech skill to do it at any given point in time. Actually me and A2 were discussing it and an argument could be made that your reaction time is probably the best out of all the Ganon's I've seen. I'm sure that your style is tough to imitate for some people like A2 because he seems to be scientific in his approach and from what I've seen you definitely know our stuff but you just go in there guns blazing. It's really effective and when you do some good stuff in a match it's borderline perfect because you react so fast.

Personally I can try to emulate you but I have no idea what your mindset is in a match although it think watching you is the most hype stuff in all of Sm4sh. I know I stole the double uair string you do and just like all the top Ganon's I'm improving my offstage play bit by bit. My question to you guys is how much do you train to get good with your hands so they react the way that they do because I think I just need to lab way more to get my hands to move the way I want.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Gungnir actually clearly has the best reaction time of all the Ganon mains we know of.

I know it's to an extent conjecture, but there's probably no other way to explain for instance why he gets so many more regular grabs than any other Ganon main. Ray_Kalm certainly has above average fundamentals in many areas, but compared to Gungnir he definitely doesn't have the same level of precision in his decisions, and is more just really good at figuring out people when it matters.

I actually suspect Ganon the Beast probably is pretty close to Gungnir's skill level when it comes to reaction time as well. Gungnir however likely knows the game better as a whole, outside of customs. While I wish I had more footage to work with, as well as the ability to contact Ganon the Beast, he's almost certainly a candidate for S-tier at least.

 

[Opana]

Sign me up for the dorf tourney.

@ A2ZOMG Do you have any tips for me based off my recent replays or games we've played? I very much would love to be on higher level with dorf, although I don't know where to go from here. I think that may be why I wanted to use a top tier, I feel like I'm staying still skill wise while others are improving such as Ray. I don't know where I excel and where I need work. I don't want my spot t move at all until I can attend a tourney or two worth noting, but I'd really like to stick with Ganon if possible. I'm free Sunday and would like to play some of the great U owning dorfs here for their thoughts if possible.

Also, I sometimes give advice and don't seem to follow it too, I think in the moment it's hard to always play how you want to and totally understand.

Should I upload recent games?

 

[Scarlet Jile]

Man, I've been watching Gungir's stream a lot lately, and I still think he's just leagues above everyone else when it comes to raw talent. This man is unreal to watch.

@ Opana I'd be down to play some games some time. I love playing good Ganons, so I can absorb all their technology into my brain haha.

 

[jmanup85]

Man, I've been watching Gungir's stream a lot lately, and I still think he's just leagues above everyone else when it comes to raw talent. This man is unreal to watch.

@ Opana I'd be down to play some games some time. I love playing good Ganons, so I can absorb all their technology into my brain haha.

what's his stream?

 

[Scarlet Jile]

what's his stream?

http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv227802832

 

[TheArabSamurai]

Dang, still not on here yet A2Z? :o I'd love to know where you'd place me so I can improve further! :D

 

[A2ZOMG]

Dang, still not on here yet A2Z? :o I'd love to know where you'd place me so I can improve further! :D

C-Tier is a bit of a mess right now but I would say you're in the upper region of that. The rough criteria of tiers sorta works like this:

S/A = amazing tournament results and/or really insane demonstrations against other strong players + superior knowledge and execution of advanced tech
B = Superior knowledge of advanced tech/gimmicks and above average execution of it
C = Strong mechanical familiarity with Ganon, beginning to pick up advanced tech
D = Acquiring proficiency with Ganon
E = New to the Dark Lord

 

[Scarlet Jile]

Dang, all these Ganons appearing on Smashboards and getting ranked higher than me. Need to start stepping up my ditto game, haha.

 

[Opana]

I want to move up too but really don't think I should until I enter more recent tourneys. I do think I've improved in a lot of ways just from fighting more experienced players though, I can't stress enough how beneficial that has been to me. That includes our dorfs here like Ray, Verm, Zig amongst others.

I don't think I do well in the ditto either so don't worry lol.

 

[Vermanubis]

Similar reason to why I can't argue about my placement. I'd really love not having to drive 5 hours to the nearest tourney.

Edit: Also, in your face, Pon!

 

[A2ZOMG]

Dang, all these Ganons appearing on Smashboards and getting ranked higher than me. Need to start stepping up my ditto game, haha.

Well it isn't just about the ditto. It's more about what I see in your overall skillset. If I ranked this about skill in the ditto matchup, I'd probably rank myself noticeably higher.

I'm now a working man, but I have a few weeks to myself, so I'll see if I can do some tournaments to test my performance under pressure again.

 

[Sykkamorre]

I like how many decent players hang out in the ganon Skype chat.

Like, a good chunk of C tier is there.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Good games A2. You've gotten much better than when we last played. Nice patience in your style.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Good games A2. You've gotten much better than when we last played. Nice patience in your style.

I appreciate hearing that from you. As always you're really difficult to predict and you react very well to even small mistakes.

I need to see how I compare to Potechi, @ Opana , @Swoops, @ Koskinator and others again sometime. I am wondering if I should move my own placement soon.

 

[Z1GMA]

I'd like to add an award.
Most Combo Videos: @ Opana

 

[Opana]

I appreciate hearing that from you. As always you're really difficult to predict and you react very well to even small mistakes.

I need to see how I compare to Potechi, @ Opana , @Swoops, @ Koskinator and others again sometime. I am wondering if I should move my own placement soon.

I think both you and @adom4 are due to move up. Exactly where, I'm not sure, but I do think you both are better than your current placings suggest. If it means anything, if I were to fight either of you in the Ganon Tourney I honestly don't know who would win. You especially A2, you seem to know the mirror very well, while adom plays really solidly making him difficult to punish. I feel like I need to be on point with Ganon facing either of you like I would any other A/S tier. I'd like to fight @ Koskinator at some point too.

I haven't been able to play much lately, and when I have I've been putting time into various characters. I'd like to start devoting all my time to Ganondorf again, I need to prep for our dorf tourney or I likely won't make it too far lol. I wish I had the ability to play multiple characters well but doing so doesn't seem possible, I feel I get noticeably worse all around doing so.

Honestly it's been awhile since I've fought any of you really, it's overdue I get games in with you guys.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

I'd suggest you go right below Adom4 for now @ A2ZOMG .

 

[Koskinator]

David33 is my id get at me opana