Meta Hero and Banjo-Kazooie Speculah

[meleebrawler]

Banjo's Talon Trot is kinda weird. Based on the trailer footage, that isn't a dash, he breaks into it from his dash in the opening, so it's presumably his SideB. Is that going to have any utility outside of "faster run"?

Egg is most likely going to work pretty much like Joker's gun; fire once and then you're either going to be able to hold back to lay a grenade, or hold forward to go into Breegull Blaster. Up-B is the bounce pad, while Down B is the Wonderwing.

Banjo seems well rounded, though his side Smash gives me some major Inkling FSmash vibes in terms of it animating the full way through. I'm guessing that his down air is going to work like Toon Link's/Game & Watch's.

How do you know the step Banjo takes is not just his initial dash animation with Talon Trot being the full dash? Banjo's run might just be his full speed walk. And can't you strafe backwards with Breegull Blaster in the games? That seems more logical for a backwards input.

 

[Envoy of Chaos]

I'm fairly sure that Talon Trot is his run and Banjo animation is the initial dash. In the games Talon Trot served no purpose but to move faster.

Wonder wing seems more suited to be his side b. And yes when using Kazooie like a gun Banjo could strafe in all directions in the games. So just back and forward in smashes case.

 

[NotLiquid]

How do you know the step Banjo takes is not just his initial dash animation with Talon Trot being the full dash? Banjo's run might just be his full speed walk. And can't you strafe backwards with Breegull Blaster in the games? That seems more logical for a backwards input.

Bear in mind that this supposes every egg command is based off of the same special. The egg drop is always directed in the opposite direction that Banjo is facing, so in this situation it would make most sense to initiate it from a backwards command. You can strafe backwards with Breegull Blaster in the games but since those are FPS sections having four directional movement is kind of its thing, most likely you'd be able to move backward even after the initial input.

I had considered that the Talon Trot may be his full run animation but I was thrown off by the fact that it wasn't really a part of his startup animation. Later in the trailer, in the Ivysaur shot, Banjo is shown taking two steps in his dash compared to how the opening only had one before Kazooie popped out. I kinda dismissed it since if his run was his full speed walk that would make him a deceptively agile fighter on the ground. That said I did remember that he's not slated for release until Fall 2019 so these things might be unfinished.

Assuming the Talon Trot is his dash though, I'd assume his special moves would be Egg as neutral B (with forward/backward input for Breegull Blaster), Wonderwing as side B, Shock Jump Pad as up B and Grenade as Down B. I feel like Wonderwing could go either way since despite traveling forward it's traditionally initiated from a crouching/down position, and we do have some forward moving specials from down B.

 

[blackghost]

the hero likely has the specials determined by which costume you are using. we never see in the trailer any hero use a move that another used.
plus knowing sakurai i'm wiling to bet that he would tie each costume to their game of origin. (despite what he did to ness and lucas).
so while the hero does have those additional mp moves each costume will only have access to 4 unique ones.

 

[The_Bookworm]

the hero likely has the specials determined by which costume you are using. we never see in the trailer any hero use a move that another used.
plus knowing sakurai i'm wiling to bet that he would tie each costume to their game of origin. (despite what he did to ness and lucas).
so while the hero does have those additional mp moves each costume will only have access to 4 unique ones.

As interesting as that may seem, it goes against the point of costumes. They are supposed to be merely visual differences and gameplay differences are kept the same. It is the main reason why Lucina and Dark Pit in SSB4 ended being separate characters instead of palette swaps of Marth and Pit, respectively.

We still have very little information on how Hero's magic mechanic works. The E3 direct didn't go in detail about either character's moveset like what they did with Joker and all other newcomers. They most likely will have a Smash Bros direct eventually that will discuss the movesets and the precise release data.

 

[Arthur97]

Also, it kind of bugs me that the Heroes ripped off the Links' shield. That was their thing.

But, no, I wouldn't expect the different heroes to change anything since they aren't echoes.

And huzzah for Banjo actually looking like a straight forward fighter. About time (also, he's not from an RPG so that's nice).

 

[Gearkeeper-8a]

Also, it kind of bugs me that the Heroes ripped off the Links' shield. That was their thing.

But, no, I wouldn't expect the different heroes to change anything since they aren't echoes.

And huzzah for Banjo actually looking like a straight forward fighter. About time (also, he's not from an RPG so that's nice).

But its make sense since the hero use shields too in their games isn't like that added a random shield to the hero to copy link mechanic.

 

[Arthur97]

But its make sense since the hero use shields too in their games isn't like that added a random shield to the hero to copy link mechanic.

But it made the Links a bit more special. It's bad enough they had that guy save Link.

Either way, Banjo is at least a breath of fresh air in the DLC. No discernible gimmick, not an RPG character, not human or "anime," probably has the most personality so far (seriously, Joker and the Heroes are pretty blank slates) and a very requested addition which probably would have been in ages ago had it not been for Microsoft.

And, yes, actually appeals to Nintendo fans.

 

[Patriot Duck]

If I'm understanding Hero correctly, his bounce spell is going to give zoners a lot of trouble. Olimar and Megaman in particular are gonna lose a ton of options while it's active. Depending on how/if Hero restores MP, he could be one of the best zone breakers in the game.

 

[blackghost]

any predictions for the last 2 characters? i still expect sepiroth to show up with FF7 coming out in spring 2020.
other than that idk. nothing else jumps out. at this point any guess that isnt third party seems way off base.

 

[meleebrawler]

Actually, about that Talon Trot enigma... a closer look at the final clip gives a clearer look at Banjo dashing away by himself. What if Talon Trot is actually a unique dash attack that can be continued indefinitely? Everyone dodged out of the way when it was used so we can't confirm if it does damage or not.

 

[Krimnorr]

Actually, about that Talon Trot enigma... a closer look at the final clip gives a clearer look at Banjo dashing away by himself. What if Talon Trot is actually a unique dash attack that can be continued indefinitely? Everyone dodged out of the way when it was used so we can't confirm if it does damage or not.

I went back and checked frame-by-frame and Kazooie actually does appear. It's just hard to catch.

 

[Thinkaman]

Last week:

"I've never played a Dragon Quest game and could really care less. Banjo Kazooie was my childhood."

This week:

"Ok eggs feathers whatever--now go back to the character with 16 specials."

 

[Nobie]

I'm really curious as what the heck Banjo and Kazooie's collective hurtbox is gonna be like.

Like, if they're doing a talon trot, what part of them is hittable?

 

[TTTTTsd]

I'm really curious as what the heck Banjo and Kazooie's collective hurtbox is gonna be like.

Like, if they're doing a talon trot, what part of them is hittable?

Could see them making KAzooie's legs have a hurtbox but not her body and head so that way when she attacks it's disjointed but during the run the legs can be hit effectively meaning no hurtbox shrinkage

 

[Sean²]

I'm gonna call it now, Hero will be really scary with momentum. From how it looks, you can cover just about every ledge option with Kamikaze. Don't be on the ledge when you're down a stock against him, I guess. And Snooze? Forget about it. Sing with less risk. Just what we need. I'm super intrigued by this character. Hoping he doesn't turn out to be broken, seeing how the MP system fully works would be helpful in discerning how good the specials can be, like how fast it recharges, etc.

Banjo looks super fun to me. I'm feeling like he'll be a pretty honest character. I like that the egg grenade is a item-projectile, and they have an up B similar to Mega Man and Sonic. I could probably see myself picking this character up, unless they have mechanics that are hard to work around.

 

[Deleted member]

Something I haven't seen mentioned too much, I think the Heroes have a LOT of potential in doubles. I think having a partner with an aggressive neutral paired with Hero could be used to buy him time and give him setups in order for him to charge up and select spells. Though I'm also not nearly as familiar with doubles as I am with singles, so maybe it's not as good as it sounds on paper.

As for Banjo-Kazooie, while he does seem more straightforward I am curious to see what the feather gauge is for. What we did see in the trailer makes him seem to me like a solid, well rounded character but I also think there might be more we still haven't seen.

 

[meleebrawler]

Something I haven't seen mentioned too much, I think the Heroes have a LOT of potential in doubles. I think having a partner with an aggressive neutral paired with Hero could be used to buy him time and give him setups in order for him to charge up and select spells. Though I'm also not nearly as familiar with doubles as I am with singles, so maybe it's not as good as it sounds on paper.

As for Banjo-Kazooie, while he does seem more straightforward I am curious to see what the feather gauge is for. What we did see in the trailer makes him seem to me like a solid, well rounded character but I also think there might be more we still haven't seen.

Hero could just team up with another Hero and they could then set their spells to fit certain ''classes'', or roles. Like one moving in with the damage buffs and reflector while the other slings spells from a distance.

Banjo does look fairly well-rounded, though he seems to lean somewhat towards power and range over speed.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Something Nairo pointed out that I am not sure if we already covered it, is that the Hero enters a Chudat- err I mean, thinking pose when selecting his spells. In one of the clips (and another one, but the one he shows is the most obvious), Hero enters the thinking pose right before using the move.

You can see in both these screenshots that the hero will put his hand on his chin before selecting a special move

SO I THINK I'M RIGHT BUT WE'LL SEE IN TIME pic.twitter.com/zR5rXILio8

— Nairo (@NairoMK) June 11, 2019

This kind of proves "having 4 special moves with one specific special" theory, as Hero can somehow switch spells on the fly. 16 specials moves on one character on the fly makes this character exciting (plus sounding somewhat broken if this mechanic is not done right lol).

Between Hero and Banjo, Hero looks like the more likely candidate for being that "one" DLC character that is overtuned at the beginning. Then again, I can be completely wrong and he can be a solid character without being overtuned. Most of this is just speculation anyways.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I've been thinking about how Hero's specials are supposed to work. The way that makes most sense to me is that he can hold the B button to cycle through them. If they go this route with it, I think they'd also make it possible to "save" which option you had selected by shield canceling it.

That's the most intuitive way of doing it I can think of.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Yeah, I think holding B to bring up the menu (similar to how Shulk can hold B to bring up his Art dial) makes the most sense there. A simple tap could conceivably use either the most recent spell cast from that slot (neutral/side/up/down), or default to the top spell in the list.