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Hand-offs on platforms?

quindelin

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
14
If you get a grab on a platform, Nana will always forward throw, no matter what. The difficulty in this is that after the first hand off I can't get Nana to stay on the platform. Is there a special way to press down on the stick to make Nana stay on the platform so that she can grab again? It's not like Melee where you have to lightly tap downwards, cause that makes Nana fall just the same. This would greatly increase IC's punish game as if you get a grab on a platform it's the exact same as getting a grab near the ledge, leading to some crazy damage and grab combos.
 

ilysm

sleepy
Joined
Jul 13, 2014
Messages
648
Location
Cleveland, OH/Providence, RI
After the fist dthrow, you can do a wavedash in place input (shorthop and then immediately airdodge down with wavedash timing). Popo will do a dthrow due to the downwards input, but Nana will wavedash in place and will recover from that lag in time to catch even the lightest characters in the game. Be careful you don't buffer the inputs during Nana's throw endlag or Nana will just spotdodge and be useless (mostly).

Also, while I'm on the subject doing a spotdodge with Nana while dthrowing with Popo and then buffering a grab will cause Nana to automatically grab on the soonest frame. On some characters this is an easy guaranteed regrab and works super well on platforms. See these three posts for more info, cool setups, and Gfys. Hope this helps!
 
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quindelin

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
14
After the fist dthrow, you can do a wavedash in place input (shorthop and then immediately airdodge down with wavedash timing). Popo will do a dthrow due to the downwards input, but Nana will wavedash in place and will recover from that lag in time to catch even the lightest characters in the game. Be careful you don't buffer the inputs during Nana's throw endlag or Nana will just spotdodge and be useless (mostly).

Also, while I'm on the subject doing a spotdodge with Nana while dthrowing with Popo and then buffering a grab will cause Nana to automatically grab on the soonest frame. On some characters this is an easy guaranteed regrab and works super well on platforms. See these three posts for more info, cool setups, and Gfys. Hope this helps!
I asked some people about this at a tournament I was at and they told me I could buffer a throw after Nana's fthrow with the c-stick and Nana won't fall through. I tried it once and it worked You have to be fast but at least you don't have to do the wavedash technique which to me sounds like a higher chance of failure. I'll lab this and see how it goes. If I get good at the chainthrow to get someone up to a platform that you linked, combined with the previous technique, one grab not even near the ledge can lead into a death.
 

quindelin

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
14
I asked some people about this at a tournament I was at and they told me I could buffer a throw after Nana's fthrow with the c-stick and Nana won't fall through. I tried it once and it worked You have to be fast but at least you don't have to do the wavedash technique which to me sounds like a higher chance of failure. I'll lab this and see how it goes. If I get good at the chainthrow to get someone up to a platform that you linked, combined with the previous technique, one grab not even near the ledge can lead into a death.
After labbing this the wavedash technique isn't that hard. The buffer c-stick doesn't work as well as I'd hoped for two reasons.
1. Sometimes Nana can't move up fast enough for the regrab because it is buffered.
2. You can't blizzard in between grabs, and the reason we do handoffs is for the maximized damage.

Thank you for the help!
 

ilysm

sleepy
Joined
Jul 13, 2014
Messages
648
Location
Cleveland, OH/Providence, RI
No prob, glad it helped! One more thing: blizzard between grabs may not be the best plan because of the way grab stun works in Project M. In Melee attacks put you into a kind of hit stun while you've been grabbed, which makes it harder to mash out and is the reason why Wobbling works. In PM, pummels and attacks add no grab stun. Blizzard does build damage, but it also gives the opponent a huge window to mash out. Against opponents who don't mash it's fine, but if they mash they'll be escaping a lot of grabs.

EDIT: quindelin quindelin , I've looked into the c-stick buffer window you described, and learned a few things. So, you cannot act immediately out of any throw. Every throw in the game puts the throwing character in a certain amount of endlag that depends both on the throw and the weight of the character being thrown; the heavier the character, the longer the endlag. What I'm almost certain your friend was describing was actually the brief window wherein Nana is in endlag from her fthrow and Popo can dthrow without Nana falling through or doing any other action. You can perform this with both the c-stick and the control stick.

Pros to doing handoffs this way: Done correctly, these are pretty much inescapable as they leave no reasonable window for the opponent to mash out. Instead of regrabbing the opponent out of Nana's fthrow and then waiting for her to catch up before you throw again, you just immediately dthrow during Nana's throw endlag, then cause Nana to walk forward for the regrab during the dthrow animation. I like to call these "optimized" or "perfect" handoffs. They're basically 20XX (ice age? whatever) Icies handoffs.

Cons to doing handoffs this way: It's really damn hard. As I mentioned before, you need dthrow during Nana's throw endlag, then cause Nana to walk forward for the regrab during the dthrow animation. This is tricky on its own, but it gets even more difficult when you account for weight. When chaingrabbing lighter characters, the endlag on Nana's fthrow will be shorter and Popo's dthrow will be faster. This decreases both your window for inputting the throw and your window for getting the Nana regrab. This starts to get really really stupidly frustrating for the lighter characters in the cast. And you have to be fast and extremely attentive, because if you wait for Nana to catch up to you, then she'll fall through the platform after a normal dthrow input. Plus, if you walk forward too far with either Popo or Nana, then you run out of space more quickly. This means you need to do very precise, specific inputs quickly and consistently. And as the kids say these days, that ish is hard, yo.

Personally, I prefer the wavedash method when I'm on a platform. It works the most consistently for me since I have the most practice doing it, and the window it leaves for mashing is really very small if you don't move Popo forward too much when regrabbing. But technically, perfect handoffs are the most optimal kind to do in pretty much every situation. So if someone with fast fingers wants to grind it out, the option is there.

I've nerded out over Icies a lot today and I'm procrastinating on my studies (as per the usual) so I'm going to say I met my quota for now. Peace. ^_^
 
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