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Help with sonic

Bluehedgehog

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
34
ok, I have gotten a lot better with sonic because of this board; however my friends have 'learned' my sonic and I have become to predictable. I know most if not all sonics AT, is there anyway you guys can help me by showing me different ways of killing besides the normal ways (bair fsmash dsmash). I have become too predictable in my killing. Maybe some fundamental mind-games, I did read boxobs mind-game thread. (my friend doesn't fall for side b cancel dodges/grabs, he doesn't listen to the sound when he plays) could help me. I need your guys help because I want to be a better sonic player!
 

Boxob.

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 6, 2008
Messages
1,463
Location
Long Island, NY.
Protip: Never take anything I say seriously, unless I make a point to tell you all that I'm serious.

Also, fair offstage is a beast. Get them off the stage, fair, win.

:093:
 

Kinzer

Mammy
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
10,397
Location
Las Vegas, NV
NNID
Kinzer
3DS FC
2251-6533-0581
Start plaing to damage then, not to kill.

If you always start gonig for the kills at 110%, of course you'll start getting predictable.

Hope that helps.
 

awful

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Messages
48
Location
NY
learn side b,down b mindgames and incorporate them in with the homing attack and nair.

remember sonic is all about punishing your opponent for mistakes.so be patiaent and wait to see something you can capitalize on.

also learn about their characters.

it helps knowing the ways theyre going to try to approach and attack you.
 

Bluehedgehog

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
34
Yea, thanks guys I have used spin dash mindgames before.
Take a look at this if you want another gimping/killing option:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTvMeBmw15k

This other tut is in case you missed something:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QMRTsGfy0c

Finally, add to your game Spin Dash Pivots and you'll see an improvement, thats for sure :). Hope it helps!
I have seen all your tutorials anthinus they are very good( I supscribed to you a while ago lol); I have seen that lightspeed tut. I think i missed spin dash pivots, what is that?

[edit] Nevermind, google is my friend and so is Infzy's video
 

Tenki

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
6,966
Location
GA
Well, it looks like you're using down-B too much.

Grab more, and stop recovering so close to the stage with spring! You're really predictable and I would probably have spiked you and/or grab gimped you.

Also, stop rolling to the edge so much.

And quit using HA unless you're legitimately punishing me when I can't do anything.

Tilt more, stop staling your smashes. Learn how to space B-air and U-air, because you're using them like a newb.

You might want to stop jumping and using aerials immediately EVERY TIME you pass me with a spindash.

And stop doing Spring > D-air. If I shield the spring (when you're dropping it), all I have to do is run forward and charge a U-smash or F-smash or grab and I've got you.

And for the love of all things fast, stop thinking you're going to be punishing my missed tilts/jabs from across the stage.
1) You can't do that
2) It's predictable and I'll probably spotdodge you.
3) You're better off standing outside my attack range.

Oh, and please learn how to shield grab and followup your throws. You miss so many chances that could have given you control of the match.


================

Note:
I just wanted to copy and paste that, because the other thread I posted it in was locked, lol.

On to your problem:

It sounds like you're having issues landing kill moves.

F-smash, D-smash, B-air.

For midweights, keep in mind these %'s for "surefire kills" - 135% for F-smash, 145% for D-smash, 170% for B-air (unless you're off-stage).


Well, first off, those are usually your best choice of attacks if you want to kill at a decent %.

You have to look for openings.

There aren't really such things as "spindash mindgames" - I mean, you can use spindashes to aid and get the effects you want, but when it really comes down to it, you're just using them to force a movement you can punish and land a kill move from.

You'll usually land kill moves when:
1) people are landing (even with autocancelled aerials, and airdodges, they have like 1-2 frames of landing lag)
2) they miss (or you shield) a kill move/grab.
3) they roll/spotdodge

It's nice to take advantage of 1) sometimes - some people hold down to fastfall or spam down+shield to spotdodge, and you can land a hit and catch them with bad DI.

for 2), that's a matter of knowing when/how they'll attack.

3) is my favorite, and it takes advantage of peoples' bad habits and lets you kill earlier. If you notice that when your opponent is at a high %, they start dodging alot more - it buys you so many openings, as long as you read their dodge correctly.

If you run at them, will they spotdodge?
Then run > screech stop / side-B shield cancel (to force a reaction) and charge a F-smash, timed to hit them when they spotdodge.

If you run at them, will they roll backwards? Then run > side-B shield cancel outside their roll range and charge a F-smash.

The side-B cancel is really optional, but the sound/graphics/ 'jitter' can cause your opponent to react.

As your opponents get better, they start doing things like jumping when you approach, or grabbing, etc.

You'll have to adapt accordingly.
 

Tenki

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
6,966
Location
GA
Well, here's the thing, when it really comes down to it, unless you're talking about:

1) physical attack vs grab
2) laggy choice vs non-laggy choice

the actual attack you use doesn't make a difference as when you attack. I fall for Sonic traps too, but it's not like I get confused by what it looks like, or even the sound, since I usually play with sound off, or with headphones. It's successful when I react to a move that I thought was going to come, but didn't.

Side-B, screech stop, empty hops, walking, delayed attacks - those are all used to mix up when you attack.

http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?pid=481123#p481123
 

Trillion

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 6, 2007
Messages
609
Location
St. Louis, Missouri
Gimping is actually my specialty vs. most characters. I personally have worked up a couple combos that work fairly well. I like to get my opponent with their back to the edge and then start sonics jab combo. If it knocks the opponent off the side then fair, then dair, for a stage spike. Simple. Or instead of using the jab, use the dtilt.

Some other more basic ones are to Down throw to bair stage spike works too. I also like to fair them away as far as I can with my first jump off the stage and then get as close to them off stage as possible with the mid air jump and then spring to force them to let their recovery get interrupted. I quickly get back to the stage and then try for another aerial. Since, you like dair, it could be used pretty well after doing so because most likely your opponent will be trying to recover more vertically then horizontally. I just plain like spring gimps though. If you can learn to footstool, then you can footstool to a delayed spring that can be nice. Consult LuCKy's combo vid for that.

Up throw to up air chase is good, but opponents learn to mid air dodge it very quickly.

SHAD (short hop air dodge) to a smash is a good way to get out a smash. I do this by doding through my opponent to land behind them and then stutter stepping an Fsmash. It works fairly well for me. To do this, wait until they are about to attack, then short hop and air dodge immediately, basically the same timing for a wavedash in melee and pass through their attack, land behind them and then fsmash or stutter step fsmash. You should space it so that if they do an attack with low lag that you can then run away to avoid being grabbed. Don't spam this or try it everytime or your opponent will expect it and only do it when you will get the kill for sure.
 

thecatinthehat

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Messages
3,245
Location
Banned
Usually, I'd say spinshot moar.

But if you're at stage where your game is predictable, spinshot less.

In fact, don't focus on AT's. That may be the problem.

Observe your opponent and react accordingly.

Don't worry about incorporating AT's and stop focusing on yourself.

In time, you will learn when or when not to apply X AT.

KID, can you link that thread you posted a while back? The one about observing your opponent.

LOL @ Tenki. He really does C&P responses.

:093:
 

Bluehedgehog

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
34
Yea, Cith what i was thinking of doing is just using sonic with little to no spin dashes so i can learn him from a different angle if you know what i mean.

Thanks Tenki I didn't know about some of those things or mind game techniques. Lol i thought you got angry at me at first, it was sort of funny because i never played you... But i dont do some of those things mentioned. That C&P post is a good reminder to all new sonics!
 
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