Hey all, New smash player here looking for tips

[UnchosenName0]

Hey!
So I'm pretty new to smash. Smash 4 Wii U is my first smash game. Tried quite a few characters, albeit back when I wasn't real handy with the controls, and really liked Robin.
Stopped playing for most of a year, and got back into it about a month and a half ago. Been playing alot since then. Watching videos, reading guides, etc.

So recently, I started winning for glory matches as Robin. This was a pretty huge step up. Before I was getting edgeguarded and comboed into oblivion. No I can handle myself with most players.

Today, I started saving replays, and uploaded quite a few to youtube. Decided, hey, how's 'bout I go check out some forums and get some tips? And here I am.

So I'll go ahead and link the videos I uploaded here, and you guys (if you wish) can feel free to rip me apart. Looking for specific advice.

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT_AdeeqWYI
This is the first replay I decided to save, because of that sweet taunt at the end. Convinced me to start saving more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KCPR0s6QoM
I had one other run-in with a kirby that was a little closer than this one, decided not to upload.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nwYwPtI_ak
There were like two thirty-second lag freezes during this one that screwed me up a couple times.

Ok, and the last one. A preface: I had just played this guy, who was using captain falcon. It was a really close match (I won), but it was too long to upload . He KO'd me first and I immediately dropped down and KO'd him with a bair. Got a couple nosferatus as I recall, and a few book throws, and otherwise was just really close.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDH7VTFP9OU
So then this guy goes full tryhard with cloud. Has a close win, spamming whatever that chinese symbol move is. And after that 'performance', he had the gall to call me a spammer. -_-

I think it's noteworthy that I'm not real familiar with most characters, especially the DLC's, as I do not have them.

I also think it's noteworthy that I do know how to catch/throw tomes and swords, but unfortunately I'm usually too focused to keep track of when my items are running out.

Anyway, thanks for reading! Feel free to just rip me apart . If that's not enough videos, I can see about getting more up this weekend.

 

[Nah]

A few basic things I noticed:

1) You roll an awful lot. Rolling has its uses, but over-use of anything is asking to get read and punished.
2) Dair sucks, don't use it except for the sexy Arcthunder->SH Dair kill.
3) You don't grab much. In those 4 videos I only saw you grab 2-3 times total. Not that you wanna spam grab either, as it's laggy and doesn't have huge range, but Robin gets good reward off of it and you want to make use of that, nevermind that beating shield is important in this game.
4) You swing a lot as if you're expecting your opponent to run into your hitboxes. Given Robin's frame data, this can often leave you open for punishment by better characters/players.
5) Thoron is better used as a way to cut through/punish most projectiles, and as a kill move at about 140%ish percent depending on character weight. It's also good at catching rolls. You also don't need to immediately fire it when you charge it, hold onto it sometimes and force them to guess when you'll use it.

One other thing that's kinda unrelated, but in that video with the Mewtwo, that aerial Nosferatu was pretty cool. I like to use Nos as a landing mixup myself, but I've never tried to use it that high up before.

 

[lucasfan3068]

I know how you feel the only time I've every played professionally is ssb4. Anyways here's some tips.

1: learn your recovery. This is very vital because if your knocked off this could (and most likely will save your life.

 

[UnchosenName0]

A few basic things I noticed:

Spoiler

1) You roll an awful lot. Rolling has its uses, but over-use of anything is asking to get read and punished.
2) Dair sucks, don't use it except for the sexy Arcthunder->SH Dair kill.
3) You don't grab much. In those 4 videos I only saw you grab 2-3 times total. Not that you wanna spam grab either, as it's laggy and doesn't have huge range, but Robin gets good reward off of it and you want to make use of that, nevermind that beating shield is important in this game.
4) You swing a lot as if you're expecting your opponent to run into your hitboxes. Given Robin's frame data, this can often leave you open for punishment by better characters/players.
5) Thoron is better used as a way to cut through/punish most projectiles, and as a kill move at about 140%ish percent depending on character weight. It's also good at catching rolls. You also don't need to immediately fire it when you charge it, hold onto it sometimes and force them to guess when you'll use it.

One other thing that's kinda unrelated, but in that video with the Mewtwo, that aerial Nosferatu was pretty cool. I like to use Nos as a landing mixup myself, but I've never tried to use it that high up before.

1) I've been trying to make use of the roll speed to stay in the perfect-for-arcfire zone, but I'll try no to overdo it. Is there a better way to maintain that spacing? Most characters can hit me in the back if I try to move away from their approach.

2) Noted. I'm still not confortable with going offstage for elwind spikes, and I've had better luck with dair in the past. What should I do when I've got someone faster than me below me? Especially, say, link, whose upsmash is very hard to airdodge

3) Yeah, I really need to get a better feel for grabbing. I also need to practice me uair combo from the dthrow, but until those percents, is backthrow the way to go? I've noticed it usually gets me to arcthunder for free.

4) Yeah, the whiffed smashes are definitely a problem, but I think I'm better at reading with the AAA combos. I think it'll take practice though.

5) I usually only play campy like that when people let me. But yeah, I see what you're saying.

 

[UnchosenName0]

I know how you feel the only time I've every played professionally is ssb4. Anyways here's some tips.

1: learn your recovery. This is very vital because if your knocked off this could (and most likely will save your life.

Could you elaborate? I often fall offstage because of mis-inputs, or falling too far before I react, especially when I think I still have a jump.

 

[Nah]

1) I've been trying to make use of the roll speed to stay in the perfect-for-arcfire zone, but I'll try no to overdo it. Is there a better way to maintain that spacing? Most characters can hit me in the back if I try to move away from their approach.

You can also jump/use retreating Fair or use pivot Ftilt to try to give yourself some space. Sometimes you just have to fight for that space though since Robin's poor mobility sort of hinders spacing ability.

2) Noted. I'm still not confortable with going offstage for elwind spikes, and I've had better luck with dair in the past. What should I do when I've got someone faster than me below me? Especially, say, link, whose upsmash is very hard to airdodge

It's something you eventually get comfortable with through playing. I remember long ago I was hella uncomfortable going offstage with Robin at all, but eventually this stopped being a problem just from trying to go offstage enough and getting used to it.

I mean more don't use Dair in neutral or disadvantage though.

Robin is bad at landing, so a lot of the time there's not much you can do. Your options mainly are going to the ledge and trying to fight your way back from there, and using Nosferatu/Elwind/B-reverse Thunder charge as mixups.

3) Yeah, I really need to get a better feel for grabbing. I also need to practice me uair combo from the dthrow, but until those percents, is backthrow the way to go? I've noticed it usually gets me to arcthunder for free.

You can generally get a stuff off of Dthrow at most percents actually, depending on the opposing character and what your opponent knows about Robin Dthrow. Bthrow (and Fthrow) are fine to use too since they can give you stage control.

5) I usually only play campy like that when people let me. But yeah, I see what you're saying.

Campy is fine (people need to stop hating on campy play really), it's more that part of the good thing with storeable, chargable projectiles is that you don't have to use it immediately. Sometimes the threat of the move is more powerful than the move itself.

 

[UnchosenName0]

Robin is bad at landing, so a lot of the time there's not much you can do. Your options mainly are going to the ledge and trying to fight your way back from there, and using Nosferatu/Elwind/B-reverse Thunder charge as mixups.

Okay. Once I'm on the ledge, I alot of times have trouble getting back on the stage against more competent edgeguarding characters.
Jumping into a fair tends to work best as my goto, or attack-climbing (is that what you call it?) if they're charging a smash or other attack. Are there better ways to go about this?

And is there any way to prevent, say Mario or Marth, from spiking me once I've started my elwind?

Also, what is a B-reverse?

And is there a way to stop Robin from turning around when doing Nosferatu, or do I just need to be more careful with my inputs? Or maybe I could keybind it to a different button?

 

[Nah]

Okay. Once I'm on the ledge, I alot of times have trouble getting back on the stage against more competent edgeguarding characters.
Jumping into a fair tends to work best as my goto, or attack-climbing (is that what you call it?) if they're charging a smash or other attack. Are there better ways to go about this?

Basically you want to make use of all your ledge get up options, mix it up so they have a hard time choosing the correct method to ledgeguard you. Tho there's also just some characters that're stupid good at keeping you at the ledge. That's all I can tell you really.

And is there any way to prevent, say Mario or Marth, from spiking me once I've started my elwind?

Once you've started casting Elwind all you can do really is try to move around while doing it to try to avoid their spike attempt.

Also, what is a B-reverse?

It's a tech where you reverse your aerial momentum basically. You can only do it with special moves (hence the B part), most often with neutral B. The input is, while moving in one direction in the air, you tap B and then immediately after flick the stick in the opposite direction you're moving. If you were falling to the right say and you did it correctly you'll end up falling towards the left while charging Thunder.

And is there a way to stop Robin from turning around when doing Nosferatu, or do I just need to be more careful with my inputs? Or maybe I could keybind it to a different button?

Yeah you just gotta e more careful with the inputs. Make sure the stick is pointing straight down and not to the sides at all.

 

[UnchosenName0]

Yeah you just gotta e more careful with the inputs. Make sure the stick is pointing straight down and not to the sides at all.

Speaking of nosferatu, I missed one today against a lucas right next to me. Does it have a dead spot right in front of Robin?

I got the next attempt from behind though, and healed from ~115 all the way to ~65

 

[Nah]

Speaking of nosferatu, I missed one today against a lucas right next to me. Does it have a dead spot right in front of Robin?

It doesn't have a dead spot afaik. If you grabbed him just before that may be why it didn't work, as there's that whole thing about how you can't grab anyone again for a good second after releasing them. His Usmash has some i-frames which may or may not have allowed him to avoid it. Did he happen to roll or spotdodge at that time? Otherwise, idk

 

[UnchosenName0]

It doesn't have a dead spot afaik. If you grabbed him just before that may be why it didn't work, as there's that whole thing about how you can't grab anyone again for a good second after releasing them. His Usmash has some i-frames which may or may not have allowed him to avoid it. Did he happen to roll or spotdodge at that time? Otherwise, idk

Watched the replay. He was falling towards me, and I missed early. He ended up landing next to me during the ending lag.

How long does the grab immunity last?
And I assume fthrow is too far to far to hop straight into a nosferatu?

 

[Dream Cancel]

1) That Shiek was terrible and you should have been punished for so many things, so I wouldn't look too deep into that win. The only exceptions were 1) You have good arcfire setups and a decent understanding of it 2) don't expect people to run into smashes, you also have checkmate for KOs so save the smashes for reads 3) you roll too much, walking is fine even if you're slow.

2) That was a free win with a checkmate, you didn't grab once and you got hit with way too many smashes. The Kirby didn't know his follow-ups and didn't edgeguard you at all. Also, you were rolling when you could have attacked him several times. But your Arcfire understanding was good again, just get the spacing right on the ledge with it and you'll have arcfire down.

3) Best one so far, still no grabs but your Nosferatus and Arcfires were good again. You should recognize that someone spamming a reflector is looking for something juicy to reflect, so just stick to thunder and play more aggressively. You also have decent awareness on when to smash too, that was a nice punish on his roll.

4) Can't let Cloud charge limit like that, run up to him about roll length away to pressure his charging, you're lucky he wastes his limit. Also, Cloud's sword is annoyingly large so you can't challenge him when he tries to attack. Dunno why you're taunting when the match isn't over. At that point, Cloud was off-stage and you should be ledge guarding him.

Your lack of Arcthunder is disturbing; it's one of Robin's best tools and has great follow-ups.

Overall, you're on your way up, so that's good. Just you need to be careful on what you throw out, no one has punished you particularly hard, in my opinion.