Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows

[leviathan_]

I'm confused about why everyone is constantly saying he's a weak wizard. I haven't read the books in a while, but from what I remember, he was bad at school, yet was good at everything practical. I mean, he performed an amazing patronus charm at age 13, fought voldemort, fought off death eaters twice, almost killed Malfoy, can speak parsletongue, resisted two imperius curses, and has done all that other magic stuff.

Let's not forget that he received 7 out of 9 O.W.L.s, he even scratched an 'E' (exceeds exceptations) on Potions, with Snape as a teacher, his least favorite class. This means he STILL qualifies to become an Auror, which is Harry's ambition. There's little wonder as to why Harry's Patronus is far stronger (the strongest?) of most accomplished wizards - he can love, including but not limited to his parents, moments, and friends. BTW, Harry's use of some Dark Arts doesn't really count towards all this.. it's not his forte, and he detests it (you have to admit though, Harry is a hypocrite for having used the Dark Magic he fights against).

 

[Crimson King]

Harry is weak compared to Dumbledore, Snape, Voldemort, etc.

He has great trouble doing any nonvocal magic, trouble doing any magic without a wand, he's quite insensitive to magic (this was shown best in HBP), and he has no mastery of the Dark Arts, which presumably he'd need to kill Voldemort.

 

[Sargent_Peach]

Harry really can't do any nonverbal magic. Unless there is something really powerful about this "love" thing that will just demolish Voldermort, Harry needs to step it up.

Yeah, yeah he got 7 out of 9 owls and did the best in DADA. But he hasn't taken his Newts, and is still an amateur when it comes to apparating. He is just to young, when compared to Voldermort, actually you don't have to compare him to Voldermort, you can compare him to Snape or Lestrange. He is not powerful enough to defeat even the death eaters.

I just want Harry to really prove that he is a truly powerful wizard in this one. None of that luck/help crap. You know what I'm saying? I want him to freakin kick some but and kill some mofos. Really I want him or Neville to kill Lestrange.

P.S. I'm pretty sure that McGonagall will be the Headmistress. Is said she was like the back up or something under Dumbledore in the HBP.

 

[Eor]

Oh, I thought you just meant in general. Yes, Voldemort or even Snape would dominate him.

My guess on why is won't just be slaughtered is that it might be a "hidden" Deus Ex Machina (The eyes mean that he can perform a "Heroic" branch of magic due to his mother's sacrifice), that he has a lot of help, or Harry finally learns to control his emotions, letting him finally concentrate on a one vs one match. To my knowledge (and as I haven't read the books in a while, i admit I may be completley wrong about this), Harry has never had a serious 1v1 fight with anyone where he was not emotionally disturbed, minus his 1v1 fight with Voldemort (even then disturbed by Cedric) where that wand-connection saved him.

 

[Mr.GAW]

I truly think Aberforth or Snape will be his "teacher" this year.

Also, like people said, Harry just needs to control his emotions, otherwise he is a fully capable wizard. It's just a matter of him KNOWING the content, and how to perform it, not actually doing it. (And his emotions).

EDIT: Six days, 100 pgs. left in GoF. Think I can make it?

 

[leviathan_]

Oh, come on Mr. GAW, at that rate you're gonna have to speed read because there are more than 800 pages in the next book, and more than 600 after that...

Harry already has an apparent advantage against Voldemort from utterly destroying him, but in a duel situation Harry also must have his wand at the ready. Someone brought it up in the posts above - because Voldemort's and Harry's wands are "brothers" (meaning they have the same wand core with Fawke's feathers), the wands will refuse to perform against each other properly. If this happens again, all that will occur is the regurgitating of the identity of what spell either Harry or Voldemort used (more likely Voldemort though, Harry won that mysterious golden bead fight in GoF). Some other non-wand fight will have to be looked into, I believe. For certain, I think Gryfinddor's sword will come into play. I see Fawkes as well... he definitely likes Harry, maybe Fawkes will super-charge Harry's wand or something : / Maybe they'll have to engage in a Muggle fight XD


Hmm... regarding whos gonna be Harry's mentor, I vaguely recall McGonagal saying that she will teach Harry as hard as she could when Umbridge was observing their Career Advice meeting.. but I dunno whether we should take McGonagal seriously there since she was having a little back-and-forth ("row" in British ) with Umbridge. This was all about Harry wanting to become an Auror, BTW.

 

[Mr.GAW]

Alright, finished GoF, I just have to read like 275 pages a day. That's doable, right?

Anyways, I have a few more questions.

1). When Barty Crouch Jr. is giving his explanation of what happened that year, he said his mother switched with him in Azkaban since he was dying. Well, she had to drink Polyjuice potion for the remainder of the time she was in there. Now, that could be as short as a day or two, depending on how close she was to death, but she has to drink a flask worth of Polyjuice Potion 24 times at least, which would be enough potion to fill a cauldron. She would also need enough hair from Jr. I don't know, it seems like Jo messed up a little there, IMO.

2). On page 648 of GoF, Voldemort tells his DE's:

"And then I ask myself, but how could they have believed I would not rise again? They , who knoew the steps I took, long ago, to guard myself against mortal death? They, who had seen proofs of the immensity of my power in the times when I was mightier than any wizard living?"

Does this mean that the DE's knew about Voldy's horcruxes? If so, why would Snape be witholding this from Dumbledore? Or did he withold it? Perhaps this was the crucial information Snape passed to Dumbledore that led Snape to be trusted. But if so, why would Dumbledore have only found a horcrux at the start of the 6th book? Why hadn't he began searching long ago? Just something to think about.

I thought I had a third question, but I forget. Oh well.

 

[Crimson King]

I thought for the Crouch part, that his mother was so sick that she just took enough to slip past the guards then died in the cell because the dementors are blind. Crouch said something like the Dementors just senses "One healthy person, one sick person" enter and the same leave because Crouch Jr. was so weak from the dementors he appeared sick. On a side note, I hated how they did that in the movie. The showed him in the house with Voldemort, Wormtail, and Nagini and they showed him fire off the Dark Mark. That really killed the mystery for it.

I think we are worrying about nothing really as for Harry being weak. The books have often been compared to Star Wars (there are only three Star Wars movies) and Harry basically mirrors Luke Skywalker. Luke looked pitful in Empire, but by Jedi he was a monster at the force. The first few chapters could be Harry training up and getting hardcore at magic for the final fight. Who knows, but I think it'll end pretty well.

 

[leviathan_]

Or did he withold it? Perhaps this was the crucial information Snape passed to Dumbledore that led Snape to be trusted.

This is wrong... because Dumbledore never even suspected Voldemort of using Horcruxes until Harry brought the Diary to him in the second year.

And I also remember someone in the forums saying the Death Eaters know about the Horcruxes. Total bologna. The only Death Eater who knew about the existence of Voldemort's Horcrux(es) was R.A.B. - who was probably Regulus Black, and Kreacher. Voldemort would NEVER pass that kind of information onto the Death Eaters... that's pretty much the framework of his immortality...

 

[Mr.GAW]

Well then explain the quote I posted. What other steps toward immortality did he make?

EDIT: I too, don't think Voldy would be that stupid, but I am curious about the quote then.

 

[leviathan_]

That's the only step he ever made: make Horcruxes. The Sorcerer's Stone is destroyed. I'm pretty sure Voldemort told the Death Eaters something other than Horcruxes regarding that quote. ..Or maybe he did tell them, but the Death Eaters don't understand what Horcruxes do, because Voldemort is not stupid enough to tell them. You have to admit though, Voldemort does have a thrist to express himself, to show off. He might have ranted about Horcruxes in his arrogance. If Voldemort told them their properties, he might be screwing himself.

 

[bluezaft]

In the sixth book Dumbledore says that says that Voldemort kept the horcruxes a secret from all the Death Eaters. That's why Lucius wasn't so protective of the diary--he didn't know what it was.

 

[Sargent_Peach]

I don't think he did, because Lucias Malfoy didn't know that the diary was a horcrux. I don't think that Voldermort told them about it. I'm not sure about the quote though? Makes it a little confusing. Maybe they just knew that he was taking steps with the dark arts to try and make himself immortal.

 

[smashman90]

Well didn't Voldemort/Quarill(Sp.) drank some unicorn blood in Sorcerer's stone to keep him immortal(even though if I remember correctly, he had to keep drinking the blood or else he wouldn't be immortal).

 

[Mr.GAW]

^^^ But he said "the steps I took long ago."

 

[leviathan_]

...Voldemort is definitely referring to his Horcruxes. Further in that part, in whuch you brought up that quote Mr. GAW, was another quote from Voldemort that Dumbledore pointed out "..I..who have gone further than anybody on the path to immortality", or something of the sort. Notice how Voldemort does not mention the word "Horcrux" or "Horcruxes" in any part of the speech. Like I said, he's definitely ALLUDING to the Horcruxes, he's simply not telling the Death Eaters directly what the heck a Horcrux even is. Horcruxes are obscure, relatively unknown things in the Wizarding World... And if he told ANYBODY, or someone suspected or deduced that he has Horcruxes, then LV is in big trouble.

..he is in trouble

 

[Mr.GAW]

Well, if he IS talking about Horcruxes, as you claim and I believe, he is saying that his DE's know about them. It says they know the steps he has taken. If it had said "know how intent I am on immortality", or something, it would be different.

But he says the death eaters KNOW THE STEPS HE HAS TAKEN.

If people don't think it is Horcruxes, what steps is he talking about?

And if you do think it is Horcruxes, this proves Snape is not working for the Order, as I said before.
____________________________________________________________________

I did a lot more reading today after finishing GoF, and I'm almost 200 pages into OotP.

I don't have so many questions as I do comments and things to discuss.

1. This is page 112: The first time Regulus is mentioned. As he is believed by so many to be R.A.B., I figured it's not a bad thing to quote.

"He was younger than me," said Sirius, "and a much better son, as I was constantly reminded."
"But he died," said Harry.
"Yeah," said Sirius. "Stupid idiot... he joined the Death Eaters."
"You're kidding!"
"Come on, Harry, haven't you seen enough of this house to tell what kind of wizards my family were?" said Sirius testily.
"Were, -were your parents Death Eater as well?"

... same page, skipping irrelevence.

"But I bet my parents thought Regulus was a right little hero for joining up at first."
"Was he killed by an Auror?" Harry asked tentatively.
"Oh no," said Sirius. "No, he was murdered by Voldemort. Or on Voldemort's orders, more likely, I doubt Regulus was ever important enough to be killed by Voldemort in person. From what I found out after he died, he got in so far, than panicked about what he was being asked to do and tried to back out. Well, you don't just hand in your resignation to Voldemort. It's a lifetime of service or death."

I actually don't have much to say on the matter, but feel free to discuss it. (I was a little bored and sick of reading.)

2. The locket in Grimmauld Place.

also a heavy locket that none of them could open,

That's all it says on the matter. I know you guys probably already knew about this, just giving you page number and option to discuss.

3. Tonks telling Lupin about Scrimgeour:

Lupin glanced at Harry, then said to Tonks, "What were yo usaying about Scrimgeour?"
"Oh...yeah...well, we need to be a bit more careful, he's been asking Kingsley and me funny questions...."

We all know Scrimgeour is minister in HBP. If he didn't believe Harry and Voldemort in OotP, well... it's probably not the best person to be fighting Voldemort.

4. Intresting tidbit you probably already knew...

On page 125, Mr. Weasley is dialing the numbers to access the ministry. (In the red phone booth with Harry)

"Let's see...six..." he dialed the number, "two...four...and another four... and another two...

It spells MAGIC if you were texting it.

More thoughts later.

 

[leviathan_]

1. I'm positive on R.A.B. being Regulus Black.. he was a Death Eater, and probably killed on Voldemort's orders because he (as I see it) discovered the existence, and accquired one of the Horcruxes.

2. The heavy locket, as I also see it, is the very Horcrux he and Kreacher stole from the Cave. The only evidence to connect the Grimmauld Place Horcrux with the Cave Horcrux (the locket), is that they are both described as "heavy." Plus, none of them (Sirius, Ron, Hermione, and Harry, I believe) could open it. That's suspicious indeed... It's probably in Mundungus Fletcher's possession, after stealing so many Black artifacts from there.. but currently he's in Azkaban.

3. As to why pre-minister Scrimgeour was asking funny questions, I have little idea.. He certainly wouldn't know that Dumbledore revived the Order... so.. maybe he was under the Imperius Curse, placed on him by a Death Eater? j/k, as farfetched as it sounds...

The Ministry can't afford to fall under Dark hands now... not after they finally decided acknowledge LV is back.. If they did, with a brainwashed minister, OtTP is all alone... without Dumbledore.

4. Lol at that red telephone booth ...

P.S. Anyone catch that "tarnished tiara" sitting in the Room of Requirements? People suspect that, like the heavy locket found in Grimmauld Place, it's a Horcrux. Harry placed the tiara on top of Snape's HBP book, to remember its location


..and this is indeed suspicious. Hiding a "bloody axe" or a "huge piece of furniture" I can understand. But why a TIARA.. Supporters of this Tiara theory suspect that Tom Riddle put it in the Room of Requirements just before going to see Dumbledore for the DADA position. It would make sense, because the Headmaster's Office and the Room of Requirements, are on the same 7th floor...which brings us to the theory of Horcruxes

Here are the Horcruxes, as I see them:

1. Slytherin's Ring (done)
2. Riddle's Diary (done)
3. Slytherin's Locket (Mundungus)
4. Hufflepuff's Cup (unknown location..)
5. Ravenclaw's Tiara (Room of Requirement)
6. Nagini (around LV, or in the Riddle House)
7. Harry Potter (BOING!)

..and of course, LV's soul is the final straw.

 

[Crimson King]

Harry cannot be the final horcrux. I read that opinion online once and while reading HBP (I read the theory before I knew what a horcrux was) and it has a huge flaw in it.

1. To make a Horcrux there must be a murder and the spell, which would be Lily's. The problem is right after Voldemort kills Lily he curses Harry which rebounds. Why would he waste a piece of his soul to kill Harry Potter. No doubt the reason he made so many was to keep his immortality lasting as long as possible and hiding the horcruxes in every day objects to make them even harder to notice. He wanted his horcruxes to maintain even if people found them. Why kill Harry right away.

2. Assuming Harry was the horcrux he had to have planned this right when he heard the prophecy which was made 10 years after his reign of terror began. Why would he save his prized 7th horcrux for 10 years, when he had no clue of anyone planning to undo him.

3. You listed 8 pieces of his soul, not 7. He SPLIT his soul seven ways, meaning 6 horcruxes. Dumbledore was sure Nagini was one because of his relationship with snakes, leaving 3 more. The Hufflepuff cup and Slytherin's Locket were definitely two more. Leaving one more in doubt, which means to make Harry a horcrux he'd have to not make one mocking Gryffindor, which I don't see.

4. The prophecy says if one lives the other can't survive. Voldemort never heard this part, which means he had no reason to make Harry a Horcrux if he planned to kill him, because if he makes Harry the final one, Harry has to die BEFORE Voldemort can be killed. I can't see Rowling having her main character die before his arch-nemesis.

It's a cool idea, but it really puts Rowling into a corner.

 

[Mr.GAW]

Quick OotP question:

Hedwig is able to deliver and return messages to Grimmauld Place, so do non-wizards not apply to the Fidelus charm? This could be the downfall of headquarters, if it is the case.

 

[Mr.GAW]

Edit button isn't working.

This is supposedly the first paragraph of DH. I believe it, it's supposed to be from an interview that J.K. already recorded but hasn't aired. The camera was supposedly on the first page long enough to decipher what it said, or something like that.

SPOILERS
-->

Spoiler

'Chapter One. The Dark Lord Ascending. The two men appeared out of nowhere, a few yards apart in the narrow, moonlit lane. For a second they stood quite still, wands pointing at each other's chests: then, recognising each other, they stowed their wands beneath their cloaks and set off, side by side, in the same direction.

"News?", asked the taller of the two.

"The best," replied Snape.

<--

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2126717,00.html

This isn't necesarrily true, but it seems like Jo's writing to me.

Here's what mugglenet has to say about it:

With extreme caution for lack of authenticity, we bring you this article from The Guardian's online website. It holds, what they say, is the opening to Deathly Hallows dated October 23rd, 2006.

According to their site, this small portion can be seen in video from the upcoming JK Rowling documentary we told you about a few days ago.

What do you guys think?

 

[bluezaft]

Quick OotP question:

Hedwig is able to deliver and return messages to Grimmauld Place, so do non-wizards not apply to the Fidelus charm? This could be the downfall of headquarters, if it is the case.

Um....uh....it's MAGIC! Yeah, that's just one of those things, I noticed it too when I was reading the 5th one a little while ago. Best not to think about it too much.



As for the alleged chapter, it doesn't seem like her writing to me. She almost always starts her books with more description with dialog at least on the next page. And she would have said Severus Snape, not just Snape, I think. And isn't 'yards' an American term?

 

[Mr.GAW]

No, just because yards isn't metric doesn't mean it's only American.

 

[bluezaft]

Well duh, but would Rowling use it as measurement? I mean, I'm just asking, I really wouldn't know. Wouldn't that be like, I dunno, Stephen King writing "they stood a few meters apart?"

 

[Eor]

I don't buy that paragraph. Not good enough, in my opinion. Not her style.

 

[Mr.GAW]

Well apparently this was from a manuscript shown (not the actual book) for a split second on the interview. They say the date was october of 2005, I think.

I dunno. I still believe it for some reason, maybe because I actually like it, it's a non-boring way to start the book.

Anyways, I don't think J.K. wouldn't use the word "yards". I could swear I've seen her use it before in other HP books.

 

[Crimson King]

Anyways, I don't think J.K. wouldn't use the word "yards". I could swear I've seen her use it before in other HP books.

Re-read them all and find out!

Well, guys, we have about 5 and half full days until the book is out, so spoilers will start popping up soon. I didn't realize the reason the "Snape killed Dumbledore" got leaked was because a former assistant STOLE copies of the book and tried to publish them. My guess is she will be tighter with security this time.

 

[Mr.GAW]

Actually, I read that bookstores that already have them in England weren't forced to sign any kind of binding document upon recieving the books.

Scholastic said "we just hope people are responsible enough not to ruin the surprise! Plus, we trust the consumers would not support such an act of selling the books early."

Yeah, sure.

 

[Sargent_Peach]

You guys do know that there are different translations of the book. The British translation is shorter than the American one(DH), so it is possible that yards was used. But, I guess not, if it was the manuscript, because there usually aren't different translations of manuscripts.

CK- Can we stop people from putting up spoilers? I would like to continue discussing Harry Potter, but I don't want the LAST BOOK to be ruined. We don't need another Snape Kills Dumbledore on our hands. We should try and keep the integrity of the series alive.

 

[leviathan_]

The way to prevent getting spoiled ..is to have someone who doesn't read the books, buy it for you, and then lock yourself in your room with a deadbolt. ...j/k

I'm planning on not visiting any sites where spoilers are probably situated.. like this one , among other sites that have avid, and sometimes evil Harry Potter fans. : /

The Scholastic people are dumb... they're just dumb for saying that.

 

[leviathan_]

Sooo sorry for double post, I can't Edit my posts because of server problems..

Guys... I have VERY bad news, this is worse than what the Guardians' "revealed" about the intro to the last book. The chapters ..they've ALL been revealed by someone, and that person probably knows the whole story by now:

[link]http://digg.com/offbeat_news/Libraries_Face_200_000_Fines_For_Opened_New_Harry_Potter_Books[/link]

I stumbled upon this with Google... I was reading up about some library getting charged a fifth of a million, for opening up a package of Harry Potter books. But something else in that link caught my attention. In the comments, someone lists ALL the chapters and gives proof. The proof is a bunch of scanned images of the chapters! (undeniably real). And THEN, someone posted up a PDF file of the book, I believe..

This is far worst (or better?) than Snape kills Dumbledore... seriously.

 

[Sargent_Peach]

I want to go to the opening though. You know, see all the crazy fans that are dressed up, and discuss before the book comes out. Then I will go to my room and lock myself in there. I don't think I could not go get my reserved copy. Plus, I don't know a non Harry Potter fan that would go to Hastings at midnight for a book. Ya know?

 

[Crimson King]

Actually, if you read the Media Metropolis there is a topic about spoilers. I consider it VERY serious to spoil movies, books, anything, so yes, if you do spoil, you can get into some serious trouble. I should know, I posted the topic when I was mod of the room.

 

[Crimson King]

Actually, if you read the Media Metropolis there is a topic about spoilers. I consider it VERY serious to spoil movies, books, anything, so yes, if you do spoil, you can get into some serious trouble. I should know, I posted the topic when I was mod of the room.

 

[Mr.GAW]

leviathon, they took that link down. I can't manage to find anything anywhere that mentions the leak. Many torrent sites claim to be hosting the book, but only some of those seem to be legitimate.

No one claims to have the actual scans of pages, rather just text in Microsoft Word.

So, I believe it has been leaked, but I think it's being hushed up pretty well. The big HP websites haven't posted it in their news, most likely to prevent spoilers over the internet. Anyways, even if somebody WAS seeking to ruin the book for someone else, they would have quite some trouble doing it. It is hard, from what I hear, to find a site that actually hosts the genuine thing.

So, I'm not too worried. OotP and HBP were leaked beforehand too, but I didn't end up hearing spoilers.

Besides, Bloomsbury is finally cracking down.

 

[Sandy]

Here's my predictions:

Spoiler

Snape and Harry duel on a very high balcony with Voldemort watching in amusement. Snape threatens to kill Ron and Hermione, along with the rest of the Order of the Phoenix when he kills HArry, and makes Harry drive into a berserker rage. Harry corners Snape and drives him to the ground, and cuts off Snape's hand. Voldemort laughs and applauds Harry and then tells him to kill Snape and his transition to the Dark Arts would be complete. Harry refuses and Voldemort cast the Cruxio curse on Harry, making him twist in pain. In anger, Snape picks Voldemort up and throws him off of the balcony and Voldemort falls to his doom. Snape dies and Harry escapes before the area crumbles. Then the Ewoks celebrate.

 

[Mr.GAW]

Snape is good. Or working for himself. He is definetly not with Voldy.

 

[REDRAGON]

Here's my predictions:

Spoiler

Snape and Harry duel on a very high balcony with Voldemort watching in amusement. Snape threatens to kill Ron and Hermione, along with the rest of the Order of the Phoenix when he kills HArry, and makes Harry drive into a berserker rage. Harry corners Snape and drives him to the ground, and cuts off Snape's hand. Voldemort laughs and applauds Harry and then tells him to kill Snape and his transition to the Dark Arts would be complete. Harry refuses and Voldemort cast the Cruxio curse on Harry, making him twist in pain. In anger, Snape picks Voldemort up and throws him off of the balcony and Voldemort falls to his doom. Snape dies and Harry escapes before the area crumbles. Then the Ewoks celebrate.

And that kids, is how you build a doghouse!

 

[leviathan_]

The Ewoks will surely celebrate.. , God I hope J.K. Rowling DOESN'T end the book Star Wars style : /

 

[Mr.GAW]

Hey leviathan, do you have any kind of link that still works to those scans and the PDF files? I'm just curious as to what its all about.

Or the link to the library story, 'cause the one you listed isn't working.