Haxdashing in PM

[lordhelmet]

Does anyone know if it's possible to do perfect haxdashes in PM? I'm hoping my timing is off. In debug mode (haven't tried frame advance yet), I can't get Falcon to stay blue the entire time; usually his head is poking above the ledge when invincibility wears off.

Edit: should have just tested it in debug mode. Yes, it works. Do you guys think it is easier in PM or in Melee? Seems easier to do in Melee for me.

 

[DMG]

You get a frame or two more invincibility in Melee, but otherwise they should be about the same difficulty

 

[Rachman]

Definitely seems easier in melee to me as well. Well, moreso different and since I'm primarily a Melee player it definitely trips me up. I don't think it SHOULD be different but it seems so to me at least.

 

[DMG]

I think it has to do with 1 frame physics delay. That should apply to airdodge and maybe DJing, so that would explain the 1-2 frame differences pretty easily

 

[Rachman]

That definitely makes sense and explains a lot. I stopped attributing everything to the 1 frame thing awhile ago after I realized it didn't have nearly as much of an impact as people tend to say it does but that made me completely ignore it here.

 

[Jacuzzi]

Which haxdash is better: the shorter one (where you barely clip the edge with a waveland), or the longer haxdash (the one with the full length waveland to ledge drop)? I'm practicing it right now for the first time, and I can do both pretty decently, though not fully invincible. Or, if each one serves a different purpose, let me know that, as well if you would. Thanks!

 

[DMG]

Shorter one is better

 

[Jacuzzi]

Shorter one is better

Thanks!

 

[lordhelmet]

I realized after I posted this that I was missing my fastfall. I can get it now but not very consistently. I basically do a quarter circle. Are there any other methods to make this easier?

 

[Rachman]

Just tap the last angle twice. The 2nd tap initiates a fast fall and u don't have to move your control stick

 

[Dr3amSm4sher]

Which haxdash is better: the shorter one (where you barely clip the edge with a waveland), or the longer haxdash (the one with the full length waveland to ledge drop)? I'm practicing it right now for the first time, and I can do both pretty decently, though not fully invincible. Or, if each one serves a different purpose, let me know that, as well if you would. Thanks!

I say the further one is better if you can do it fully invincible as you have less risk of killing yourself to an airdodge off stage. But the short one has its merits in the form that you can do the invincible waveland into double jump to platform near invincibly. If you can do the short one perfect so be it. But what do I know.

 

[Rachman]

Once you can RLD/haxdash comfortably it's generally going to be letting go of the ledge a few frames late that causes you to lose full invincibility (one reason I recommend rumble) as every frame you take to let go of the ledge after cliffcatch (the grabbing the ledge animation that takes 7 frames before you can actually let go of the ledge or perform any ledge option) is complete is another frame you will be vulnerable before being able to regrab the ledge, regardless of how fast you do the actual RLD/haxdash motion. The actual haxdash motion has like ~8 frames of leniency IIRC (been awhile since I tested it so 100% on that) so it's really unlikely that a properly done RLD will suffer extra vulnerability frames because of anything other than letting go of the ledge too late.

 

[DMG]

Yeah it's really hard to be consistent with letting go of the edge as quick as possible. It's safer to aim for 1-2 frames after the window, since doing inputs too early will give you nothing. It's less of an issue if you're trying to ledge dash / waveland onstage and try to retain invincibility, since if your character has a good one they probably can afford a couple frames off. I'm not sure about ECB or whatever changes, may be differences from PM to Melee. Being too slow may impact your ECB refresh and make your waveland less optimal?

I hate rumble, can't describe how much it throws me off. Not sure how much of an edge it would give, assuming a person looking to be truly proficient in haxdash or ledge play in general wouldn't already be trying to study and practice those things.

 

[Dr3amSm4sher]

Consistency comes with time. I just practiced on 20xx with frame counter on and kept going until i was consistently getting 4 or less frames holding the ledge after i could let go. (I play marth and he only gets 4 frames of invincibility after a perfect waveland on stage) just one ledge hop to reset and then begin. You can also try doing it immediately out of grabbing the edge with up b or wavedashing off stage. Just getting yourself familiar with the 7 frame timing and your ability to retain invincibility gets so much better when it comes to ledgedashes, haxdashes, and invincible aerials. (I also learned the hax dash with marth originally, which is a much tighter timing on everything.) I have noticed that some edges of stages hate me though and will let my ecb clip right through where i thought the edge was (Pokemon stadium 2). I just look at it in debug frame advance and just find the earliest frame i can do the waveland back. Then i just go for that.

Also turn on hitbox/hurtbox display while you are doing your haxdashes as that helps alot to. I would consistently get 1 or 2 frames off of letting go of ledge but only half of my dash would be invincible. I spent so much brain power focusing on letting go on the first frame that i would forget to jump immediately after and waste like 12 frames of invincibility. I would have never known because it still looks like I'm flashing white. When you do it right you should stay blue the whole time and if you can see not blue for even what seems like a frame I think that means you took at least 3 frames either too long to do the motion or let go of the edge.

 

[Lil Bucket Hat]

It is absolutely easier, bruh