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Haven't Been Able to Figure Out a Basic Strategy for Corrin

One Tilt

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 28, 2014
Messages
155
Skipping the typical obligatory background a bit, the long and short of things is that my practice with Corrin has always felt disjointed and unfocused. I understand the broad strokes (edgeguard/gimp, grab often, occasional tilt/aerial true combos, juggling focus, Smashes or Uthrow to kill, et cetera), but those equate to... well, tactics, at best. At any given time, I have no tools for creating any cohesive strategy for Corrin, which cripples my ability to practice.

But let me give some examples, given how strangely I'm sure to be phrasing this. On Diddy Kong, I understand some good options for most every situation. Neutral game? I can fish for banana grabs, space some falling Fairs (which mixup into tomahawks), and possibly dtilt->fair if they get in close. My goal is to land combos with things like Dthrow->Bair->Bair, Dthrow->Uair, Dtilt->Fair, and/or to juggle with Uair, Fair, and the occasional FF Nair. My main KO methods are banana->Fsmash, Dair spikes, and Fair gimping... with the occasional read on a Dsmash/Uair KO. And when in disadvantage, I've got side B to cover some ground, B reverse bananas, and some oddball moves like downwards up B... And to top that off, I understand that my weakest point will be dealing with Diddy's recovery, along with having some mild issues with zoning characters.

It's certainly not all-encompassing, but by compare, by game plan for Corrin is... blank. I understand that Corrin's biggest strength is juggling, but not how to actually execute that. I understand that grabs are important, but not what to do afterwards (since there's no real follow-ups). I get that dragon lunge is powerful... but not how and when to use it, or when to use short hops versus instant pin versus the stock side B hop. I get that Corrin is good at edgeguarding... but not how or when to use any particular option...

Simply put, I understand the properties of Corrin's moves, but that means nothing to me when I have no real information on the when and whys of using them. I get the consistent sense of using the wrong moves at the wrong time, which I don't experience on other characters like Diddy, Mario, or Marth. Normally, just labbing, playing, learning combos, and feeling out a character's movement lets me figure out a 'method'... but Corrin hasn't worked that way, so I figure that I might be best served just asking around. The way I've learned other characters is through analysis more than anything, so having no sense for that is really keeping me from improving my Corrin game. I mean, even watching some games from Cosmo and the like isn't giving me much of a clear picture to work with-- I can see the tools, but not how they fit together, I guess?

tl;dr: What should I be the -first- thing I try and really hone in on to play Corrin? The basic 'go-to' plan that I could iron out labbing some AI games, that I could build upon in real games later? For Mario, it was throw combos, bair, and nair. For Marth, it was tippered Ftilt, jab strings, and dancing blade. For Diddy, it was banana grabs, Fair, and Uair. But for Corrin? All I really have is hitbox and frame data in a vacuum, rather than any sort of strategy. ._.

As always, thanks to anyone who can navigate my wallposts-- I comprehend brevity even less than Corrin's playstyle.
 

Nah

Smash Champion
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
2,111
Location
NJ, USA
The basic idea with Corrin is to wall out approaches and eventually force the opponent into the air, onstage or off, where you can make use of their biggest strengths, ledgeguarding and juggling/trapping landings. The character is also very footsies/spacing based, so you'll want to make sure that fundamental is sharp. When they come to you you can use stuff like Dtilt, Ftilt, Nair, and Fair to keep them out, and these things are also what sets up Corrin's combos and strings, which are very vertically oriented. A few examples are like Dtilt>Utilt>Uair, Ftilt>Fair/Nair, falling Nair/Fair>rising Fair/Nair.

While Corrin's grabs have no real follow-ups, they still do exactly what the character needs. A Corrin that does not grab loses to shield; grabbing the opponent also makes them not think shield is an easy answer to Corrin, giving you the chance to make use of the rest of their moveset. In addition to that, it also gets them up in the air or offstage, right where you want them.

From there Nair and Uair are your main aerial juggling tools. Nair has a lot of active frames, making it good for catching airdodges, while Uair's hitbox is ****ing huge. On the ground, Utilt makes for a good anti-air, and you can catch some landings with Fsmash because of it's long range.

For edgeguarding, you mainly want to stay onstage and deal with the opponent's get-up options. Corrin covers those a lot better than they do going offstage to fight them. This is in part because the launch angles on many of their moves are poor for gimping or killing, and in part because of the nature of their recovery. They have a number of good ledgeguarding options like Nair, Fsmash charge and Fsmash itself, Dragon Lunge, etc, most of which you can use on reaction.

Dragon Lunge/Instant Pin's primary use is as a (whiff) punish tool, though it has uses for ledgeguarding and recovery mixups. Anything else is likely to get you punished.

Counter Surge is not to be neglected either, but like all counters you can't just carelessly throw it out.

anyway I have rambled on and for all I know this may not be right lol
 

One Tilt

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 28, 2014
Messages
155
I will respond when I get home.
Appreciate the advance notice letting me know that I'm not making one of those threads that'll awkwardly sit without reply for a week or so. ^^

The basic idea with Corrin is to wall out approaches and eventually force the opponent into the air, onstage or off, where you can make use of their biggest strengths, ledgeguarding and juggling/trapping landings. The character is also very footsies/spacing based, so you'll want to make sure that fundamental is sharp. When they come to you you can use stuff like Dtilt, Ftilt, Nair, and Fair to keep them out, and these things are also what sets up Corrin's combos and strings, which are very vertically oriented. A few examples are like Dtilt>Utilt>Uair, Ftilt>Fair/Nair, falling Nair/Fair>rising Fair/Nair.

While Corrin's grabs have no real follow-ups, they still do exactly what the character needs. A Corrin that does not grab loses to shield; grabbing the opponent also makes them not think shield is an easy answer to Corrin, giving you the chance to make use of the rest of their moveset. In addition to that, it also gets them up in the air or offstage, right where you want them.

From there Nair and Uair are your main aerial juggling tools. Nair has a lot of active frames, making it good for catching airdodges, while Uair's hitbox is ****ing huge. On the ground, Utilt makes for a good anti-air, and you can catch some landings with Fsmash because of it's long range.

For edgeguarding, you mainly want to stay onstage and deal with the opponent's get-up options. Corrin covers those a lot better than they do going offstage to fight them. This is in part because the launch angles on many of their moves are poor for gimping or killing, and in part because of the nature of their recovery. They have a number of good ledgeguarding options like Nair, Fsmash charge and Fsmash itself, Dragon Lunge, etc, most of which you can use on reaction.

Dragon Lunge/Instant Pin's primary use is as a (whiff) punish tool, though it has uses for ledgeguarding and recovery mixups. Anything else is likely to get you punished.

Counter Surge is not to be neglected either, but like all counters you can't just carelessly throw it out.

anyway I have rambled on and for all I know this may not be right lol
That's actually exactly the sort of information I'm looking for-- I normally don't pick up nearly as much from experience as I do observation, so someone else being able to share theirs helps immensely.

To start with, it helps immensely to know that Fair is mainly used for combos rather than juggling-- figuring out the usage of each aerial has definitely been a major issue, as I would find myself either trying Fair in juggles and just getting airdodges, or ignoring it for entire matches in favor of Nairs. Knowing that Uair's got a great hitbox (along with knowing in advance that it can frame trap some Nairs) gives me an actual game plan for juggling-- and knowing that Utilt works nicely as an anti-air rather than just a combo tool will certainly shore up my juggle tactics quite nicely as well!


Definitely good to know that Dragon Lunge is to be treated as, for all intents and purposes, a smash attack of sorts (used just for punishing/reads). I was a Marth main in melee, but I've always used counters sparingly-- mostly just to punish extreme predictability like someone landing with a Dair. I normally figure that, if it can't KO, shield will probably net me a follow-up for similar damage at less risk... though, Corrin having the best counter bar Witch Time does feel much more rewarding than I'm used to.

I don't mind that Corrin's grabs have no follow-ups, and having a throw that threatens KO at higher %s certainly makes up for that, but normally even characters with no direct follow-up still give me a sense of 'I should do <x> now' after throwing... charging a projectile, dashing back to some particular range, et cetera. I think DL and iffy air speed are really screwing my out of finding where my sweetspot is supposed to be, in terms of positioning? That, combined with my poor knowledge of Corrin's neutral, is now looking like my biggest hurdle.

Hm... with the footsies you mention, what's my 'target range'? And what'm I fishing for, beyond general bait/punish play with fsmash's range or shield->dtilt->combo? I'm positive that Dragon Shot is a solid move, but I can't get a feel for when it's a good choice. Is there any trick to follow-ups, by the by? I've heard of fair strings, smashes, dragon lance, and so on, but I mostly just get the chance for one fair or a dash attack. I'm noticing that the neutral game tends to be where I'm struggling the most-- I don't really have a clear plan as I might with, say, Marth (walk-up Fairs anytime someone jumps or dashes, shield->jab/grab). But I'm starting to think that's a stylistic struggle.

Understanding dragon lance and shot will help me a lot with evading 'Captain Falcon syndrome', of either using specials all but exclusively or ignoring them entirely. Understanding the 'when' of moves, along with getting some sense of neutral, seem like my biggest hurdles now. And possibly learning new techs for footsies, if Corrin's especially reliant on some ATs that I've been skimping on.

Thank you for the detailed feedback-- definitely gives me a nice starting point where I was otherwise all-autopilot all the time. >//<

Edit: Actually, treating things kind've like Marth has been helping, with my juggles being drastically improved by utilizing more uairs/utilts. Can't space ftilt as well, of course, but sticking to the ground to focus on spacing things out in a defensive manner helps me with getting -to- the juggling and punishes a lot better. Still feels like I'm missing things, but definitely doing better than I was without a plan, thus far. ^^
 
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One Tilt

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 28, 2014
Messages
155
Excuse the double-post, but I've made a bit of a breakthrough and it'd be a bit odd to include in the last post (considering its length and my rambling).

I finally understand what to do at most every stage of the game, or at least I have ideas now-- dash into partial charge dragon shots helps to power through projectiles (i.e. Link), whilst gaining bit by bit. Following up dragon shots with grabs (or more dragon shots to stun-walk them off the stage) has proven very nice, and the edgeguarding is working amazingly well with dragon shot -> hop off dragon lance to punish higher recoveries and dair spikes plus Fsmash dash pivots to punish ledge options.

Dragon shot really opens up neutral, AND gives me a follow-up to throws (not a guarantee, of course, but it keeps up pressure and lets me chase a bit with dash canceled B). Short hop dragon lance is an incredible tool for tipper punishing dragon shot paralysis, whilst IP is proving nice for quickly following up on a close foe who's missed a tech (or is paralyzed). Dtilt -> Uair also seems to KO at some %s, Dsmash is a great roll punish, Uair works to mix up Utilts by charging to hit airdodge landings... and Uptilt really is incredibly safe as an anti-air, what with airdodge landings leading to jabs, grabs, and tilts quite easily.

Dash->Dragon Shot has definitely opened up my game, as has throw->dragon shot-- all I really had was B reversing and wavebouncing techs from Mario/Diddy play, which Corrin's slower B doesn't get to use as freely. Corrin's now feeling intuitive like Diddy and Mario, so I'm really hyped to finally be doing solid with a swordie again. :3

Edit: Now I just need to find a way to consistently shut down Corrin mirrors who only know how to use aerials and specials. I tell ya, few games know how to punish you for trying to learn quite like Smash 4... Brawl aside, at least. It's irksome when I can character switch to Little Mac and 2 stock your average spammer with only Ftilt, Jab, and Dsmash on their inevitable rollspam, yet they are a sincere wall for any character I try to put thought into. Well, whatever-- at least there's always Villager to let me out-spam them with slingshots. I just need to find Corrin's 'spam strategy', given that's the closest 'For Glory' has to a metagame, lol... As for real practice, I'll be better off with bots 'till I iron things out.

Edit 2: Took some doing, but I'm starting to find success in mirrors through gratuitous use of shielding and grabs-- especially given how much counter-spam I'm seeing. My juggling suffers (thanks to spammed drop Dairs), but my edgeguarding helps me keep advantage for quite some time (not sure they even know they can stand up from ledge into shield, as many rolls as I see from ledge...). Dragon shot seems best delt with via dashing powershields into grabs, but I don't really have an answer to dragon lunge-- I can net some nice combos and KOs with mine, but using it thoughtfully doesn't really help me when others seem to treat it practically like a jab... it feels quite difficult to punish via shielding, but instant pin doesn't feel like I could counter it in a timely manner... perhaps shield the pin, counter the kick? Idk, midrange attacks seem to be the big weakpoint I've got now (anything beyond tilt range, but too close to safely Fsmash, mainly). Perhaps I'll see about labbing some Bair RARs versus dragon lunge/shot spam to see what hitboxes win out-- Bair might help to punish pinspam through staying a bit above its hitboxes with some good spacing...
 
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Kodystri

the PK Spamming Lucas Main
Joined
Jul 24, 2014
Messages
412
NNID
Kodystri
I am so sorry! I was a bit busy this weekend but now I will explain

I will not repeat what the other guy said but will say some things

1. Make sure you do abuse Dragon Lunge. It is one of her best moves for a reason. Punish anything Diddy does. You can punish SH Fair, SH Bair or anything if you time i correctly. Do not do it blindly because Diddy is one of the few characters that can always punish it. If you see someone misplace something, just try to Dragon Lunge it!

2, Corrin has a lot of landing options going through Nair, Bair, Dragon Lunge, Counter, Dragon Fang Shot and Dair. Make sure you don't get too predictable with either or. If you see someone shielding as you are landing, go for Dragon Lunge or Bair. If you see someone trying to anti-air you, go for the Counter, Nair, or Dair. If you see someone trying to shield grab you, go for the Dair, DFS or even Up B as it beats grabs(don't be predictable however!)

3. Remember Corrin has combos. Nair combos into Fair, Bair, or Uair, Fair does as well besides Bair.

4. You shouldn't go offstage as Corrin as Corrin excels better at ledge coverage. The only time I go offstage as Corrin is if I know i can edgeguard them with Bair or DFS. Corrin's ledge coverage is effective and deadly. DFS does a great job covering all options as well as Dragon Lunge and Forward Smash covers all but drop down attack. Nair is also good at consistently getting someone who is normal get up happy.

5. Uair and Nair are great at catching airdodges. Use them. Uair can frame trap into a nair, so use that!


With all of this said, there is no exact game plan with Corrin. Most plays defensive. I am moreso an aggressive Corrin unless I am forced to play defensive. I am also very read based as well. Make sure you fit Corrin to your style. I will use FSmash to catch landings, I will use Dragon Lunge to pressure people. If you are good at being patient and then punish whenever they make a mistake, feel free to do that. But if you are the type of person that makes reads and frame traps people, that also works.
 

Jtails

Smash Lord
Joined
May 31, 2008
Messages
1,167
Hey there, I actually just made a guide video for Corrin with an accompanying for glory video. You're probably well past this, but still offering some insight. It's on my youtube channel www.youtube.com/c/jtails
 
D

Deleted member 189823

Guest
I saw this thing ages ago, but I either lacked the right words, or the fact that my keyboard was half-broken.

You basically want to play Corrin as if you were Marth or Lucina. People do this very much, but Corrin is a lot more flexible in using aerials. Granted, it does take some skill and knowing how to space things well. You'd be surprised how punishable they can be on shield (such as poorly-spaced aerials). B-air's safe 90%, assuming they aren't PS'ing. F-air and N-air, go for fully-spaced, crossups or if you absolutely know you'll beat someone out, thanks to our disjoints. Our disjoints are pretty silly, to the point we can beat someone like Diddy head-on, assuming we bait it out (it's hard, but very much possible). And from these aerials, you get the frametraps. When you have someone above you and you U-air. If they airdodge through it, you can try FF'ing a N-air even another U-air. Hell, you can even go for this.

That thing I just clarified is going to be most of your neutral. Contrary to popular belief, constantly aiming to Pin on people's shield isn't effective against smarter players. However, I'm not against Pining on sure punishes (like a smash on shield or when catching a landing). Do the thing I told yeah, and try to not overuse Pin as to not struggle with the kill.
 
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