Heroes Draw Near. Command? (Hero Social Thread)

[Munchi]

I actually got the one I wanted (War Cry), XD.

I like it a lot too

 

[TheYungLink]

What songs would you have liked to come and did not come to me I would have liked Great Battle in the Vast Sky

Limited only to games represented through the playable heroes [these are direct links to the songs on Woodus, not YouTube links]:

Dragon Quest III
*Town
Castle ~ Rondo
Dungeon
Village
*Tower
Boogie-Woogie (also heard in Dragon Quest VIII)
*Pyramid
*Sailing
Jipang
Heavenly Flight (also heard in Dragon Quest VIII)
*Grueling Fight
*Hero's Challenge

Dragon Quest IV

Minuet
The Warrior Conquers Alone (Chapter 1 Map)
Tomboy Princess' March (Chapter 2 Map)
Weapons Merchant Torneko (Chapter 3 Map)
*Gypsy's Dance
Gypsy's Journey (Chapter 4 Map)
Town
Casino Rag (also heard in Dragon Quest VIII)
*Colosseum Stand
*Homeland (Chapter 5 Map)
Frightening Dungeon
*Cursed Towers
Expanding the Map (Chapter 5 Map with Ship)
Balloon's Flight (Chapter 5 Map with Balloon)
*A Challenging Opponent
*Evil One
*Incarnation of Evil

Dragon Quest VIII (using the Japanese 3DS version for better sound)
Pulling the Coach
Royal Palace Gavotte
A Peaceful Community
Majesty of the Castle
*A Cathedral Town
*Hurry! We're in a Pinch! (maybe as part of a medley as it's a bit short on its own)
*Conversation
Memories of the Sea
Tower of Mystery
*Break Through the Barrier
Dhoulmagus
*Great Battle in the Vast Sky

I haven't played Dragon Quest XI yet.

I didn't worry too much about whether the songs listed were suitable for battle or not, they're just some of my favorite songs from each game (not all of them, I left out a few of the slower songs I liked). I did put a little asterisk * next to songs I think would be fit for fighting to, however.

This took a long time to type up but I would have taken even longer if I let myself pick music from throughout the entire series, lol

 

[Hadokeyblade]

True.

And thankfully it seems Toriyama proved everyone who theorized about him being a huge trouble with the negotiations for Smash absolutely wrong.

He gave us as many spirits as P5 got in number, and a good number of Mii costumes.

The virgin Nomura vs the Chad Toriyama

 

[Deleted member]

Limited only to games represented through the playable heroes [these are direct links to the songs on Woodus, not YouTube links]:

Dragon Quest III
*Town
Castle ~ Rondo
Dungeon
Village
*Tower
Boogie-Woogie (also heard in Dragon Quest VIII)
*Pyramid
*Sailing
Jipang
Heavenly Flight (also heard in Dragon Quest VIII)
*Grueling Fight
*Hero's Challenge

Dragon Quest IV

Minuet
The Warrior Conquers Alone (Chapter 1 Map)
Tomboy Princess' March (Chapter 2 Map)
Weapons Merchant Torneko (Chapter 3 Map)
*Gypsy's Dance
Gypsy's Journey (Chapter 4 Map)
Town
Casino Rag (also heard in Dragon Quest VIII)
*Colosseum Stand
*Homeland (Chapter 5 Map)
Frightening Dungeon
*Cursed Towers
Expanding the Map (Chapter 5 Map with Ship)
Balloon's Flight (Chapter 5 Map with Balloon)
*A Challenging Opponent
*Evil One
*Incarnation of Evil

Dragon Quest VIII (using the Japanese 3DS version for better sound)
Pulling the Coach
Royal Palace Gavotte
A Peaceful Community
Majesty of the Castle
*A Cathedral Town
*Hurry! We're in a Pinch! (maybe as part of a medley as it's a bit short on its own)
*Conversation
Memories of the Sea
Tower of Mystery
*Break Through the Barrier
Dhoulmagus
*Great Battle in the Vast Sky

I haven't played Dragon Quest XI yet.

I didn't worry too much about whether the songs listed were suitable for battle or not, they're just some of my favorite songs from each game (not all of them, I left out a few of the slower songs I liked). I did put a little asterisk * next to songs I think would be fit for fighting to, however.

This took a long time to type up but I would have taken even longer if I let myself pick music from throughout the entire series, lol

Don't worry about the time you take with posts, lol.

This thread isn't going anywhere else soon and we are always awaiting any new posts!

 

[SleuthMechanism]

I hope they tone down the frequency of critical hits and to a much lesser extent whack kills. It happens way too often in my experience. In a three hour session I would get about 2-3 crits per round. It doesnt seem like much, but competitively on a large scale I'm a bit worried.

I play BB and Guilty Gear so I'm used to RNG characters, but the smash community is notoriously conservative. I REALLY don't want a repeat of the Mii situation this game.


It gives a (very) small chance to just *pop* the opponent into oblivion. A complete meme move

Zappa and platinum the trinity's RNG in those games is not nearly as extreme though. Even zappa's best ghost doesn't randomly decide to make a move outright kill the opponent when it normally wouldn't and platinum's items are much more intuitive to rotate through than the spell menu.

these character's rng mehcanics are more akin to stuff like peach's turnips than hero's crits and such IMO.

 

[Deleted member]

This might be a dumb if not offensive question but is the Hero the closest thing you can get for a playable Isaac in Smash?

 

[Troykv]

I'm waiting to the time my friend tells me that Hero it's as broken as DQ's battle system itself...

I just wanted a laugh.

Oh damn; I have a feeling that Hero's critics maybe actually have arguments to ban them from tournaments... but I need to see more.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Oh damn; I have a feeling that Hero's critics maybe actually have arguments to ban them from tournaments... but I need to see more.

I haven't really looked into the arguments for a ban but after playing online i think Whack and Thwack are the moves that could be problematic. The idea itself isn't bad imo, i think the problem is more that the mechanic is an incredibly low risk for a huge reward. The moves come out really fast (for a one-hit kill move) and don't have much endlag.

Idk, in comparison, some moves in the game are able to kill super early but have a major downside (e.g. Ganondorf's Volcano kick, Jigglypuff's Rest etc.).

I hope they tone down the frequency of critical hits and to a much lesser extent whack kills. It happens way too often in my experience. In a three hour session I would get about 2-3 crits per round. It doesnt seem like much, but competitively on a large scale I'm a bit worried.

Just my opinion based on what i've seen so far but Hero's Smash attacks seem relatively slow/easy to shield/dodge/punish. In an offline context involving pro players, i doubt we'll see a lot Smash attacks land, consequently, not a lot of crits.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

This might be a dumb if not offensive question but is the Hero the closest thing you can get for a playable Isaac in Smash?

no

 

[GolisoPower]

Not that I'm complaining about Hero's representation right now, but why didn't they get Rasmus Hardiker back to voice the Luminary?

I mean, as far as English-voiced SE characters go, I get why Steve Burton couldn't come to voice Cloud (Hopefully Cody Christian does that if Cloud comes back in the next Smash game), but I don't think Rasmus has the same restrictions, at least not to my knowledge. Besides, Rasmus has worked with Nintendo before voicing Tora in Xenoblade 2, so it should be easy to call him up and tell him, "Hey, Mr. Hardiker, how would you like to voice the Luminary in Smash Bros," right?

 

[Deleted member]

no

What's the difference between the two because I only know Isaac's moves in Smash Flash 2

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

True.

And thankfully it seems Toriyama proved everyone who theorized about him being a huge trouble with the negotiations for Smash absolutely wrong.

He gave us as many spirits as P5 got in number, and a good number of Mii costumes.

I wasn't going to doubt an avid Ultraman fanboy. The actual tough part was contacting five license owners for DQ, and it was a success.

 

[Deleted member]

Anyone’s else see this? Wow!

This is the fastest stock I will ever take in any Smash game. And thanks to rng, I will never get this again.

Ban Hero wtf LMFAO pic.twitter.com/F81s0qv4C4

— Injo (@kv_injo) July 31, 2019

 

[Teeb147]

Anyone’s else see this? Wow!

This is the fastest stock I will ever take in any Smash game. And thanks to rng, I will never get this again.

Ban Hero wtf LMFAO pic.twitter.com/F81s0qv4C4

— Injo (@kv_injo) July 31, 2019

That didnt even sound like a crit. Reflected charged neutral b plus smash attack does a lot of dmg.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

This might be a dumb if not offensive question but is the Hero the closest thing you can get for a playable Isaac in Smash?

The only way I can think of to respond to this is with a dead meme so here ya go.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

Man I’m sorry to all Hero fans here, which is partially me as I love playing him casually, but there’s really no arguing that, from a competitive stand point, this character is designed HORRBILY, possible the worst designed in the entire game from that perspective

 

[TheYungLink]

*shrugs*

Aside from the 1/8 chance for a critical hit, which I agree could be toned down (maybe 1/16 or lower) and maybe sticking the menu above their percent meter instead of above their head, the spell menu is still a risky move to use in the middle of combat, and since it's safe to use upon the beginning of a stock and when the opponent is offstage, it's reasonably easy to predict when someone using The Hero will bring up Command Selection and plan accordingly.

I don't agree with the mindset that The Hero should be banned, there's plenty in their design that prevents them from being overpowered in higher competitive play.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

*shrugs*

Aside from the 1/8 chance for a critical hit, which I agree could be toned down (maybe 1/16 or lower) and maybe sticking the menu above their percent meter instead of above their head, the spell menu is still a risky move to use in the middle of combat, and since it's safe to use upon the beginning of a stock and when the opponent is offstage, it's reasonably easy to predict when someone using The Hero will bring up Command Selection and plan accordingly.

I don't agree with the mindset that The Hero should be banned, there's plenty in their design that prevents them from being overpowered in higher competitive play.

Have you seen Armada’s video about him? I was mostly in line with what you were saying until seeing his video on him, but seeing just how unbelievably easy it is to kill at the edge made me have visions of how he will be in competitive

 

[Lamperouge]

I'm digging Hero so far but the spell menu is pretty clunky and difficult to manage against competent players. His aerials are a bit too slow and awkward for my liking, too. Still not sure if he's going to be a character that I'm serious about getting good with, but I'll definitely continue playing him for fun.

Oh, and it's cool as hell to have Toriyama designs in Smash now lol...

 

[TheYungLink]

Have you seen Armada’s video about him? I was mostly in line with what you were saying until seeing his video on him, but seeing just how unbelievably easy it is to kill at the edge made me have visions of how he will be in competitive

No, and I'm not going to. I'm going to do the realistic thing and just wait and see.

I didn't look at any tier lists for Smash Ultimate until at least half a year passed, I'm certainly not gonna make a judgement on how broken The Hero is when it hasn't even been a week, let alone a few months, since they came out.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

No, and I'm not going to. I'm going to do the realistic thing and just wait and see.

I didn't look at any tier lists for Smash Ultimate until at least half a year passed, I'm certainly not gonna make a judgement on how broken The Hero is when it hasn't even been a week, let alone a few months, since they came out.

I’m not looking at any tier lists, but it’s just telling to the competitive future of the character when a prominent player has already found a way to consistently edgeguard opponents that has seemingly no counterplay, you’re right it could change but a fighting game should have as little randomness as possible, and Hero is the exact opposite of that is all I’m saying

 

[NomadLuminary]

Eh, wherever he is placed, I'll still main him no matter what. And I'm not gonna let someone change my mind on that either.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Not gonna lie, I think the Hero is perfectly playable without the command menu. I never once touched it.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

Not gonna lie, I think the Hero is perfectly playable without the command menu. I never once touched it.

That’s actually something I’ve noticed too funnily enough, I played him a ton today and only pushed the down Special a few times and just to mess around, I think he’s honestly more viable without it in some cases

 

[SmashKeks]

That’s actually something I’ve noticed too funnily enough, I played him a ton today and only pushed the down Special a few times and just to mess around, I think he’s honestly more viable without it in some cases

I think it's optimal use is as a chaos wildcard. Obviously no competitive player or even someone just trying to brush up or improve their skills will use it heat of the moment, which unfortunately makes some options like the slashes nigh worthless. However if the opponent is off stage or in stun it's fun to use like Cloud's charge and throw it out, look at your options, and see if you get something favorable or cheesy like the whack attempt or Magic Burst. Use Hocus Pocus is you really feel like a clown. Hero's probably one of my favorite characters now, thoughthat doesn't mean he's a main or anything, solely because he's a chaos pick for casual clowning.

 

[Teeb147]

It's too bad the hero will be a charged topic for some people..

It's unfortunate that Leffen and Armada have so much influence as pro smash players, because even though what they bring up are legit concerns, it doesn't deserve the extreme opinion that they're passing off. I think the character will have to be adjusted, but it's still not that bad because the character itself isn't 'badly' designed, it's a fun design that uses quite a few things that goes on rng, and that can make it interesting and feel like gambling. Now as far as 1v1 competitive playing, there can definitely be jank that wont be liked, though thwack and magic burst dont always show up when edgeguarding, but let's say on average you'd get a good edgeguard per game with it, that's not as bad as pikachu who can edgeguard very well all the time, not to mention has a really good neutral.

With how hero plays, a good player shouldn't be thrown off stage that often in the first place. Whack is slow so you can see it coming, and smash crits are still smashes and you shouldn't be getting hit by them, and besides snooze there isn't really much that would let someone get a free smash. If you see the menu pop up and snooze is there, shield or run away, because that's hero's best way to ko someone consistently.

I think thwack is a bit too good, and if it were me I would make it that it has no chance to kill unless someone is above 80% or something, it's still a useful attack and could finish off someone at high percent. Tho still i havent seen it come so much often that it's a huge problem, but I can definitely understand people who aren't happy with it.

I think this is a case where sakurai just wanted to make a fun character and decided **** it let's just do it and we'll see how it goes. I think it's good for people to speak out and say what they think, but it's definitely someone biased that says that the character should be banned when it's only been out for 2-3 days and we dont even know if the character will be able to beat top-tiers and make it far in tournaments once people understand the character.

Anyway, I think it'd be good for people to lighten a bit about it and still talk about it but without having to judge (including so quickly) and all that.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

I think it's optimal use is as a chaos wildcard. Obviously no competitive player or even someone just trying to brush up or improve their skills will use it heat of the moment, which unfortunately makes some options like the slashes nigh worthless. However if the opponent is off stage or in stun it's fun to use like Cloud's charge and throw it out, look at your options, and see if you get something favorable or cheesy like the whack attempt or Magic Burst. Use Hocus Pocus is you really feel like a clown. Hero's probably one of my favorite characters now, thoughthat doesn't mean he's a main or anything, solely because he's a chaos pick for casual clowning.

I completely agree with you, Hero is a perfect character to just have a good, fun time with which, while I don’t think he applies to competitive play well, means he’s one of the most fun characters to play as, which I can really appreciate despite me seeming like a huge hater of him. I really do like hero, namely Erdrick especially, I just have concerns about his heavy rng is all

 

[GolisoPower]

Honestly, I'd say Command Selection can be good if you're a safe-enough distance from the opponent, despite the RNG.

Picture it this way: you're playing Hero. You're fighting against a Bayonetta. You knock her away from the left edge of Final Destination to the point where she's a hair's length from the right blast line. As she's trying to recover, you open up the menu and look through any options you have. If you have any projectiles like Sizzle, Kaboom or yes, even Whack, you can attempt to snipe her with it as shes heading towards the edge. If you have a physical attack and she manages to get in front and attempts to attack you, you can counter attack with Flame Slash or Kacrackle Slash, or if you really want to risk it, Hatchet Man. Or if you want to stockpile on any buffs for when she gets back, use Oomph and/or Psyche Up to power up, or maybe even use Acceleratle to take a risk, run up to her and knock her into the blast line.

What I'm trying to say is, there's this "menu-safe spot" that you can find yourself in sometimes when you're in battle, giving you the opportunity to see how well you can improvise with the spells that are up for you while your opponent tries to close in or attack from far away.

 

[lukinator1]

i think people will get used to the menu over time, after playing enough people will be able to react immediately to the spells that and go right away to the one they want and choose it, there is already a noticeable improvement in reaction times after 2/3 days, and once it's almost immediate people will realize how overpowered he is, there are already other rhythm/fps games which require more reaction times

 

[Teeb147]

Well, even if someone gets super fast with the menu, the delay between when you open it and when you can close it is slow enough that it's a risk to open it if you're too close to someone. Once the delay is over it's fast to close it, but they really added something that makes it you can't close it right after you open it.

 

[NomadLuminary]

i think people will get used to the menu over time, after playing enough people will be able to react immediately to the spells that and go right away to the one they want and choose it, there is already a noticeable improvement in reaction times after 2/3 days, and once it's almost immediate people will realize how overpowered he is, there are already other rhythm/fps games which require more reaction times

Exactly. Again it's been 3 days. It just needs time.

Edit: On a side note, I've been learning Hero quite a lot over these past few days. So the menu becomes way more manageable over time. Thankfully because I don't pop it open every 5 seconds.

 

[Jade_Rock]

So some thoughts after playing for a couple days, he is t op that's for sure. He has laggy air attacks (which are very important for swordies and ultimate in general). And just bad frame data in general.

His disadvantage is actually terrible. He can't get out of combos. He doesn't have a fast aerial like Link Nair with a large enough hitbox to get out of combos. The faster characters, which going by past smash games are usually top tier(pika, fox,shiek,marth,meta knight etc.) will just combo him to deah. Rush him down so he can't even use the menu.
Now the menu, in advantage and as an edgeguard it's pretty broken. Oh I got magic burst? K guess your dead I'm very good at this!!!This character was designed around causal play and that's that. The random stuff probably wouldn't feel so annoying if we were playing with items for decades as we'd be used to this. And it would have been occuring more regularly.

Maybe like mid-high tier just due to all his options.

Is he broken? I think so. Like the idea, but snooze and crit Fsmash is dumb. Magic burst is a large aoe(kills around 50 with Max mp)The whack spells are plain random bs that we don't really need.

Again, he's fun. I love the character and the references to DQ are so great! Which I know isn't appreciated in the west, so all people see are broken rng nonsense. I get that.

What they need to do is just outright remove the insta kills, tone down magic burst and kazaple. Then give him a bit better normals(make Nair/fair faster, up air/up smash bit larger hitbox). This takes away some uniqueness, but I think it'd be for the best.

 

[osby]

What they need to do is just outright remove the insta kills, tone down magic burst and kazaple. Then give him a bit better normals(make Nair/fair faster, up air/up smash bit larger hitbox). This takes away some uniqueness, but I think it'd be for the best.

I disagree. He's not that broken. I'm not a fan of removing characters' interesting parts just because some vocal minority whines as a knee-jerk reaction.

 

[Munchi]

So some thoughts after playing for a couple days, he is t op that's for sure. He has laggy air attacks (which are very important for swordies and ultimate in general). And just bad frame data in general.

His disadvantage is actually terrible. He can't get out of combos. He doesn't have a fast aerial like Link Nair with a large enough hitbox to get out of combos. The faster characters, which going by past smash games are usually top tier(pika, fox,shiek,marth,meta knight etc.) will just combo him to deah. Rush him down so he can't even use the menu.
Now the menu, in advantage and as an edgeguard it's pretty broken. Oh I got magic burst? K guess your dead I'm very good at this!!!This character was designed around causal play and that's that. The random stuff probably wouldn't feel so annoying if we were playing with items for decades as we'd be used to this. And it would have been occuring more regularly.

Maybe like mid-high tier just due to all his options.

Is he broken? I think so. Like the idea, but snooze and crit Fsmash is dumb. Magic burst is a large aoe(kills around 50 with Max mp)The whack spells are plain random bs that we don't really need.

Again, he's fun. I love the character and the references to DQ are so great! Which I know isn't appreciated in the west, so all people see are broken rng nonsense. I get that.

What they need to do is just outright remove the insta kills, tone down magic burst and kazaple. Then give him a bit better normals(make Nair/fair faster, up air/up smash bit larger hitbox). This takes away some uniqueness, but I think it'd be for the best.

Magic explosion has apart from the slowness of the menu to open it and choose it takes a while to reach the great range in which such the enemy can reach the ledge and take advantage I do not receive any damage or just a little and if you think about waiting on the ledge due to make the wheel they can avoid the movement due to what it takes to reach the maximum range and does not break the shield of one so that you can protect it and also after doing so the hero runs out of mp without specials and vulnerable if they take it off the stage

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, Hero is not that broken since with enough practice you can really stand against players who use him.

 

[Teeb147]

Definitely not op. Just in those lucky situations.
I find it pretty rare to have a lot of mp so that magic burst happens and it's a good case for it (that i have the mp to get the ko.)

I guess someone could be very conservative and just hope to get it, but then you miss out on all the other good stuff and rely on their normal attacks, which aren't all that great.

I do like better landing lag though, so i wouldn't mind if they made that better at the cost of a few things people dont like competitively.

 

[Deleted member]

There isn’t any perfectly balanced character in Smash, that’s for sure.

I expect both nerfs and/or buffs for Hero, but because I find that normal with fighters in general.

 

[Lamperouge]

It's a pretty funny sight when you cast Kaclang in the air.

The guy just plummets to his demise lol.

 

[Teeb147]

I would've liked if metal slash actually could've been a decent skill besides just against metal, like maybe at least have a big hitbox like the other slashes, or something special.

 

[Deleted member]

I would've liked if metal slash actually could've been a decent skill besides just against metal, like maybe at least have a big hitbox like the other slashes, or something special.

I agree.

That command is too weak at the moment in my eyes.