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(Help) How can I beat Young Link being Mario?

Dark Mizzy

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 14, 2019
Messages
4
Hi! It is a pleasure to belong in the warm and friendly community of SmashBoards. I am main Mario in all deliveries of Smash, and in the competitive scene, I stand out for being the best Mario in my city. Now, in all (almost all) tournaments arriving at Grand Finals, I have to face a good player (who always comes to Grand Finals too) who is main Young Link. It costs me a lot this Match. Sometimes the character's projectiles confuse me and I despair, he also falls with Down Air and all the time he defeats me with it, in addition he dodges a lot and does the boring Young Link combo of UpB-Upair or Grab-Upair and always It costs me. How can I beat it? I need advice, I also want to know if the match is even or the victory is for Mario. Do I have to be patient or am I doing something wrong? My favorite player is Zenyou, thanks to him I have been able to achieve many combos and be one of the best here. I feel very frustrated because I feel that the match is for Mario, I have a lot of love for the character and I feel sad when I lose to Young Link. I await your advice. Let's go!
 

GhostM

Phantom
Joined
May 3, 2019
Messages
423
Location
Off the Radar
You want to understand that Mario’s archetype is a mix of a rushdown and hit and run type of character. Mario excels at destroying opponents with good reads and is capable of destroying zoners as well, which is Young Link’s archetype. In this case, I feel like Mario has slight advantage, but can be at a disadvantage if you can’t counter Young Links projectiles nor be able to beat his kill setups with DI.

Most of Young Links moves revolve him using projectiles to pressure opponents, which can be difficult if you play a character who does not reflect nor have a projectile himself. Young Link can easily combo projectile moves into each other that can setup kill moves to end on moves like dair and upB. Mario has a cape that can be used to send projectiles back to YL if timed correctly, although spamming it can easily be read by your opponents. It can be quite difficult to deal with since Young Link has better control when directing his projectiles, but reading these are key. Spacing in neutral is also very important, since one hit of a projectile from Young Link will help him combo you easier. Playing patiently is key to beating out zoners, since it will help you focus and read on habits that your opponents tend to do. By reading these habits, you can make them react in the way you want that’ll allow you to punish them, when they do things such as dodges or approaching with a projectile/aerial. Mario is a great character that can pressure opponents with bair and uair strings that can rack up damage quickly. One of Young Link’s weaknesses is that he lacks range with his aerials (projectiles sort of make up for this), but requires hard reads or setups in order to kill. Focusing and reacting with shield or perfect shield will help you narrow down the opportunities of Young Link to land kill moves such as fsmash and dair against you, and narrow his usage of projectiles against you. Even if Young Link can’t use his projectiles, moves such as dtilt and nair are quick moves that can be difficult to avoid since they can easily set for more combo setups. Spacing and perfect shield once again is viable against zoners, as well as mixing up your options for moves and movement to keep your opponent guessing.

Another thing is that stages can help any character avoid projectiles, even those who don’t have a projectile nor can reflect. Stages like battlefield can help you avoid projectiles by utilizing the platforms for your movement, which can be difficult for Young Link to use his projectiles against you, since it narrows down the options available to use projectiles, since bombs are the only option that allow him to hit directly above and below him. Even if they don’t use projectiles, Young Links moves are linear and can be predictable if he tries to challenge you off the platform, so reacting to his options is key to beating him.

Just note that it’ll take time to improve your matchup against Young Link, since each loss against him will help you learn more on how to approach and adapt to counter his playstyle. Playing the matchup more will help you improve, and even playing as Young Link can give you an idea of how approaches work for him. Not saying that you should 100% play as Young Link, but experimenting with him isn’t a bad idea.
 

Dark Mizzy

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 14, 2019
Messages
4
Merry Christmas, GhostM. I've seen you before in other posts in the Mario Discussion forum. You really are very kind and helpful, I appreciate that and also that you have come to help me. Well, you have really given me good advice, I am impatient to return the projectiles properly, but there is a problem, the opponent (main Young Link) always eliminates the Battlefield and Smashville (ban), the scenarios that suit Mario in this confrontation. What others can be useful in addition to Yoshi's Story (counterpick)? I have convinced myself that Mario does have a good advantage if a good DI is done and projectiles are counteracted correctly, also that my defeats may be due to lack of custom in the confrontation. But you're right, I have to be patient when playing. Space with FLUDD, use the fireballs and understand that Mario is a rushed, beaten and executed character. It's a bit strange, but only in this confrontation I can't control my nerves. The opponent most often abuses true combos and their kill settings. Could you recommend a video of this confrontation? I saw Zenyou vs Zan (coochieslayer) but I am looking for others. Thank you very much for everything, really!
 
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GhostM

Phantom
Joined
May 3, 2019
Messages
423
Location
Off the Radar
Merry Christmas, GhostM. I've seen you before in other posts in the Mario Discussion forum. You really are very kind and helpful, I appreciate that and also that you have come to help me. Well, you have really given me good advice, I am impatient to return the projectiles properly, but there is a problem, the opponent (main Young Link) always eliminates the Battlefield and Smashville (ban), the scenarios that suit Mario in this confrontation. What others can be useful in addition to Yoshi's Story (counterpick)? I have convinced myself that Mario does have a good advantage if a good DI is done and projectiles are counteracted correctly, also that my defeats may be due to lack of custom in the confrontation. But you're right, I have to be patient when playing. Space with FLUDD, use the fireballs and understand that Mario is a rushed, beaten and executed character. It's a bit strange, but only in this confrontation I can't control my nerves. The opponent most often abuses true combos and their kill settings. Could you recommend a video of this confrontation? I saw Zenyou vs Zan (coochieslayer) but I am looking for others. Thank you very much for everything, really!
Merry Christmas to you as well, even though it’s still quite early. Even though I technically main Falcon, I mained Dr. Mario back in 2008 and played with him long enough to understand his strengths, neutral, and weaknesses alongside Mario. Although it was in Melee, I still played Dr. Mario as a secondary and kept it that way throughout every Smash title as my most active secondary in the game, and still played regular Mario as well.

Now back on topic, since the Young Link keeps eliminating Battlefield and Smashville, it gives you a good idea that they know Young Link’s weaknesses and matchups are worse on these maps. For starters, I don’t play Ultimate in locals nor have been to any Ultimate tournaments, but some tournaments do allow other unique maps to be played from time to time that are usually banned in other tournaments. You might want to check to see if they have any of those maps, although it is rare to see them. I would suggest other maps like Town and City, and Pokemon Stadium 2.

Pokemon Stadium 2 is a choice because it has platforms as well that you can use for movement, but not really for camping. It can negate some of Young Link’s projectiles for a small period of time, and even just a little time can change everything. You also might want to check this stage in the ruleset since some areas like Chicago actually ban this stage and replace it with regular Pokemon Stadium.

Town and City is a choice since it has platforms to utilize to your advantage, especially since they move around as well. It can be quite difficult to deal with YL since the rest of the stage is a flat stage, where YL excels at pressuring opponents with all 3 of his projectiles. Make use of the platforms for combos, and spacing for neutral will help you out on this map. To me, this map is like a gamble depending on whether how well you play.

For your last question, I listed some videos where a Mario player faced off against a Young Link player. The YL player might not solely rely on true combos and their kill options, but they played really well. Might want to take some time to watch to learn from them:

Prodigy vs Toast - Shows how aggressive Young Link’s zoning tools are, and how it can be really effective. Use of Mario’s quick bair can sometimes be good to neutralize projectiles. Not sure why Toast challenged Mario up close with arrows sometimes, since it leaves YL wide open for punishes.

MastaMario vs Zan - Shows Link’s projectiles being used offensively and to pressure Mario’s recovery. The last match played on Town and City shows that flat stages can allow YL to combo Mario pretty well, and Zan shows this with excellent use of all three projectiles to rack up quick damage against Mario.
 
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Dark Mizzy

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 14, 2019
Messages
4
I really appreciate the help, really, thank you very much. I will improve a lot and learn more about Mario, pushing him to strong levels. To all this, it means that ... If the player plays Mario well, the confrontation is won by this character and not Young Link? I think Mario has a slight advantage with the conditions you mentioned, GhostM.
 

GhostM

Phantom
Joined
May 3, 2019
Messages
423
Location
Off the Radar
It depends really on how the person plays Mario. I believe that Mario has a slight advantage although if a player can’t deal with quick projectiles from Young Link, it’s either going to be an even match/a disadvantage for Mario. The two have quick moves but require reads to kill each other. Most of the pro matches I’ve seen have both Mario and Young Link on edge with each other, and sometimes either one wins but has a lot of percentage racked up against them.
 
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