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Help Beating Shulk

Ebbit

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
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31
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Wenatchee, Washington
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Shipwreck
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Hello, im new to smashboards, lurked for a while though. I have issues beating my friend who plays as shulk, i use captain falcon. He tends to counter, and i bait him out, but sometimes he still gets one off, is there a way i can avoid it? Also, when i edge guard, he uses his up-B to knock me away, and i have a hard time avoiding it. I also am having issues with spacing, i think i wont get hit, but i do anyways because i keep forgetting shulks range with his attacks. Thanks!
 

EternalFlame

Smash Ace
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Messages
525
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Eterna1Flame
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The counter is extended, but often leaves Shulk wide open to easy retaliation. If you know he has to use Up B to try and get you away from the ledge, shielding is usually an ideal option as afterwards he's wide open to be hit.

One trick that will probably help your approach is the dash cancel shielding or running shield. Basically, hold the shield button while still holding the direction you're running towards, and you will slide to a stop with your shield up. This is important so you can approach on ground when you expect your opponent to try and space you. Captain Falcon's speed is particularly good in this case, and ideally you don't want to give Shulk any breathing room. So rush in there and keep the pressure going.

Also, remember that your shield can be canceled at any point by jumping, so us that dash cancel shielding + shield jump cancel to get in there quick.

I know you didn't ask for approaching, but I thought it worth mentioning just in case. Maybe it might be a key to your victory over your Shulk friend xD

EDIT:
I cannot confirm it, but there is something else I think I should mention about Shulk's counter. Unless it's the forward stepping one, you should have enough time to spot dodge. I'm yet to test this out, but if he counters a very low commitment move or a projectile upon your approach, you should be able to spot dodge it.
 
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monadoboyy

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 15, 2014
Messages
16
Maybe I'm just bad but I hate playing against captain falcons, his attacks come faster than mine, he's so freaking fast and hard hitting. Stay in Shulk's face but be wary of the counter like the above posts mentioned
 

FlareHabanero

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Also, take advantage of whatever Monado Art is active, since each one has a certain con.

Jump reduces defenses, meaning your attacks will inflict slightly more damage. Same thing with shields.

Speed makes Shulk's attack weaker and his recovery is worse. Very trick to flat out counter since Shulk has a lot of stage control due to the high speed, and can sucker punch you with a sliding pivot forward tilt or grab.

Shield, where due to the reduced mobility you can either stall out Shulk until the Art vanishes, or you can gimp Shulk off the edge. It's the easiest to counter of the batch.

Buster reduces knockback, which can save you from being KO'd in certain situations.

Smash reduces damage to pathetic amounts.

Of course, a savvy Shulk player will constantly change the Monado Art based on the situation so taking advantage of each one isn't straight forward. Try to coax the Shulk player to activate one of the above and take advantage of the situation.
 

EternalFlame

Smash Ace
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Eterna1Flame
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1993-8719-0815
Also, take advantage of whatever Monado Art is active, since each one has a certain con.

Jump reduces defenses, meaning your attacks will inflict slightly more damage. Same thing with shields.

Speed makes Shulk's attack weaker and his recovery is worse. Very trick to flat out counter since Shulk has a lot of stage control due to the high speed, and can sucker punch you with a sliding pivot forward tilt or grab.

Shield, where due to the reduced mobility you can either stall out Shulk until the Art vanishes, or you can gimp Shulk off the edge. It's the easiest to counter of the batch.

Buster reduces knockback, which can save you from being KO'd in certain situations.

Smash reduces damage to pathetic amounts.

Of course, a savvy Shulk player will constantly change the Monado Art based on the situation so taking advantage of each one isn't straight forward. Try to coax the Shulk player to activate one of the above and take advantage of the situation.
Though funny enough, I use Vanilla Shulk until I see a need to use Monato arts (even then, I may just stay vanilla shulk just cus I can xD) Shulk's game by itself is great, but the Monato arts make it just lots of fun to throw off the opponent's groove.

Just keep in mind what everyone said Ebbit, and you're set to fight your Shulk friend.
 

Ebbit

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Wenatchee, Washington
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It seems like almost everytime i attack, he manages to use the counter. Im afraid to try and attack him outright, any way to get around this?
 

DrShankums

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 23, 2014
Messages
47
Go for grabs, or mix up your approach and bait out the counter. Try using empty hops to trip him up.
 
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Nammy12

Smash Lord
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It seems like almost everytime i attack, he manages to use the counter. Im afraid to try and attack him outright, any way to get around this?
If he spams counter than keep grabbing until he stops. Also, try running into shield and seeing how he reacts. Keep pressure on Shulk with your jabs.
 

Ebbit

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Holy, i charged up a side smash when he was in shield, he countered and i went from 14% to 59% and got ko'd. I hate shulk so much. Also i die like 95% of the time to his counters, ****ing hate shulk so much, im afraid to try and ko him because he could just counter it.
 
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DarkKiru

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 8, 2014
Messages
55
Holy, i charged up a side smash when he was in shield, he countered and i went from 14% to 59% and got ko'd. I hate shulk so much. Also i die like 95% of the time to his counters, ****ing hate shulk so much, im afraid to try and ko him because he could just counter it.
Thats something to avoid, don't throw out a super telegraphed attack against Shulk (or anyone with a counter really) unless you know he won't be able to counter it.

Your just ASKING for him to counter you, I don't have much experience with Falcon, but if any of his aerials are good kill moves, you might be better off going for short hop aerials to kill Shulk once you've built his % up since those tend to be less laggy than smashes.
 

DrShankums

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 23, 2014
Messages
47
That's a big no no against any character with a counter. You need need to go for grabs. Shulk wants to let you be the aggressive one, so you need to have some mindgames. That's a big part of playing captain falcon. Look up some falcon specific tech. His grab boost is amazing. He can combo very well off of a throw, which is the anticounter. Abuse it.
 
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EternalFlame

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Holy, i charged up a side smash when he was in shield, he countered and i went from 14% to 59% and got ko'd. I hate shulk so much. Also i die like 95% of the time to his counters, ****ing hate shulk so much, im afraid to try and ko him because he could just counter it.
As the others said, its usually best never to telegraph your attack like that. Shulk's counter throws the damage back at you and multiplies it by 1.3 or something like that, and worst still if he's in Smash or Buster mode, which can add to the damage still.

Firstly, don't hate on the character for this, cus hate will only blind you from fighting properly. Next, from what you're telling us about the counter to your death ratio, you're going in too telegraphed with your attacks. Shulk's counter is very similar to all the others, where they need to know when you will attack for it to work. Be patient and pick your times carefully. Mix between grabs, ground attacks, air attacks, and even empty hops to keep your opponent guessing. Remember that running shield tactic too, as you'll need that whenyou want to get close.

Lastly, don't fear the counter. If you know that your opponent will counter you, then throw your attack ahead of time (preferrably low commitment moves like UAir, Jab, or tilt) and make him try to counter it too early. When they are in shield, its usually better not to keep charging, because they could easily dodge roll or counter as you saw your friend do.

Try going for the DThrow > UAir combo to chase him off stage, then when he tries to recover, wait till he commits to a move then rinse and repeat. It'll train him not to counter heavily anymore, and you can get into his head. Mess with his thought process by playing outside of your usual style.

As a final thing, I believe this is more a fundamental problem over a character specific problem. I can't make much judgements in terms of your playstyle unless I see it for myself. But if you'd like, we could fight a few rounds so I can see where you are at, then give you pointers from there.
 

Gameboi834

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Seriously, all of Shulk's aerials outrange, outspeed, and basically outhitbox Falcon's. There's very little chance of you landing one and Shulk's speed, %, and range are obnoxiously high. What's up with that?
 

EternalFlame

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Seriously, all of Shulk's aerials outrange, outspeed, and basically outhitbox Falcon's. There's very little chance of you landing one and Shulk's speed, %, and range are obnoxiously high. What's up with that?
That's actually quite debatable, even if Shulk were in speed art. C.Falcon is quite able to outspeed Shulk, as long as you're attacking in preparation for Shulk. If both characters were to throw, say, NAir (C.Falcon) vs FAir (Shulk), Shulk can only win if C.Falcon did not throw his move first and was spaced properly. Any melee based character naturally has faster to Frame 1 aerials that Shulk can't beat unless he hits them with the starting frame from his NAir or FAir (which is behind and below for the former, upfront and slightly above for the latter). Shulk can adapt, but only for a time; C.Falcon is naturally built fast and doesn't have a timer on his movement/attack adjustment.

If you want more percise info, I'm sure there's some frame data lying around somewhere on the boards for both characters that you can compare xD
 

Gameboi834

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That's actually quite debatable, even if Shulk were in speed art. C.Falcon is quite able to outspeed Shulk, as long as you're attacking in preparation for Shulk. If both characters were to throw, say, NAir (C.Falcon) vs FAir (Shulk), Shulk can only win if C.Falcon did not throw his move first and was spaced properly. Any melee based character naturally has faster to Frame 1 aerials that Shulk can't beat unless he hits them with the starting frame from his NAir or FAir (which is behind and below for the former, upfront and slightly above for the latter). Shulk can adapt, but only for a time; C.Falcon is naturally built fast and doesn't have a timer on his movement/attack adjustment.

If you want more percise info, I'm sure there's some frame data lying around somewhere on the boards for both characters that you can compare xD
I think you've identified the problem- I'm not throwing my moves faster enough! I don't think I'm omitting enough, like Shulk is intimidating me or something; sounds like something I need to work on.
Thank you for the insight!
 

EternalFlame

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I think you've identified the problem- I'm not throwing my moves faster enough! I don't think I'm omitting enough, like Shulk is intimidating me or something; sounds like something I need to work on.
Thank you for the insight!
Glad to be of service xD

Know your opponent, and throw out moves before they perform their motion. In a sense, you can compare it to Jeet Kune Do; every motion or attack they choose to perform, they must move first into the correct position and space it properly to do so efficently. Now it's an adaptation of what Bruce Lee once said, but the principle is there. As a melee character vs sword characters, you must anticipate this motion, and quickly interrupt your opponent before they even have a chance to fully register the motion into completion. Thankfully, C.Falcon is rather fast, so this can be done quite well when you get the hang of it.

When you know an attack is too fast to intercept, your next option is then to block/dodge, then continue the assault. C.Falcon not a projectile user, so being ultra defensive won't help you much. You have the running shield option, and your out of shield options like the grab or jump cancel to quickly break the block stun and continue rushing forward. Putting all that together with learning C.Falcon's good hits or combos makes you a far worse nightmare for Shulk than the other way around. All this is a reaction sort of thing that you'll build as you keep playing xD

EDIT: I find it rather funny that on a Shulk board, we're talking about how to beat Shulk as another character xD
 
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JayTheUnseen

Smash Champion
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Nov 15, 2014
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2,099
If he's counter-happy,maybe try just running toward him to bait it.If he falls for it,charge up a smash for a few seconds while he's stuck in the animation,then release.
 

N7Kopper

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Don't charge your smashes or throw Falcon Punches unless you get a hard read or guard break. Not only do they make you vulnerable, you take more knockback if hit while charging a smash, and Shulk doesn't do combos, so that's no disadvantage for him. That really goes for any matchup. Breaking an enemy's shield is hard, but rewarding. I managed to get off a fully charged Robin Levin Fsmash AFTER a down taunt "You're not ready!" against Ganondorf with one - don't rely on breaking shields, though, because any good player will lower them before it happens. Lay off the Knee of Justice, too. the Monado outranges that sweetspot and isn't really slower than it, either. Of course, unless you get a vector read and combo from hitstun.

If your friend uses Buster a lot, that's the time to set up combos - go for grab starters if friend gets Vision-happy - because Buster lowers Shulk's defence. Control the flow of battle and force Shulk into MArts you have an easier time dealing with.
 
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TheBulletBot

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 27, 2018
Messages
1
shulk is laggy as hell and easily punishable. I always do the n00b combo (up tilt+up tilt etc...) until he escapes, easy 50 dmg. then I try to downthrow upB or get him off the edge and Dtaunt to spike him. ( I play luigi, upB OP) try to bait out his Dsmash and then combo him.
 

1FC0

Smash Lord
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Aug 21, 2013
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Holy, i charged up a side smash when he was in shield, he countered and i went from 14% to 59% and got ko'd. I hate shulk so much. Also i die like 95% of the time to his counters, ****ing hate shulk so much, im afraid to try and ko him because he could just counter it.
Counter is all about mindgames. If your opponent outmindgames you then you get countered for often good damage and knockback, but if you win then you can often hit Shulk with a grab or Smash.
Counter is a high-risk/high-reward mindgaming tool and will only work on you if your opponent is a superior mindgamer, which means that if you lose to it then you deserved that loss.

So your hate of Shulk is based on the fact that your friend is better at mindgames than you are. Why not try to delay your attacks and punish his counter, or just grab him?
 

Riophilip

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Okay he is getting better and is more of a greninja main. He is pretty bad at the game anyway if that helps at all

Wait...

He's getting better?











BETTER NERF GRENINJA!!!!!!!!
 
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