Have Sakurai's Thoughts on the Competitive Community Changed?!




Soma, the lead translator at Source Gaming and I recently published a 45 minute discussion on Sakurai's changing opinion of the competitive community. We've referenced translations that span all five entries into the series to see how Sakurai's stance has evolved.

The music used in this video was kindly provided by Lucas Guimaraes. Check out his tracks on BandCamp. Follow him on Twitter to stay up to date with his musical career!



In other news, today marks the 2nd year anniversary of the release of Smash for 3DS in Japan. If you want to see where it all began, check out the translation of the Proposal Slides.

Make sure to check out the latest translation of Sakurai’s column on Smashboards, and follow Source Gaming on Twitter for more translations and information. What do you think of Sakurai's stance? Let us know in the comments below.
 
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PushDustin

Comments

#2
I'd like to think my comment on the last article inspired this one :D
Thanks, guys! It's appreciated, as always.
 
#5
A lot of good discussion about this and how he has changed overtime with his own mindset and what he felt like needed to be changed over the course of each game.

It is interesting how it changed from Melee to Brawl to Smash 4.

He didn't like the direction Melee went with it's hyper technical push and wanted to bring it back, but in doing so he also introduced things people hated. Smash 4 he went for a middle ground to try and make it feel and play faster. That and how balance changed a lot between games.

Only issue I see is how he handles some characters to be left in the, they just won't work in a 1v1 setting outside of just every mode with some balance. You can make them work, it just needs more fine tuning with their movesets to also make them more fun to play.
 
#9
The title accurately reflects the contents of the video. It's not clickbait.
There are two deffinitions of clickbait: Clickbait that lies about the content (what you are referring to) and clickbait that is presented with a certain sentence structure (posing a question that is definitively answered in the article and adding an exclamation point, for example, as opposed phrasing it as a concrete statement).
 
#11
I wonder how much Sakurai would shake his head if he had to watch a high level Fox Main from Melee *because of Wave Dashing, L-Caneling and the like* lol.
 
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#12
im not gonna watch this whole thing, can some just answer 'yes' or 'no'
You have two options:
Go to the link in the description of the video.
Watch the video in 1.5x speed.

Short answer is yes it's changed. But you are doing yourself a disservice if you don't take the time and learn why.

There are two deffinitions of clickbait: Clickbait that lies about the content (what you are referring to) and clickbait that is presented with a certain sentence structure (posing a question that is definitively answered in the article and adding an exclamation point, for example, as opposed phrasing it as a concrete statement).
I have more in depth thoughts here.

Basically -- if creators don't write catchy titles you guys don't click on it. "Clickbait" is so widely used because it works. For me, I only think it's clickbait if it's deceptive. We spend 45 minutes discussing Sakurai's changing thoughts on the competitive community. The title is justified IMO.
 
#13
You have two options:
Go to the link in the description of the video.
Watch the video in 1.5x speed.

Short answer is yes it's changed. But you are doing yourself a disservice if you don't take the time and learn why.



I have more in depth thoughts here.

Basically -- if creators don't write catchy titles you guys don't click on it. "Clickbait" is so widely used because it works. For me, I only think it's clickbait if it's deceptive. We spend 45 minutes discussing Sakurai's changing thoughts on the competitive community. The title is justified IMO.
I know, and I agree, this title is not clickbait in my eyes. I was just explaining what some people look at as clickbait in case you didn't know.
 
#14
A lot of good discussion about this and how he has changed overtime with his own mindset and what he felt like needed to be changed over the course of each game.

It is interesting how it changed from Melee to Brawl to Smash 4.

He didn't like the direction Melee went with it's hyper technical push and wanted to bring it back, but in doing so he also introduced things people hated. Smash 4 he went for a middle ground to try and make it feel and play faster. That and how balance changed a lot between games.

Only issue I see is how he handles some characters to be left in the, they just won't work in a 1v1 setting outside of just every mode with some balance. You can make them work, it just needs more fine tuning with their movesets to also make them more fun to play.
As someone who actually played all three games, Sm4sh doesn't really deviate from Brawl's speed. I'd actually argue that some things allow Brawl to be faster. People will cite reduced landing lag and higher air/fall speed, but there is more to that in making a speedy game.
 
#15
As someone who actually played all three games, Sm4sh doesn't really deviate from Brawl's speed. I'd actually argue that some things allow Brawl to be faster. People will cite reduced landing lag and higher air/fall speed, but there is more to that in making a speedy game.
I've played all 3 and whole-heartedly agree. In fact, the reduction in punish game (more lag on aerials, removal of chain grabs, and less combo ability for characters such as fox, not to forget changes in ledge mechanics make recovery significantly safer) has actually made sm4sh, arguably, more defensive than brawl.

I honestly dislike that gaming companies nowadays want to punish players that enjoy "getting good" at their games by having unskilled players have a big chance at winning, even if they don't put in nearly as much work. *sigh* business wise, I guess it's to appeal to a larger casual audience, I suppose...
 
#16
As someone who actually played all three games, Sm4sh doesn't really deviate from Brawl's speed. I'd actually argue that some things allow Brawl to be faster. People will cite reduced landing lag and higher air/fall speed, but there is more to that in making a speedy game.
What in particular do you think makes it faster or what points make it so?

Because based on some of the stuff you even said here and other factors I really don't see it.
 
#17
I've played all 3 and whole-heartedly agree. In fact, the reduction in punish game (more lag on aerials, removal of chain grabs, and less combo ability for characters such as fox, not to forget changes in ledge mechanics make recovery significantly safer) has actually made sm4sh, arguably, more defensive than brawl.
As someone who actually played all three games, Sm4sh doesn't really deviate from Brawl's speed. I'd actually argue that some things allow Brawl to be faster. People will cite reduced landing lag and higher air/fall speed, but there is more to that in making a speedy game.
Brawl's Air Game is faster to me, and characters have "Aerial Auto Canceling" as I call it, making recovery on landing from an attack much faster *But still not L-Canceling*
I have played all of the games, which include the Nintendo 64 but I do not intend for that to be used as authority...

The removal of Edge Hogging also hurts SSB4 in my opinion, as it makes recovering very safe and the like, and well as patching Aerial Auto Canceling for Characters like Captain Falcon and various other things. But worry not, I am not tring to put down the peoplewho all know and love SSB4 :).

These are just my opinions, and do not claim them to be facts, just saying...
 
#18
Brawl's Air Game is faster to me, and characters have "Aerial Auto Canceling" as I call it, making recovery on landing from an attack much faster *But still not L-Canceling*
I have played all of the games, which include the Nintendo 64 but I do not intend for that to be used as authority...

The removal of Edge Hogging also hurts SSB4 in my opinion, as it makes recovering very safe and the like, and well as patching Aerial Auto Canceling for Characters like Captain Falcon and various other things. But worry not, I am not tring to put down the peoplewho all know and love SSB4 :).

These are just my opinions, and do not claim them to be facts, just saying...
You aren't wrong about that airspeed part, depending on the character a lot of characters are actually faster in Airspeed compared to their Smash 4 counterparts.

What they don't have is faster fallspeed, fastfall speed and running speed, which is almost universally faster in Smash 4.

Auto cancelling is in both games on a lot of moves.

Trumping creates a different dynamic that was also done to stop certain things, planking mostly along with most people who buy the game not liking edge-hogging in general.

It's fine if it is not your cup of tea, but this is mostly to inform for the most part.
 
#19
Auto cancelling is in both games on a lot of moves.
I am aware of this, do you think I do not know that? I made a mistake when I posted. I am also aware of the other proporties of SSB4, I played for a good long time, but I quit a while ago because I personally do not like the game but can still play if the situation demands it. I am in no need of the information, but what you say is true, I have no intensions of putting you down or anything like that; It is all good.
 
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#20
Was unable to listen to this for more than 5 minutes. I'd kindly recommend toning down the vocal fry and keeping Soma from using the word "like" every 5 seconds. I await the next vid.
 
#21
i think sakurai got butthurt because ppl basically took his game ,melee, and turned it into their own game, and play it at a lvl he didn't think was possible. pretty much hes like a control freak now, like , u can only cancel ariels if I allow it.
 
#22
i think sakurai got butthurt because ppl basically took his game ,melee, and turned it into their own game, and play it at a lvl he didn't think was possible. pretty much hes like a control freak now, like , u can only cancel ariels if I allow it.
 
#24
The only game I can feasibly see bringing this split fanbase together is something based extensively on the first game with added mechanics from the later games (something I want to strive for if I ever get around to making a Smash game). This fanbase is too fractured for a Melee-esque or Brawl-esque game to bring it together. Face it; Melee was too technical for the overall playerbase and Sakurai still holds that stance, yet Brawl was not the direction he truly wanted to go in either. Sm4sh is still exstensively rooted in Brawl's playstyle despite being made more technical (being made with the same engine and all), but the way it's handled is a sign that Sakurai wants to return to what he envisioned in the first game. But all will not truly be well with this fanbase until the overall "competitive" community sees that Melee too was a mistake for Sakurai in what he was going for, even if he never outright said it and no how much they may like it for it's vast and powerful tech.
 
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#25
I've played all 3 and whole-heartedly agree. In fact, the reduction in punish game (more lag on aerials, removal of chain grabs, and less combo ability for characters such as fox, not to forget changes in ledge mechanics make recovery significantly safer) has actually made sm4sh, arguably, more defensive than brawl.

I honestly dislike that gaming companies nowadays want to punish players that enjoy "getting good" at their games by having unskilled players have a big chance at winning, even if they don't put in nearly as much work. *sigh* business wise, I guess it's to appeal to a larger casual audience, I suppose...
I dunno man...It took a while before someone could stop Zero's win streak. He should have lost it sooner if the game benefitted unskilled players more than skilled ones.
 
#26
I dunno man...It took a while before someone could stop Zero's win streak. He should have lost it sooner if the game benefitted unskilled players more than skilled ones.
Zero lost to a palutena simply due to a slight element of surprise (not to discredit the palutena player. Played amazingly). Upsets happen far more often in sm4sh than in melee/pm because of reduced skill ceiling bringing the overall level of play closer together.

I'll ask this: if a player is willing to put in the dedication to practice 2-3 hours a day, should they have a significant advantage to someone who plays 2-3 hours a week? This applies to anything in life. I shouldn't be punished for my efforts, or feel like it isn't rewarding.
 
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