HELP me get pro at Melee, please!

[Sputnik]

Hello everyone. I've come to these boards requesting for help in becoming a professional (or at least better) type of player. I have become immensely frustrated because: I've practiced for days and days, I've learned wave-dashing, short-hopping, L-canceling (though I do have trouble L-canceling sometimes, especially when fights get close and fast paced) and am able to integrate all these movements somewhat adequately. I've watched hours and hours, perhaps days of tournaments events and friendlies through Youtube and Twitch. I've even watched the Smash Documentary (it was fascinating) and can name you any Melee Professional player..

Yet I can't even beat my Friends and Brother who barley play Melee that often.

I mean they are really good, but I still can't beat them consistently. I need advanced strats, tutorials, PDF's, videos, and YOU the members of the Smashboards to give me advice and guidance into becoming a professional-style player.

I appreciate any help, replies and links/references. Thanks <3

EDIT 1: If anyone wants to Skype me up, my ID is darkdayz1995

 

[1MachGO]

The usual trapping of many newcomers is the over-emphasis on tech skill. This is something (and I am speaking from experience) that most players succumb to. The root cause is definitely the lack of resources and the community's main crutch for advice being "check out the advanced how to play video" among other generalizations/redirections. This is honestly the slowest way to learn the game.

Here is a couple pieces of advice all newcomers should read:

1. Dividing up "play to win" and "play to learn"
It is a travesty how seldom suggested this advice goes. First of all, don't confuse this to mean that you shouldn't try (always try) but you should be trying to accomplish different things when you play. When you are just playing friendlies, don't stress yourself out with trying to win all the time; you'll get hung up on trying to develop some kind of "optimal" strategy to beat your friend and end up becoming a habitual player. Try and experiment and get familiar with your character and the nuances of different stages, match ups, etc. When you do try to win, apply what you learned.

2. Don't auto-pilot
This is typical advice, but I feel a lot of people kind of glide over its meaning. Auto-piloting is arguably the biggest roadblock of improvement and directly correlates to habitual play. You really have to force yourself to think about everything that you do and learning this skill is extremely advantageous for a low level player. Next time you decide to randomly throw an attack, try and ask yourself why you are doing it, and moreover, if you actually think it'll work. If you become aware of this sort of stuff then you'll begin to pick up on your own mistakes and learn/adapt.

 

[Sputnik]

The usual trapping of many newcomers is the over-emphasis on tech skill. This is something (and I am speaking from experience) that most players succumb to. The root cause is definitely the lack of resources and the community's main crutch for advice being "check out the advanced how to play video" among other generalizations/redirections. This is honestly the slowest way to learn the game.

Here is a couple pieces of advice all newcomers should read:

1. Dividing up "play to win" and "play to learn"
It is a travesty how seldom suggested this advice goes. First of all, don't confuse this to mean that you shouldn't try (always try) but you should be trying to accomplish different things when you play. When you are just playing friendlies, don't stress yourself out with trying to win all the time; you'll get hung up on trying to develop some kind of "optimal" strategy to beat your friend and end up becoming a habitual player. Try and experiment and get familiar with your character and the nuances of different stages, match ups, etc. When you do try to win, apply what you learned.

2. Don't auto-pilot
This is typical advice, but I feel a lot of people kind of glide over its meaning. Auto-piloting is arguably the biggest roadblock of improvement and directly correlates to habitual play. You really have to force yourself to think about everything that you do and learning this skill is extremely advantageous for a low level player. Next time you decide to randomly throw an attack, try and ask yourself why you are doing it, and moreover, if you actually think it'll work. If you become aware of this sort of stuff then you'll begin to pick up on your own mistakes and learn/adapt.

This is really great advice.. and I can relate to both of your points. I usually get frustrated and start throwing random moves around but I should try attacking wisely and adapting to map and other players. Thanks!

 

[caLviN-1260]

I definitely agree with the auto piloting thing. As someone who is still learning a lot, I often find myself losing games where I shouldn't because I'm not making an effort to try new techniques. I resort back to old standby, and for the most part weaker play styles, and I definitely don't improve as much as I would otherwise. Always try to push the envelope when it comes to playing in a casual environment, you have nothing to lose.

 

[VegiLohrd]

I can say as a newer player (like 6 months in at this point) that no matter what you have to be ok with losing. Sometimes I know I get so caught up with trying to win I forget even why I was trying something new in the first place. Sometimes you have to give up the win now so you can win more important games later. If it's a really casual environment, ask your opponent why and how they beat you.

 

[Sputnik]

I can say as a newer player (like 6 months in at this point) that no matter what you have to be ok with losing. Sometimes I know I get so caught up with trying to win I forget even why I was trying something new in the first place. Sometimes you have to give up the win now so you can win more important games later. If it's a really casual environment, ask your opponent why and how they beat you.

Agreed

 

[SpiderJerusalem]

Edit: I know the guy a few posts above me called the board out for posting the video, but the video is still worth a watch

Edit 2: Some advice I have is to not get caught up memorizing these Advanced Techniques. Yes they're important to know at higher levels, but just get comfortable with the game. Don't force yourself to try and wavedash when you don't really know how you should apply it. Start a 99 stock match w/a lvl 1 CPU. It sounds stupid but it's helpful. Play around with the game, experiment with your character of choice, practice some combos, just try to ground yourself more in the flow of the game. You can watch streams, videos, matches of professional players all you want, but it won't mean **** if you don't "know" the game and just try to replicate what you watched.

 

[Problem2]

"Don't get hit" - Isai

 

[Sputnik]

Edit: I know the guy a few posts above me called the board out for posting the video, but the video is still worth a watch

Edit 2: Some advice I have is to not get caught up memorizing these Advanced Techniques. Yes they're important to know at higher levels, but just get comfortable with the game. Don't force yourself to try and wavedash when you don't really know how you should apply it. Start a 99 stock match w/a lvl 1 CPU. It sounds stupid but it's helpful. Play around with the game, experiment with your character of choice, practice some combos, just try to ground yourself more in the flow of the game. You can watch streams, videos, matches of professional players all you want, but it won't mean **** if you don't "know" the game and just try to replicate what you watched.

I'll try practicing with 99 stock lvl 1 CPUs to got comfortable with the game and try landing some combos. Should I try lvl 9 CPUs though or.. its not worth?

 

[Kadano]

Wavedash back is ridiculously good against most inexperienced players. Go close to them to bait their attack, wavedash back and punish however you like (grabs are always good, especially with Sheik).

 

[Sputnik]

Wavedash back is ridiculously good against most inexperienced players. Go close to them to bait their attack, wavedash back and punish however you like (grabs are always good, especially with Sheik).

I do that often its fun to do

 

[SpiderJerusalem]

I'll try practicing with 99 stock lvl 1 CPUs to got comfortable with the game and try landing some combos. Should I try lvl 9 CPUs though or.. its not worth?

Nah, lvl 1. It's just mainly so you can have a moving target but won't fight back and try to mess things up. Nothing wrong with setting up 4 stock matches w/lvl 9, although it won't prepare you for advanced players. Still worth it though I guess, just don't get used to CPU playstyle

 

[1MachGO]

Never practice against level 9's unless you are doing some mock evasive/spacing training. Level 9's always DI up so its impossible to get beneficial combo training against them. Lvl 1 to lvl 3 have pretty mixed DI iirc, so they are much better to practice against. If you are learning a character with CGs, I also recommend using training mode and setting the enemy AI to evade which gives them okay DI for chain grab practice.

Overall though, I would say cpus only serve to help improve your tech skill consistency. Playing people is far more recommended.

 

[Darkly Dreaming Dexter]

Just keep practicing. If you have nobody to face you, face computers at the level your comfortable with, level 9 obviously being the most difficult, level 1 being the weakest. If you have no problem defeating level 9 cpus, challenge yourself, and fight them 3 versus 1 (which I personally can't do lol, as far as Melee goes anyway).

 

[Zylo]

It took me about 2-3 months after picking up the game to start beating people who were just inherently good and had been playing for a long time. Focus on learning all of the optimal strategies with your character so that you can start choosing the right options to punish/approach/whatever without putting too much emphasis on being overly technical. Also, edgeguarding is an invaluable tool against all manner of player, because no matter how good you are, you have pretty much the same options off stage. One thing that helps is to go in with a game plan of what you want to do in the neutral game/how you want to punish, so that if you find yourself feeling flustered mid-match, you have a strategy to fall back on instead of throwing out random moves. Also, grab combos are amazing against people who don't know how to DI them.

 

[Wing T]

Everyone brought up a lot of great points.

As others have mentioned the ATs are meaningless if you don't know when or how to implement them.

Example: You've got L-cancelling down, but are you actually utilizing those extra frames? Often players are so accustomed to the timing of landing lag and don't even realize they are wasting the time achieved through that particular AT. Remember to keep the flow going after the L-cancelled aerial.

Another thing to remember: punishing a well-timed roll is a lot harder than the pros make it look. Just because you can wavedash doesn't mean its the best option if you don't really know what you're doing. Also remember that different characters have different WD speeds/distances. If you don't have a grasp of said distance for the character then you can actually be setting yourself up for punishment.

Example: Say you are falco facing off against Marth and your strategy is to bait out moves with wavedash back for easy punishes after Marth's lag. It won't be helpful if you get too close because you will just WD back into Marth's tipper range.

So in short, if you don't understand the basics (zoning, punishing, edge guards, and basic match-ups), all that tech skill you're acquiring will really only help as a gimmick and landing some occasional hits that you wouldn't ordinarily.

 

[PhD EDEN]

OP, 1MachGO pretty much gave you the best advice. A few months in I was getting pretty frustrated with my performance against friends who seemingly just had natural aptitude, I'd stay up entire nights asking if I'd wasted my time. A few things really changed that for me. I learned to proficiently shl with falco, which pointed out to me that whenever I was running in regularly, I was just gambling with their reaction time. I'd also realized the importance of shield grabbing and shine our of shield, which imparted to me the knowledge you have many a means to effectively punish the same type of absent-mindedness that I was showing. As an example, I played one of those friends the other day. I four stocked him three times in a row, before getting more and more bored and eventually (around the sixth or so game) getting two stocked because all I did was run at him and attempt falcon knees.

 

[Sputnik]

Yup, right indeed. I've been starting to take advantage of my L-cancelling to punish and extend combos whereas before I wouldn't do much after it. My shffls also got way better and I'm using them more accurately.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

where in florida are you from? i can help tutor if you're in central florida.

 

[Sputnik]

where in florida are you from? i can help tutor if you're in central florida.

Hialeah.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

are you in the south florida melee group on facebook?

 

[Sputnik]

are you in the south florida melee group on facebook?

Yes sir.

 

[TheRealKia]

Don't get hit, Rank 1 EU.