Help me prove the people who say Bayonetta carries players wrong.

[Shadow Light Master]

Hey guys, I'm a Melee player who plays Smash 4 for fun. But with all the Bayonetta salt, I want to see if the rumors of her carrying players is true. Being a Sonic main, I'm used to people making stupid excuses for being bad at the game. So here's my request:

Tell me the basics I need to know to play Bayonetta, including any Smash 4 tech. I don't know what Bidou is and if I should use it, so fill me in on that too if you'd be so kind. After playing ten locals, I want to see what my results are. If I don't do well, I'm going to tell people to STFU.

I realize I'm asking a lot, so feel free to be as general or basic as you want. Even just links to resources are fine.

 

[pikazz]

one thing first: she is an combo fighter and that was her purpose on creation

however, being an combo fighter comes with an downside that affects her play. Almost all her moves have slow startup except for UpB. it sure isnt that hard in low play but when it comes that both an Mario and Bayonetta trades and tries to get in an Fast jab from both side, Marios would most likely be the one that wins due his Jab is faster than Bayonetta and those frames are crucial on high play.

due this having slow start up, she cant throw out an move willy and nilly and hope for the best. it makes her Approaches poor and approachess something everyone need to be great when they need to approach. Her neutral is good due Bullet Art, After Burner Kicks and Bullet Climax to pressure foe and force them to make action but that will get stale quickly if the foe adapts.

she has hard time to really get in there, but once she is in there she IS in there and combos them to wreck up damage! similiar to how Machamp works in Pokken approach wise.
since her combos have slow start up BUT have fast endlag, meaning they cancel each other out and can wonderful and creative combos and she needs to be creative with her comboes to mix up the DIs and everything.

my opinion on if she carries the player? it really depence on what scenario and most important, how good you AND the opponent are with both approaching AND the neutral.

at low to mid play. I can openly say that she some easy time with the combos as most likely the opponent doesnt have the MU knowledge together that approaches and neutral will be on easy mode.

however, at High and Top-player play. the player NEED to carry Bayonetta through her Neutral and Approaches to get things done and most likely, you need to carry her through her combos too if they do know all about her, as you need to be creative of what comboes you do depending on what the opponent predicts and reacts

 

[Buddhahobo]

I'd argue you also have to record (as in write down the amount of time, not video record) and put a hard limit on your playing time.

If you're practicing too much, then it also can't be argued to be due to the character selection, but because you're just naturally improving due to the work put in.

 

[Zalezus]

If you play melee then the combo DI/follow up flow chart isn't going to be new.

As was said above she has a neutral that requires some baiting and crisp movement, but ultimately is a challenge in and of itself. Once you get in (safely or not) the hit confirm is all you need to link to the next thing. Not all combos need to be to death, and not all combos need to use 2 ABKs/WTs. She punishes really hard, but if you aren't safe...her weight won't save you from an early KO.

Don't use Bidou for this, just play Smash

Special treat: to edgeguard, jump off the ledge and hold A for nair or uair and intercept recoveries. After that you can recover if you have your DJ.

Bayo's recovery works as follows:

Up b first and from here you have options...

ABK toward the stage will give you height for a DJ > 2nd WT

or

You can just DJ jump and ABK or WT back to the stage.

Done correctly without burning your second jump too soon you can recover from almost anywhere.

Have fun!

 

[Shuckle_SSB]

she does carry tho

 

[Floor]

she does carry tho

Every character carries their player tho

 

[Super FOG]

Every character carries their player tho

THIS!

Well, Bayonetta is crushed in the neutral at high level play, with exception of Witch Time she doesn't have any reliable KO setup, Bat Within is something very easy to trigger and punish, if you cut her midair jump during recovery you can destroy her ability to get back to the stage since she needs the second jump to repeat Up B. And the most important of all: SHE DOESN'T HAVE ANY RESULT WHATSOEVER!! I saw a crapload of people bracing themselves for a Brawl Meta Knight-like character, and it took 3,5 freaking months to people realize that's not the case, because they were so impressed at her upward KO combos that were always SDIable, this thing made people so obsessed in demoralize Bayonetta that they literally forgot how to play the game.

Bayonetta is actually a very complex character, majority of her combos are crazy hard, and the most basic ones are easily DIable and only works at very specific percentages, if you drag her to a stage full of platforms against a camping character like Villager, Bayo will have nearly nothing to do, the platforms will break her combos, the long range camping will make hard to get a Witch Time or even a combo setup. In fact, this is one of the major reasons of why Bayonetta is barely getting results, a camping character can outplay Bayonetta easily.

 

[Columbidae]

SHE DOESN'T HAVE ANY RESULT WHATSOEVER!!

False.

Her results are overall really strong: they're the best in the game.

Spoiler

(Credit goes to @Das Koopa )

Also, she arguably doesn't have any real top-level rep outside of 9B, whose results have been improved after he dropped Ryu for Bayonetta.

North American majors aren't everything when it comes to results.

E: After the newest patch, OP shouldn't have any problems proving them wrong..

 

[Super FOG]

I believe this patch will make the most whiney people shut up a bit. I was already expecting this since the moment the patch was announced. However, the warning still prevails, people need to learn the MU and stop waiting for patches to solve all the problems with the game. Believe me, there is a HUUUUGE amonut of people that thinks like this. It's infuriating.

 

[Buddhahobo]

False.

Her results are overall really strong: they're the best in the game.

Spoiler

(Credit goes to @Das Koopa )

Also, she arguably doesn't have any real top-level rep outside of 9B, whose results have been improved after he dropped Ryu for Bayonetta.

North American majors aren't everything when it comes to results.

E: After the newest patch, OP shouldn't have any problems proving them wrong.

But pre-patch, she definitely "carried" her players a bit, at least in that stage of meta (since counterplay didn't have too much time to develop to the point where everyone knows how to fight against her). Tyroy, for example, has beaten and has had close games with top level players like Abadango or Mr. R.

Again, That's Not What That Graph Says. The Actual Data You Took That Graph From Disagrees With You.

 

[Super FOG]

I didn't saw the graph :v

Fancy how all the rest of the cast has more results together than Bayonetta, lol

 

[Columbidae]

Ignore this.

 

[GamerTimeUS]

Bayonetta doesn't carry how all you think she does. That would be saying Cloud or Diddy doesn't carry a player. It's about how good those characters are. Bayonetta now has a very poor neutral compared to all the top and high tiers, she can't approach and now has to bait everything. (Basically she can just camp) Bayonetta also has no kill moves or combos. You can get out of her UpB with little to minimal DI, which extended her combos and the only moves that kill are uair and bair.