Heckling

[DoH]

So I went to a tournament this weekend and had my firsthand experience with Atlantic South heckling. I was playing my tournament matches, first in teams and then in a losers bracket match vs Colbol, when suddenly from amid the cheers of the crowd comes some really awful sentiments. Certain players were yelling, four feet behind us, how much we suck at this game, how we can't l-cancel, and how much we should be sodomized with shit.

I for one, found this abysmal and disrespectful. I drove 12 hours to Georgia to have someone shout obscenities in my ear because I was beating their friends? It's just flat out rude, and there's a definite threshold crossed between telling someone to stack it up and telling them that they play a fake character and should essentially eat shit and die. It's fine to encourage your friends, but to trash talk someone while they're trying to play a tournament set is rude and unsportsmanlike. I feel like we're playing singles and doubles, not one vs one + their crowd of friends. We're supposed to be a community of friends and brothers, and even if it's not personal, it definitely borders on animus. Also it's tacky as hell.

What are your thoughts on heckling? Is it part of the game? Or should people be respectful of players? Should TOs step in to prevent crowd interaction from impacting the matches?

 

[pockyD]

part of the game!

 

[Pink Reaper]

Do what Eggz does, put in some headphones, play music that chills you out and ignore the ****ers.

 

[Mic_128]

I would have thought that rather than ignoring something that gives a very negative opinion of your region and the game as a whole would be better looked at stopping it than just sweeping it under the carpet and ignoring it.

If I was hosting in the above situation I'd have given them a warning and if they continued to do so kick them out of the venue. I'd rather tournaments be a fun and enjoyable experience for everyone, not just the group of ***holes who make a nuisance of themselves.

 

[pockyD]

i'm more in favor of an open atmosphere where people can speak freely

as previously suggested, if it affects your play, you can drown it out with headphones

 

[Deleted member]

I agree that it's part of the game but only to the extent that the crowd is still the crowd. if you have to ask the host to make them stop, they should be removed from the venue. 1 warning, then booted.

if they're already out of the tournament when you boot them, put them into losers and give their opponents a "bye" round 1 at the next tournament they enter. either they'll stop it when it's costing them money, or those players won't show up anymore. either way, problem solved. better than kicking out the same people repeatedly.

 

[Slhoka]

I agree that it's part of the game but only to the extent that the crowd is still the crowd. if you have to ask the host to make them stop, they should be removed from the venue. 1 warning, then booted.

This.
This problem never happened at the tournaments I hosted. The crowd was always positive, cheering for a player instead of booing his opponent, so I was fine with it.

 

[Mic_128]

i'm more in favor of an open atmosphere where people can speak freely

Can I and a group of friends stand next to you, heads by your ear and bellow that you're a ****-monger during a match? Free speech!

I'd like to imagine you wouldn't allow that.

 

[pockyD]

Can I and a group of friends stand next to you, heads by your ear and bellow that you're a ****-monger during a match? Free speech!

I'd like to imagine you wouldn't allow that.

case by case basis, obviously not as cut and dried as your making it out to be

just saying i err toward the lenient side

 

[Slhoka]

I believe that one of main aims of a TO is to provide better games for the crowd, with the highest level of play possible. With this in mind, I feel necessary to frown upon such behaviours. Encouraging people to make them play better sounds good to me, booing one to make him worse than he actually is doesn't.

 

[Deleted member]

I remember going to pound, where forward literally yelled point blank in m2k's ear while he played in the finals. that was pretty cool right?

i was at a tournament once in upstate new york where i had a kid ****ing with my chair and yelling at me about the same way in the winners finals set and i told him to stop. match 3 i got tired of it, paused the game, forfeit that match, physically dragged him outside and punched him in the face. i'm pretty liberal too, but there's a limit.

 

[Wobbles]

Yeah, that was me and DoH at TO6. Here's my personal take on it.

We'll post in the thread saying "hey guys, we're thinking about coming," and then tons of people go "oh **** it's Wobbles and DoH you gotta come it's gonna be hype oh boy oh boy." Then we take the weekend off work and get people to cover our shifts. We then drive 12+ hours to get to this venue, we sign up, and everybody is super positive. Glad you could come guys! Yeah, no problem.

We start playing and it's not terribly long before, right in my ****ing ear I start hearing about how terrible I am. About how I should eat **** and die. About how I am a garbage player who doesn't deserve anything, about how stupid my character is. Every time I land a combo I get booed or insulted. Every time I make a mistake, people cheer and make fun of me.

One of my games against IHSB had a crowd of twenty people watching us, cheering every time he landed a hit of any kind. I was totally okay with that because it stayed positive. And when I landed a bull**** combo of my own and nobody cheered, I stood up, turned, faced the crowd and shouted "OHHHHH" on my own behalf. This is legit. You don't have to demand the crowd root for you when you're the away team.

But the nonsense that crowd was spouting went far beyond that. From a purely competitive standpoint, it crossed the line into direct interference with gameplay. From a personal standpoint, it was hurtful, distracting, and it makes me wish I hadn't wasted my ****ing time going to that tournament so me and DoH could get lambasted with profanities for a weekend.

 

[TheZhuKeeper]

But the nonsense that crowd was spouting went far beyond that. From a purely competitive standpoint, it crossed the line into direct interference with gameplay. From a personal standpoint, it was hurtful, distracting, and it makes me wish I hadn't wasted my ****ing time going to that tournament so me and DoH could get lambasted with profanities for a weekend.

Makes me wonder how people in SF / mvc / those games do it. I hear people in that community have it much worse than we do.

But yeah, I think it's kind of counterproductive for regions to do this. This honestly makes me not want to travel to Georgia, that's for sure LOL.


Sidenote: I remember Everlasting Yay saying something about my "lack of eyes" when I was playing PP. That made me rage inside but I remembered how much I liked PP so I forgave him. But yeah I really wanted to say something racist back cause him / his gf were saying that **** like that the whole set LOOL. ughhhlkj;k

 

[wWw Dazwa]

Lighthearted, hilarious negative trash talk is perfectly fine. It sparks rivalries, creates tension for the match, adds hype, gets crowd, etc etc.

Certain players were yelling, four feet behind us, how much we suck at this game, how we can't l-cancel,

I get it! Peach has float canceling instead of l-canceling! Hilarious, it's not even technically less difficult, especially to do efficiently, but it's trash talk nonetheless

and how much we should be sodomized with shit.

I blame the south.

 

[KevinM]

There is a point where matches can be decided moreso by the crowd trying to attack the player then anything else.

 

[Deleted member]

That made me rage

no joke, i can't visualize you raging in any way. you're just so...fluffy.

 

[Dogysamich]

Makes me wonder how people in SF / mvc / those games do it. I hear people in that community have it much worse than we do.

But yeah, I think it's kind of counterproductive for regions to do this. This honestly makes me not want to travel to Georgia, that's for sure LOL.

Quick Answer: They deal with it and they're more willing to be rivalry based, as opposed to the melee community which honestly tries to be "tight knit and friendly"

The Real Answer: Most "notable" tourneys in other communities (be it worldwide tourneys all the way down to weeklies, literally), tend to have their major matches played in some sort of a stage area where nobody is allowed to go. Few are starting to go as far as to have head-to-head setups for complete isolation (i.e. the MLG finals setup from... 05? 06? Somewhere in that area.

It happens from time to time in melee afaik, such as APEX, but there is little to no enforcement of it in the community.

There really is no way to stop somebody from talking trash. That's really unreasonable in most competitive enviroments. Call it bad sportsmanship, call it being an ***, call it what you want, in the end it's people competiting against people and some individuals naturally have a negative demeanor.

You CAN, however, enforce where they stand. I'm not gunna front, I won't act like I haven't taken my share of taking shots at people, or just being obnoxiously loud for absolutely no reason, but I've been through enough situations to see the difference between standing 1 foot behind somebody yelling and being in the back of the crowd. I honestly think that's the only real, reasonable soluation you're going to get.

Troll Answer: Ask Hungrybox. I'd put money on TO4 being the last time it caused him a problem, and he's gone as far as to change the tierlist.

 

[Ignatius]

Basic rule of thumb I follow is don't be a chode. That seems to work out.

 

[SwiftBass]

I think that talking lots of junk and getting loud is fine within the region at locals. Relatively speaking, people don't travel too far and everyone kind of knows each other. For instance I cheer against Hax all of the time and he does the same. Sometimes we get pretty loud etc etc.


In a regional/national setting I think the terms should be different. DoH and Wobbles def have my regards. Its ridiculous to be invited to a region, take off time from work and go through the effort of travel etc to be boo'd and insulted on a personal level.


I disagree about the headphone thingy. Some people's game relies on in game sounds. (I know part of my game does.). A player shouldn't have to decide whether or not to deter sounds from the crowd while trying to concentrate on the match too. The person not being cheered/insulted against is not presented with that dilemma.

I am not asking for european golf claps and stuff(even though I would love that) but lets be real here....if wobbles/DoH were compelled enough to make a decent post about the crowds then I think that there is some legitimacy in their plight. I am not saying that the line is crystal clear, but come on.....its is often easy to differentiate the harmful/mean-spirited from the light-hearted/playful I have been preaching this idea for a while now and I think that something should be done at least on a national level by the TO's. The raw deal that some of the europeans got at pound 4 was a bit much to say the least. They have my utmost respect just for their dedication to the game and making the trip let alone their ability in the game itself. I am holding tourneys in CT which I guess I would consider locals, but if they ever stretch beyond the scope of new england / tristate , I am going to do my best to ensure that link_master_ace208 from cali will not be ran out of my tourney.

 

[AXE 09]

We start playing and it's not terribly long before, right in my ****ing ear I start hearing about how terrible I am. About how I should eat **** and die. About how I am a garbage player who doesn't deserve anything, about how stupid my character is. Every time I land a combo I get booed or insulted. Every time I make a mistake, people cheer and make fun of me.

Wtf man! This is terrible.

I feel that cheering for someone during a match is totally fine, but verbally attacking his opponent is out of the question. I see this happen way too much. Show your respect, people.

 

[SleepyK]

welcome to the south

it's definitely really a shocker if you're not used to it from hearing it constantly.
Landon and Rob, I sincerely apologize for what happened.
I can already assume I know who the two main offending parties were, so next time you come to a GA event I'll personally enforce a no personal insults rule with them. I hope this doesn't deter you from coming to another GA event; you guys are really great.

mic and mow have the right idea.

oh, and i think rob has the right idea in this picture:

 

[Druggedfox]

And when I landed a bull**** combo of my own and nobody cheered, I stood up, turned, faced the crowd and shouted "OHHHHH" on my own behalf.

I loved this, so much. SO MUCH

This was my first big GA tourney and... wow, I did not expect that. Sorry DoH and Wobbles, I couldn't believe what I was hearing, it was definitely way overboard. Everything's been said already, but I really do want to apologize for any of that... it was awful, and I was personally disgusted by a lot of it.

 

[Wobbles]

I wish I was as good as HBox. He can just shut all the haters up by winning non-stop, and if they still don't shut up he can just dry his tears with wads of 20 dollar bills.

 

[TheZhuKeeper]

I wish I was as good as HBox. He can just shut all the haters up by winning non-stop, and if they still don't shut up he can just dry his tears with wads of 20 dollar bills.

Exchange a twenty for twenty ones!

 

[DoH]

I think there is a fine line between harmless trash talk and what went on here. It was crass, tactless, and in my case homophobic and tacky. I mean, I was wearing a tiara on my head, obviously I'm gay. But to repeatedly call me, my character, and stage selection gay or ******ty, there's something inherently wrong with that, especially with the venom in which it was hurled. There was nothing to do with sexual orientation in my picking of Brinstar on game three against a really good fox player, I was playing to win.

And I don't think I should be forced to wear headphones to drown out boisterous children, especially when a part of my game (power shielding) relies on audible cues.

 

[Wobbles]

That's interesting D'oH. I remember everybody cheering for the Sheik that counterpicked Brinstar against my ICs and spent a fair chunk of the match needle camping me. I don't think Brinstar has anything to do with it.

 

[Mike G]

I'm not sure, but If Brandon(Red Fox) had anything to do with this, then I'll have a talk with him. Also keep in mind that he was only there on Saturday.


There is more I wanna say about this but I'm away on mobile atm

 

[SleepyK]

Mike and I got this on lock!

I can't apologize enough, though.

 

[Dr Peepee]

=(

I feel really bad.....

 

[DoH]

Robbles, that's because Sheik is a real character, and it's ok to "outgay" your "gayness" of playing ICs with a "gay" stage if you play a real character. But picking Brinstar with a fake character is just too much homo for the deep south.

 

[Skler]

D'oH, have you considered changing your title to "too much homo for the deep south"?

I think that would be bad ***.

Also, heckling is ok if it's just heckling. There's such a thing as being too loud to ignore. I don't mind the occasional witty quip about how homosexual a certain move/tactic/stage/character is, or even a clever jab at my parentage because of what character was picked. I do mind when the comments are being shouted at me from a distance of no greater than one foot.

Everyone is entitled to their personal space and to not having to deal with people screaming in their ears. The words that are said don't really bother me at all, I just think it should be at a volume where you can at least hear the game.

 

[hungrybox]

THE COASTS

WEST = THE BEST?
EAST = THE BEAST?
SOUTH = THE MOUTH

I was there for TO6, and certain players were being very, very annoying and unfair towards the players.


I would protest, except that I have to deal with it ALL the time, and getting used to it is just part of professional play....

I mean, come on. When would I not get heckled?

 

[Alex Strife]

def should of got kicked out the venue.

trash talk is normal but stuff like that is a little overboard.

 

[Aldwyn McCloud]

i'm more in favor of an open atmosphere where people can speak freely

as previously suggested, if it affects your play, you can drown it out with headphones

Problems begin when a player needs to hear the game's sounds, otherwise he'll play worse.

Apart from this, it's very TO dependent so I don't think the MBR has any business here. Everyone (including me) agrees that TOs should take care of players being polite and respectful with each other but the threshold beyond which a player should be warned/banned can vary from person to person. I myself would have warned the crowd in your situation though.

 

[Nihonjin]

I would protest, except that I have to deal with it ALL the time, and getting used to it is just part of professional play....

Quoted for truth.

 

[Marc]

Except there is a difference between "you have a gay playing style" and "you are [insert derogatory term for sexual preference/ethnicity/whatever] and should die". The latter has nothing to do with positive hype or freedom of speech, they are personal insults no one should have to take.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Im almost certain a huge portion of the south's heckling enters into the "hate crime" level.

 

[SleepyK]

The south:
welcome to it.

 

[Nihonjin]

Im almost certain a huge portion of the south's heckling enters into the "hate crime" level.

Then that's punishable by law and obviously shouldn't be allowed.

But if it's just people yelling (normal) insults, who cares? Unless they're directly yelling in your ear you'll just have to deal with it.

 

[pockyD]

yeah, anything that goes "too far" is "too far" by definition

anything less than that should be allowed

without being there, none of us is in a position to rule on whether it was "too far" or not. As with most things outside of the game, it's up to the TO to make a fair ruling in all cases