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Guide to Donkey Kong- 2014 update in progress

Discussion in 'Donkey Kong' started by NJzFinest, Jan 4, 2011.

  1. NJzFinest

    NJzFinest
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Hero

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2004
    Messages:
    8,858
    Location:
    Princeton, NJ
    for reference: Old DK Guide by GanondorftheXXVI
    [​IMG]
    =====================================================
    Foreword
    =====================================================

    The point of this guide is not to baby you by teaching you to wavedash, dash dance, and L-Cancel. It is assumed that you already know these tools and that they are already in your repertoire, be it from playing a different character or from already using Donkey Kong. This guide is here to teach you how to effectively apply these techniques in relation to Donkey Kong.
    Playing Donkey Kong is not easy. DK has many strengths, but just as many, if not more, weaknesses that makes his viability in a tournament setting relatively low. While DK is a solid character with the potential to do well in a tournament environment, if your goal in Melee is to win, Donkey Kong is probably not the best choice of character you can make. Donkey Kong is for players who either like Donkey Kong enough to use him despite his weaknesses, or really enjoy his playstyle.
    We stand before you with the knowledge of nearly 10 years of Melee's metagame advancement in reference to DK and a plethora of other characters. In this guide, we will delve deeply into Donkey Kong's competitive metagame and teach you how to push Donkey Kong to his limits. As useful a resource as this is, don't take it as the law. Who knows? You might be the player to discover a groundbreaking new technique or application with DK that none of us had ever thought of. We're just as eager to see your progress as a Donkey Kong player as you are to improve.- Strong Bad

    =====================================================
    Introduction
    =====================================================

    What you should know about competitive Melee

    This guide is dedicated to the explanation of advanced terms, techniques, how to improve, etc.

    Who is Donkey Kong?

    "The king of swing... the thrilla gorilla... the prime primate... It's Donkey Kong!"
    —Donkey Kong Country manual

    Donkey Kong, referred to by many as simply DK, is the main character of the "Donkey Kong" series of video games. His first game was called simply "Donkey Kong" and is basically the game that gave light to Nintendo's career of gaming. The Kong featured in that game is actually DK's father, who is now known as Cranky Kong. I'm sure you guys have heard of "Donkey Kong Jr." This Kong is the younger version of the current Donkey Kong.
    Donkey Kong hasn't received that much popularity by Nintendo fans. After the SNES era, he had only a few games here and there, so it isn't surprising to see that not many people use this character in all the two smash games that matter. Despite his lack of popularity, DK is a solid character in the right hands. He excels quite nicely in speed, edgeguarding, range, and combo ability.
    Donkey Kong's grab game is one of the most complex ones in Melee. He has a wide amount of options, so it shouldn't be surprising to see him turn the tides of a battle with just one grab, even against the best characters in the game.
    Donkey Kong is also one of the harder characters to use. You are basically required to study as many videos as possible to get a good idea of how he should be played. When looking for other people to practice with, of course, it's best to find people who are better then you. DK has very little room for making errors. Any slip up will end up with you missing a long combo / KO and having yourself getting killed / put to high percent, even if you were originally at low percent. Playing someone better then you forces you to learn how to make less mistakes and, simply put, get better in everything else. Using the time to practice on your own is also vital. It's important to be able to execute every technique with as much precision as you can.

    Why Donkey Kong?

    He's fun. Anyone who picks up this character will most likely enjoy using him (not including the Falco matchup). He has very interesting tricks, combos, and unique ways of dealing with troublesome situations. All of this makes a good DK player very entertaining to watch.
    For those players that love to use characters that haven't had their potential shown competitively yet, he is a perfect match. He's a rare character to find in a tournament and the people who main him are all limited as far as traveling goes. Pikachu, Mewtwo, Zelda, etc. all have players who are able to make it across the country to rep their characters. If you want to rep a character who is still underestimated, consider this kong. Donkey Kong requires an ability to space your attacks especially well and make the best of DK's few options in the neutral position.
    Simply put, if you don't enjoy playing DK, then you shouldn't use him. There are several other characters that would be better choices if you're looking to just win and not have fun. Probably a few that are good and you'd enjoy.


    Meet the DK players
    The Oldschool

    Captain Jack - THE oldschool DK player. When he came to the states for Ken's OC tourney, he apparently ***** a handful of players with his kong.
    AOB - Grandpa Andy is adored by millions of raving fans. While he's now out of the smash scene comepletely after handing over the Show Me Your Moves tournament series to other Illinois smashers, he still stands as the first US DK player that showed off his potential.
    PKMvodka - Seems to be inactive after Genesis, but another knowledgeable DK main. He has been known for always being one of the best DKs in the world.

    The Has Beens

    Bum - While he no longer plays, he still started up much of DK's current metagame back in 2007. This NY player pretty much put DK on the map.
    MEXICAN - West Coast DK player who has a crazy amount of experience from common matchups like space animals and Sheik to stupid ones like Ice Climbers and Luigi. At the moment, he is retired
    Strong Bad - was an up and coming DK player who's starting to get more and more experience. Unable to consistently play high leveled smashers like others, he meticulously studies frame data, hitboxes, and game mechanics to improve when he otherwise could not. Currently spamming Project M.
    Kwan - Never seen him post here, but he's extremely unknown. He's also a NY DK player with great talent.
    Nedech - Very skilled European DK main. Very smooth DK; knows his character extremely well. European Top Tier players have to approach their character differently because of their PAL changes, so Nedech likely understands certain matchups in ways that we don't. Has a ton of videos vs. gay characters and I'm sure he has wonderful insight he's JUST WAITING TO SHARE.

    The Now

    Ripple-
    Very skilled DK main from the Midwest. Knows how to use a lot of strange characters competitively.
    RockCrock - He is easily the most experienced DK player vs Fox, HANDS DOWN... prolly Ganon too. He doesn't post much, but if you take a look at his feats in the competitive scene, you'd see he's a great source to talk to. Uses Ganon much more than DK unfortunately.
    Phish-it - NY DK player, like more current version of Bum. He's in and out of the scene (currently in) and has experience with the best East Coast players. Most likely the best DK at the moment.
    NJzFinest - Pretty oldschool player. Has a lot of experience from living with some of the best Midwest players and is currently back in the NJ scene. Complains about Falco 24/7 and gets bopped. Also founded this guide.
    DC Scribz- Former Falcon main now using DK. Very solid NJ player with good results.
    Green Ranger- Came out of no where and is easily the most well known DK player as of the current meta. Probably the best DK to learn from since he has a good deal of recent vids from a variety of players.
    Eikalmann- RockCrock Jr in a way. Uses Ganon more but has a solid DK. He doesn't seem to whip out DK much but he's definitely up there as a top DK.

    Top DKs / People you want to watch- Phish-it, Green Ranger, RockCrock, Eikalmann


    Helpful links:

    MEXICAN's question and answer thread
    Donkey Kong Hitboxes & Frame Data
    The DK community's video thread


    The Good, the Bad
    Pros-
    Fantastic grab game
    Good range
    Above average recovery
    High weight, high survivability
    Surprisingly quick
    Some characters over- or under-estimate his weight/falling speed and mess up combos.
    Rarely used!!!!
    3 Frame invincible move on the ground (Up-B)
    2 frame invincible move in the air (Up-b)
    Solid Edgeguarding
    One of the few characters that can ko off the top
    Has a LOT of options for KO moves
    Slightly disjointed, quick, spammable aerial (B-Air)

    Cons-
    Combo bag
    Weak to projectiles
    When facing torwards the opponent, he has very little options in terms of safely approaching
    Horrible shield -> weak to shield pressure
    Struggles to combo a few lighter characters
    Has a hurtbox for his tie. Why?

    DK stats
    -Invincible for about 59.459459.....% of his spot dodge (19th best)
    -Air dodge Starting time - 4 frames, Total Time invincible - 26 frames (frames 4-29)
    -4th in roll invincibility
    -10th in rolling distance
    -5th falling speed
    -6th fast falling speed
    -2nd in shield size (unfortunately the position of his shield and his size makes him very weak to shield pressure)
    -17th in wavedash / traction
    -6 frame jump speed Jumping speed is how long it takes to do a jump from the ground
    -5 frames from landing
    -4th in jump height
    -20th in second jump
    -25th in total jump
    -13th in short jump height
    -FIRST in Ledge Rolling Distance (99% and down)
    -FIRST in Ledge Rolling Distance over 100%
    -2nd most reach in ledge attack (99% and down)- 8% damage
    -Most reach in ledge attack over 100%- 10% damage
    -8th in horizontal moving speed
    -19th in Horizontal Aerial Falling Distance (how far a character can move in the air horizontally relative to time)
    -16th in grabbing range (worse then Peach and Peach is considered to have awful grabbing range, making her chaingrab and grab game very difficult. Keep this in mind with DK)
    - Does 10% from Cargo hold (if the victim escapes DK's hand's while he's carrying the other character, then BOTH characters receive 10%

    =====================================================
    Quick Notes
    =====================================================

    If you're looking for a quick read, here you go. This is for people who are more experienced, kinda know DK, and just want a few tips:
    Dash Dance fish for grabs

    Spam Bair, it's Fast, good range, beats a lot of moves

    Crouch cancel for grabs

    Up B out of shield vs pressure, Up B after Bairs that are misspaced on shields, Up B when people fall on top of you- good KO move

    Ftilt like a Marth

    Uptilt like a Link

    Nair (sometimes) like a fat Marth.

    Light Shield a lot

    If they ban FD, go PS or DL64

    Marth and Puff are the easiest top tiers.

    Down B for lazy tech chases. Range is amazing.

    Charge Punch, use Punch.

    When you recover, you don't need to touch the edge. Just float near it and DK will autograb it.

    Peach, Sheik and FALCO are hell.
     
    #1 NJzFinest, Jan 4, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2014
    Silvio and DestinNotDustin like this.
  2. NJzFinest

    NJzFinest
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Hero

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2004
    Messages:
    8,858
    Location:
    Princeton, NJ
    =====================================================
    Moveset
    =====================================================


    Ground Moves
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Uppercut / Monkey Jab: Jab

    Speed: Medium
    Priority: Medium
    Range: Medium
    Start Time: Medium
    Lag Time: Noticeable after the initial hit. You must wait for DK to bring his arm back
    completely you can move again.
    Knockback: Low
    -(punch 1) Total frames: 24
    -(punch 1) Hit frames: 5-7
    Window of the second punch: 3-29
    Second punch starts: 10 (or later)
    -(punch 2) Total frames: 34
    -(punch 2) Hit frames: 5-11
    Damage:
    -Jab1- 4% (All hitboxes)
    -Jab2- 6% (All hitboxes)

    Mexican: First jab isn't too bad. It's good for throwing off an opponent or jab resetting. I sometimes use it after a d tilt because it can sometimes catch people trying to punish the lag from the d tilt...which is virtually non existent, but most people don't know that. lol. The second part of the jab should just about never be used. It has SO much more lag after the second hit. A combo that I do that has worked in the past is l cancelled n air into a d tilt, then jab immediately after, and then f tilt after that. I'd recommend using f tilt as a second hit to supplement the jab.

    Slap-away: Forward Tilt

    Speed: Medium
    Priority: Medium
    Range: High
    Start Time: Medium
    Lag Time: Noticeable after the initial hit. You must wait for DK to bring his arm back
    completely you can move again.
    Knockback: Medium
    Total frames: 33
    Hit frames: 8-11
    Damage:
    Up-Angled F-Tilt- 11% (All hitboxes)
    Normal F-Tilt- 10% (All hitboxes)
    Down-Angled F-Tilt- 9% (All hitboxes)

    NJzFinest: A very underestimated move. It has very good range and works well when used after a missed Bair that fell short. When I say this, picture a Fox dash dance camping DK. DK tries to hit with a Back air, but the move missed when he did a dash the other way. Now Fox is going to dash in and Nair/grab. The Forward tilt will catch him before he can hit you. On it's own, it hits the enemy a good distance away and it's solid in spacing wars, even against characters such as Marth. Be careful not to randomly spam it of course and be "creative" of how you use it, the move isn't that quick and if miss spaced, DK is in a world of trouble. For example I love to use this move after a short hop + waveland, simply out of a wavedash, or after a Bair. But you'll never see me using it very often.

    Mexican: I personally don't like f tilt after a missed b air over another just dashing away and doing another b air...at least not against fox.. Maybe against someone like sheik...but DK isn't so hot on the ground, I prefer to take the game to the air whenever possible. F tilt IS a good move though. It's good if you need a quick hit with a good distance when you don't have time to land a grab... You can combo with it as well after a n air. If you're doing an u air juggle on a fast faller, and they always di to your front, you can do a n air into a f tilt, and there's another variation with a dash attack that i'll go over later. It's also, just a flat out "get back" move. It's rather effective against characters like ganon that short hop a lot.

    Overhead Smack: Up Tilt

    Speed: Fast
    Priority: Medium
    Range: Medium
    Start Time: Fast
    Lag Time: There's enough lag to make comboing after not guaranteed. You have to wait for dk to face back forward.
    Knockback: Medium
    Total frames: 39
    Hit frames: 6-11
    Damage: Up-Tilt has 3 hitboxes. One does 9%, one does 10%, and one does 11%.

    NJzFinest: Another underestimated move but doesn't have as much use as the previous tilt. Many players refrain from using it, but I particularly like it because of it's speed and nice range (range that extents in back of DK). As previously mentioned in the forward tilt section, it can be used after the Back air in the same exact way (of course you don't turn around like you do with the Ftilt since you're using the back part of the move for range). I learned this from watching Rockcrock's DK and slowly incorparated it into my playstyle. It's very similar to how Links, YLinks, Marths, etc. use reverse Uptilt.
    Reasons why you may throw it out instead of the Ftilt:
    It can combo into a grab or Up air (not at lower percents though)
    Faster
    Reasons why you may throw out the Ftilt instead:
    More range
    Isn't percent dependant for effectiveness
    Other then that, Uptilt usage is surprisingly tight, since you should be turned around and it's a ground move. You may throw it out a few times when simply having your back facing and the opponent does an obvious approach, but it's situations like those where you can simply dash dance and grab.

    Mexican: You guys already know that this isn't a move i'm too fond of. I believe RockCrock is a better DK player than i am, and if he uses it effectively, then he'd probably be the better person to get some insight on this move from. I DO however...like using it after a missed Giant punch..If they manage to roll behind you when you giant punch or something, or try wavedashing/running in to punish the lag (which again, is almost non existent and most others don't know that). It catches them pretty well, and if you are playing on a platformed stage, and they land on it, it's combo time =D

    Duck Slap: Down Tilt

    Speed: Fast
    Priority: Medium
    Range: Medium
    Start Time: Fast
    Lag Time: Medium
    Knockback: Medium
    Total frames: 22
    Hit frames: 6-9
    Damage: 7% (All hitboxes)

    NJzFinest: This move has decent range and speed, but unfortunately can't be canceled like Marth's/Roy's. It's a nice move when used on opponents trying to sweetspot the edge. As an approach, it's pretty much the only ground option DK has when running forwards besides a grab, shield, or rare dash A. As an approach it's pretty decent, but you're not guaranteed anything else after throwing it out since there's no setup. I never find myself using it outside of edgeguarding, but I'm sure there can be more to say about it ***

    Mexican: I LOVE the d-tilt. It's DK's best "jab" type move. DK's normal jab doesn't have enough knockback to let you get away, but the d-tilt is very fast and DOES knock them far enough back to let you get away. It's the best move to use to guard yourself after a shielded or missed aerial. It's also stupidly good for edgeguarding. It will always hit Fox/Falco's Forward-B recovery, and always hits a Falcon/Ganon out of their Up-B.

    Smellingsalt: Foward Smash

    Speed: Slow
    Priority: Decent
    Range: Medium
    Start Time: Slow
    Lag Time: Noticeable after the initial hit. You must wait for DK to return to his original stance again.
    Knockback: High
    Total frames: 54
    Hit frames: 22-23
    Charge frame: 15
    Damage:
    Forward Smash has 4 hitboxes.
    -Hitbox 1- 20% (second biggest hitbox)
    -Hitbox 2- 21% (biggest hitbox)
    -Hitbox 3- 19% (second smallest hitbox)
    -Hitbox 4- 18% (smallest hitbox)

    NJzFinest: Arguably the coolest smash attack in the game. It has nice knockback, good range, but it's pretty slow. However, it isn't Bowser-like speed, so in a few occasions, you can pull out a surprise factor on your opponent, but I wouldn't recommend it. I use it when comboing Fast fallers or edgeguarding people who aren't sweetspotting. On platform stages, I like to chaingrab spacies/Falcon on one of the platforms into a forward smash. The forward smash with combo after a grab on them from like, ~50 to ~65%. I want to say 70, but I'm not to sure. For edgeguarding, I love to down tilt Falcons and Ganondorfs to mess up their sweetspot and they will almost always try to Up B right afterwards (if they don't, just dtilt the next sweetspot attempt). This makes them easy charged Fsmash bait. A perfect example can be seen in RockCrock vs Scar.

    Mexican: Yeah...not much more to say...It comes out fairly quickly after a b air, and sometimes you can catch someone trying to wavedash in after. I almost never use it unless I'm getting desperate and hoping that I get lucky. lol. Biggest use is what you already said, f smash after a cargo up throw on platformed stages.
    I sometimes use DK's F-smash to punish miss rests or broken shields if I want to keep my fully charged Giant Punch. If I know I'll get the KO either way, then I might as well save my charge and not make my Giant Punch stale. And if I'm NOT going to get the kill, then there's only a difference of 3% between a fully charged F-smash and a fully charged Giant Punch, and I'd rather have my Giant Punch handy still since I might not have time to fully charge again before they make it back to the stage, or I want to be able to edgeguard them and not worry about my Giant Punch being charged. I only use the Giant Punch when it's borderline and I think that I MIGHT be able to get a KO and a F-smash won't do it.

    Overhead Clap: Up smash

    Speed: Slow
    Priority: Low
    Range: Medium
    Start Time: Slow
    Lag Time: Noticeable after the initial hit. You must wait for DK to return to his original stance again.
    Knockback: High
    Total frames: 53
    Hit frames: 14-16
    Forearms and head invincible: 12-16
    Charge frame: 7
    Damage: 18% (both hitboxes)

    NJzFinest: A pretty horrible up smash, since it only hits directly above DK + it's slow. This move is pretty much only effectively used as a finisher on a faster faller after a cargo up throw around ~90%+. You do have some room to charge the smash a bit before you combo into the upsmash.

    Mexican: I believe DK's hands are invincible during this move...but yeah...terrible up smash. It has good knockback, but it's stupidly difficult to land, and is easily punished. I sometimes use it after a successful d air on a fast faller. Like if they fall on the top platform, I'll jump to make them think I'm going to try to u air them through the stage, getting them to "wake up", and then I'll use my second jump to get above the platform and d air. If that lands, I charge the u smash as long as I can. I've gotten kills this way before...

    Kong’s Judgment: Down Smash

    Speed: Fast
    Priority: Decent
    Range: Medium
    Start Time: Fast
    Lag Time: Slow
    Knockback: High
    Total frames: 55
    Hit frames: 10-13
    Charge frame: 7
    Damage: one of his hands do 14%, the other does 16%

    NJzFinest: It's relatively fast and hits whatever is close to DK. The KOing factor is mediocre. It's nice when used out of a crouch cancel (similar to what Samus can do), but the lag time on this move is prolly the longest out of all of his smashes. You shouldn't be using this much since crouch cancel to grab is almost always a better option. Against lighter characters this can be a solid KO option at higher percents when a crouch cancel-> grab -> cargo upthrow + aerial won't connect/kill.

    Mexican: I love this move against Fox. Fox players love to short hop nair you and land behind you and dash away. If you crouch cancel the n-air and d-smash, it'll catch the Fox. If they're at high enough damage, you even have a chance to kill them. If nothing else, it puts them in the air and you below them, which is a pretty good spot to be in. It's just in general, a good crouch cancelled move.


    Trip Kick: Dash A

    Speed: Medium
    Priority: Good
    Range: Medium
    Start Time: Medium
    Lag Time: Slow
    Knockback: High
    Total frames: 54
    Hit frames: 9-20
    Damage:
    -Hitboxes on frame 9-12- 11%
    -Hitboxes on frame 13-20- 9%

    Mexican: Okayyy....so the dash attack part. I love the dash attack. My favorite stage to play at is pokemon stadium and dash attack is great there. First of all, dash attack is GREAT for beating/exchanging with all of fox's moves. If it exchanges, it's even better than if you just flat out win at lower damages. You can crouch cancel while doing your dash attack, and if you get sex kicked and crouch cancel it, fox goes flying up from your dash attack, while your lag is completely cancelled out because you got hit, thus giving you a free chance to follow up with an u air, or whatever move you feel like using. Even if you don't get that setup, if the fox gets hit, he will more often than not, land on top of the platform, giving you almost guaranteed u airs that can set up a combo for you. It's also great for disrupting dash attacks because foxes and others generally wait until they see you stop dash dancing to break their dash dance. When you do your dash attack, your leg hangs out there for a pretty good amount of time. They run into it quite a bit. It's also pretty good at going through shields.
    Also, as i mentioned before, it can be used after a n air. You can do the u air combos into a nair, and do that into a dash attack. This sometimes comes out pretty sexy, because you can sometimes even do an up b after that. N air->dash attack->up b is really sexy. I pull it off once in awhile, but it's never been recorded, otherwise I would show you a reference.
    I also use it for tech chasing sometimes because if they just stand up, and i try to grab, if i mistime it, i get punished. If they do a get up attack, i get hit away when i try to grab. However, if i use the dash attack, it stays out long enough to still hit them if they just stand up. And, if they do a get up attack, it'll clank with their get up attack a lot of times and your lag gets cancelled out and you can just grab immediately afterward and you've got yourself a free grab....The dash attack relies on clanking and exchanging a lot, but if/when it does, it pays off pretty well

    Strong Bad: My thoughts on dash attack: It's not something to use often against good players. As MEXICAN said, it has its uses, however much like any trick that a lower-tiered character has in his arsenal, it has the drawback of being punishable if it's predicted. Your opponent will adapt to your use of Dash Attack and punish you for it if you try to use it often. Try it out for yourself and make the call as to whether or not you're going to include it in your repertoire.

    Aerial Moves
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Kong Twirl: Neutral A

    Speed: Fast
    Range: Medium (surprisingly)
    Start time: Fast
    Priority: Decent
    Lag Time: Medium
    Knockback: Decent
    Total frames: 43
    Hit frames: 10-26
    IASA frame: 39
    Auto cancel: <9 39>
    Landlag: 20
    Lcanceled: 10
    Damage:
    -Hitboxes on frame 10-13- 12%
    -Hitboxes on frame 14-26- 10%

    NJzFinest: Pretty mediocre move on it's own. The range in front of DK is ok, like Mario's Fair. The hitbox itself seems to cover a decent portion of DK's body. I used to never use outside of comboing after an Uair, but I'm trying to experiment with it more. I now find myself using it a decent amount since it pretty nice speed, ok range, and setups up for a grab. It's the only aerial approach DK has when facing forward. If I want to attack an opponent when falling down to the a ground + facing forward (if I am unable to reverse B charge cancel to turn around), this is my move of choice.
    Going back to it's average range, I think if used with a backwards SH, there are some nice tricks you can do with spacing, but I'm theory crafting here since I have yet to use it like that. To anyone who has seen a Mario/Doc player, it's very common to see them SH back and Fair a Fox as it does a dashed SHFFL Nair. DK could to the same with Nair but the timing is pretty funky.
    As for comboing, this is very nice to use on fast fallers while doing cargo grab combos. After a Uair, you can do this into a grab, Ftilt, or dash A to continue the combo even further. The reason why Nair is even able to do this is because of hit's hitbox above DK (which is what you should keep in mind if you're having trouble with this combo). I only find myself using the Nair as a combo if the opponent is DIing away from me and if I have enough room. If I'm ever coming an opponent and need to do a quick move that hits in front of me, I Nair.
    If you look at a good number of Bum videos, you'd see that this move has some decent edgeguarding capabilites. What Bum would do is dash jump off the stage and Nair a recovering space animal and proceed to double jump + Up B (if necessary). Because of the decent priority and hitbox, it can be quite effective in catching them out of their forward B and Up B recoveries.
    Watch Green Ranger for good examples of how to approach with Nair.

    Mexican: There are more uses for the n-air. It's also good for comboing and edgeguarding in different ways from how Bum used it. A rising n-air that hits with the back part of the n-air gives you a free move after. I use it when someone tries to recover high because it stays out longer than the b-air and it gives you a free b-air after you hit with it anyway. I believe, depending on your opponents DI, you can even do a rising n-air into a Giant punch. I try to hit with the back part of the n-air at the end of the attack. N-air has less lag than the b-air, so you can do an attack almost immediately after the n-air hits. One other use is when someone lands on a platform and is at high damage, I'll jump to where they're at and n-air, so if they wake up when I am in the middle of my attack, they get hit and go flying off stage setting up an edgeguard. It's an almost guaranteed hit, and although other attacks may kill, they are also a lot harder to hit with. Sometimes I like the higher risk, sometimes i like the guaranteed hit. Granted, I'm also fairly confident about my edgeguarding

    Head Banger: Forward A

    Speed: Slow
    Range: Good
    Start time: Slow
    Priority: Decent
    Lag Time: BAD
    Knockback: Good (if sweetspot is missed, it meteors the opponent)
    Total frames: 59
    Hit frames: 25-29
    Auto cancel: NONE
    Landlag: 30
    Lcanceled: 15
    Damage: always 16%

    NJzFinest: A very beast aerial. It's should be your main finisher in a combo if you are unable to do / land a Giant Punch. This move can be used after landing from a Uair combo. Against floatier characters like Marth and Peach, it can be used out of a cargo up throw from the ground until about 80-90% to knock them off stage. However, on the characters as floatly as Samus, Luigi, and Puff, don't expect to be able to land it off a grab. Keep in mind that you most jump and input the move as soon as possible to ensure it will land before the opponent is out of hitstun, due ot it's horrible speed.
    This move can also be used after an aerial cargo back throw (you must double jump and do it). You can edgeguard with it, but it's difficult to time it and there's always a better option.

    Kong Stomp: Down A

    Speed: Slow
    Range: Medium
    Start time: Slow
    Priority: Good
    Lag Time: Slow
    Knockback: Decent
    Total frames: 54
    Hit frames: 18-23
    Auto cancel: <2 50>
    Landlag: 31
    Lcanceled: 15
    Damage:
    -Hitbox 1- 16% (biggest hitbox)
    -Hitboxes 2 & 3- 13%

    NJzFinest: Um, it's pretty good. It pretty much mirror's CFalcon's Dair, so you'd expect to land it off of tech chases or other reads. Personally, I'd rather go for a grab every single time I could possibly Dair. I use Dair after I do a cargo up throw + double jump. This is something I took from Nedech. On stages with 3 platforms, you can grab -> cargo -> full jump -> cargo up throw under middle top platform -> double jump and Dair. From there, you can continue to punish them as they are hit into the top platform. Green Ranger has been doing this a lot too. Another thing to note is this Dair is surprisingly easy to meteor cancel. I personally don't recommend edgeguarding with it.

    KirbyKaze and Strong Bad brought up that this move is great punishment of laggy onstage recovery. It's very useful against characters you can force to land on stage such as Sheik and Cfalcon.

    Mexican: DK's d air is also good against Ganon/Falcon when they are recovering. You can purposely get grabbed by their Up-B, wall tech/jump into a d-air, and they really can't do anything about it other than try to meteor cancel, which you can still hit them again in your second jump (since their Up-B is technically a grab and not a hit, you get your second jump back even if you already used it)


    Back Kick: Back A

    Speed: Fast
    Range: Good
    Start time: Fast
    Priority: Great
    Lag Time: Very low
    Knockback: Good
    Total frames: 39
    Hit frames: 7-15
    IASA frame: 32
    Auto cancel: <6 20>
    Landlag: 15
    Lcanceled: 7
    Damage:
    -Hitboxes on frame 7-8- 13%
    -Hitboxes on frame 9-15- 9%

    NJzFinest: Easily one of the best aerials in the game. This move has insane speed and priority and can be used for a number of things (KOing, edgeguarding, approaching, comboing). When people say DK is a good character when facing backwards, they're not joking. Bair should be your main move when approaching your opponent. Eventhough it can be auto canceled out of a short hop, it's best to use this move when you let yourself hit the ground and L-cancel it, to avoid characters from ducking under it and allowing you to follow up with a grounded move (ex. ftilt or dash grab). The only way you can have Bair lead into anything is to have it end immediately after the initial hit. The priority helps you beat alot of the moves and, when combined with the knockback, serves as a solid move for edgeguarding the opponent.
    Keep in mind this, 7 is the magic number you want from a Lcanceled aerial. Marth's Uair, Nair, and Fair have this number, which means he can dash away, buffer a spot dodge, UpB (in some situations), or buffer a roll everytime he lands an aerial on a shield to avoid being punished. Pichu's Nair is 6, which means he can pretty much escape everytime. Anyways, with DK, it means you can buffer into a roll or spot dodge (well, I'm not sure if DK's spot dodge start fast enough if your Bair was landed in the middle of a shield) to avoid being punished. When you land in the middle of a shield when doing a Bair, one of the nice things DK can also do is Up B to avoid being grabbed or hit with an OoS aerial. Later in the UpB section of the guide, you will learn why you may want to do this. But pretty much, the idea is that Bair is very hard to punish.
    As far as combos go, you can do a Bair into another Bair or do a Bair unto an Uair on average weight characters after setting up an aerial combo. If I recall correctly, Mexican's DK ditto matches with PKMvodka has such combos, maybe also Linguini vs RockCrock. Here's an example of myself using Bair to combo:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_EgEYnruf8#t=0m28s
    Overall, this move does everything. It helps you approach, helps you setup, helps you rack up damage, helps you KO, and is extremely safe to use.

    Head Smash: Up A

    Speed: Fast
    Range: Medium
    Start time: Fast
    Priority: Decent
    Lag Time: Low
    Knockback: Decent
    Total frames: 44
    Hit frames: 6-8
    IASA frame: 38
    Auto cancel: <5 13>
    Landlag: 25
    Lcanceled: 12
    Damage: 14%

    NJzFinest: DK's most notorious move. This will be your main move when comboing and KOing off the top. Up air is a move that if you're shorthopping, you shouldn't be L-Canceling. Become accustomed to being able to short hop + fastfall this while never pressing L/R, the move autocancels quick enough. After you do a cargo up throw on any character, this will almost always be the move of choice. As far as specific combos go, this will be covered more later in the guide.
    As a move on it's own, it KOs about 30% later then Fox's Uair. But, it's the lower knock back of this move that makes it such a great tool for juggling combos. For fast fallers, you can land Uairs into regrabs at lower percents and chain them continously at higher percents. On average falling characters such as Roy/Sheik/Ganon/Link, you can start comboing them repeatively with Uairs from just one cargo setup. On the slower falling characters like Marth/Peach/YLink, you can definitely string Uairs on them, but they almost always need to be above you already as you punish them with a Uair. These combos are always very % based. For the even slower fallers, you can get one Uair, but that is still better then no damage (especially since most characters can't combo them well at all) and these characters are the easiest to KO with this move.

    Special Moves
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Giant Punch: Neutral B

    Speed: Decent
    Range: Godly, I think it's the longest reach
    Start time: Decent
    Priority: Sex
    Lag Time: Decent
    Knockback: Godly
    Total frames: N/A
    Hit frames: 17-21
    Damage:
    -Aerial & Grounded Uncharged
    Shoulder 12%
    Punch 10%
    -Fully Charged
    Shoulder 18%
    Punch 30%
    -Aerial Fully Charged
    Shoulder 16%
    Punch 27%

    *Full charge grants invincible 17-18*

    NJzFinest: DK's Giant Punch has ridiculous range, damage, knockback, and priority. It's speedy enough to be a combo finisher from a cargo up throw, up air, Dair, and down throw (character and DI dependent). Normally I try to have my punch charged at full as much as possible, but sometimes it depends on the matchup. If I'm fighting a speedy character, I usually charge it a tiny bit a certain times, until it's eventually full. Usually when I charge it, I do a reverse B so I can have my back to the opponent and back air them.
    Outside of comboing, Giant Punch is still a great move. Think of it as Marth's forward smash, however with more range and knockback. You can throw out this move on it's own in 3 ways. When you know your opponent is going to attack/approach, you can throw it out and basically beat them regardless of what move they do (unless it's a projectile lol). This can vary from them dashing into a grab, approaching with an aerial, getting of the edge, etc. Giant Punch can also be used when you're very confident of it's surprise factor. It is come to find people who will no see it coming. Missing isn't too much of an issue since the move is pretty much not possible to punish (when spaced correctly) since its end lag is ok and it has good hitsun on shields. A lot of people are extremely unaware of the range on the Giant Punch, even DK mains, so abuse that. The 3rd way is when you know your opponent is hopeless, such as poor recovery, tech reads, shield break, missed rest, combo finish, etc.

    Strong Bad: This is easily one of my favorite DK move. Fully charged, it gets the benefit of 7 frames quicker startup, higher knockback/damage, and invincibility frames 17 and 18 (the hit frames). This move has an absurd amount of range, so unless it's painstakingly obvious you're going to use it you get land it in a variety of situations. Floatier match-ups like Peach and Jigglypuff are based around Back-Air and Giant Punch. Condition your opponents to space themselves barely out of range of Back-Air and then do a reverse Giant Punch to murder them. Mix things up though with empty short hop to grab and waveland Up-B so they can't rely on the same thing every time. Mix-ups are what drive a lot of higher level competitive play so you'd better start learning.

    Spinning Kong: Up B

    Speed: Fastest move DK has
    Range: Medium
    Start time: FAST
    Priority: Good
    Lag Time: Low
    Knockback: Decent
    Total frames: 84
    Landlag: see total
    Landfallspeciallag: 7
    Hit frames:
    -In the Air
    Hit: 2-5, 11-66 (several hitboxes)
    Invincible 2-5
    Arms invincible: 11-42
    -On the Ground
    Hit: 3-5, 19-58 (several hitboxes)
    Invincible 3-5
    Damage:
    -Grounded Up-B Elbow Smack 12%
    -Grounded Up-B Body Smack 8%
    -Arm-Spin hits 3%
    -Aerial Up-B Strong Hit: 10%
    -Secondary Strong hit 5%
    -Arm-Spin hits: 2%

    NJzFinest: My favorite move hands down. The 2 frame startup and invinciblity makes it a perfect "get off me" move. This move should be used mostly when you land an aerial on a shield or if your shield is being punished. Because of its speed and invincibility, you can avoid being shield grabbed or attacked out of shield after you land an aerial. DK can also can knock away people who are pillaring his shield to give himself breathing room. Since it has decent knockback, don't be surprised if you score KOs off this, especially since most people won't see it coming (missed DI).
    The number one thing you should consider is your opponents character height. The strong part of the move hits on the upper part of DK's body and around his face. Very short characters like Puff and Pichu won't get hit buy it. Characters that are taller but still considered short, like Mario and Fox, can get it, but only if they're position around DK's upper body (ex. when doing SH aerials on DK's shield). Basically, if someone at that height is on the back side of me, I never hit with this move. To help with this problem, you can do an short hop + immediately Up B. The aerial up B has a different sweetspot that will hit them.
    Speaking of the aerial Up B, it's pretty underestimated. On floatlies, you can cargo up throw + Up air + double jump up B for a combo which can be about 0-43%. The move can also be used to escape combos, such as C.Falcon's Up Throw/forward B + knee. When recovering, keep in mind that with Up B, you can dodge moves that are aimed at an edge's sweetspot. If you hover close to the edge at about DK's grab range's length, you will dodge the move and still grab the edge. This is due to the fact his arms are invincible frame 11-42.

    Hand Slap: Down B

    Speed: Slow
    Range: Great
    Start time: Slow
    Priority: Good?
    Lag Time: High
    Knockback: Low
    Total frames and Hit Frames:
    -Minimum Slaps
    Total: 60
    Hit: 19-20, 30-31
    -Repeatedly Slapping
    Total: 27
    Hit: 6-7, 17-18
    Wind down: 20
    Damage: 11%

    NJzFinest: This is pretty much the "lazy man" punish for opponents fooling around on the ground. It's pretty solid for situations when characters knocked on the ground. There are times when a JC grab can't make it in time when chasing someone teching away from you. With Down B's crazy range, it will help catch your opponent. It's also good when you need help punishing someone who spotdodges or is simply grounded most of the time (ex. iceclimbers, samus, luigi).
    Sometimes I find myself using it when I know people are going to waveland or aerial off an edge torwards me. Like the Giant Punch, it's very easy to underestimate the range on this move, but overall, I don't use it much since the ending lag is horrible.

    Head Butt: Forward B

    Speed: Slow
    Range: Decent
    Start time: Slow
    Priority: Low
    Lag Time: High
    Knockback: None
    Total frames:59
    Hit Frames: 20-21
    Damage:
    -Aerial 10%
    -Grounded 5%

    NJzFinest: When I first used DK, I found myself using this a lot, only to learn how terrible it is. Till this day, I still use it a decent amount. When I use this move, it's as an aerial stall, like a Fox doing a shine over and over. It helps me in some recovering situations and when I'm knocked really high above an opponent.
    As a ground move, it's pretty bad since it takes years to come out and good players will almost always wiggle out too fast. But if you land it, there's good that comes out of it. I've used it after a dash pivot on Foxes-> they wiggle out successfully only to get Giant Punched/grabbed/sweetspot Up B'd. So when characters get out of the move, they have a certain animation they most go through. You can easily punish this, just like a tech roll or spotdodge. Unfortunately the cons outweigh the pros for this move, it's just too slow, has ok range, and bad priority. The Brawl counterpart is much better.


    =====================================================
    The Grab
    =====================================================

    Grab Data
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Frames:

    Standing
    Total: 30
    Grab: 8-9

    Dash
    Total: 40
    Grab: 10-11

    *Never use Dash grab, JC grab is always better*

    Damage:
    • Pummel - 2-3% .
    • Cargo (input forward throw) -
      • Up - 7%.
      • Down - 6%
      • Back - 8%
      • Forward - 8%
    • Back - 10%
    • Down - 7%
    • Up - 9%


    The Cargo Throw

    This is pretty much what makes DK... DK. Knowing the setups from this grab is pretty crucial in all matchups.

    First thing to note is that DK can move as he has someone on his back. You can walk left or right and even jump.

    Second thing to note is to be mindful of the way DK is facing when carrying an opponent on his back. It effects where they are sent in relation to DK when they DI. For example, say if you cargo throw a Fox and you're facing left. Let's say Fox is DIing left. If you turn around to the right before you up throw, Fox will end up closer to you. This helps for combos against all characters. I love it vs floaties like Samus/Puff/Luigi since it makes connecting Uairs at high %s easier.

    Cargo Up Throw
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Dk's bread and butter. Vs Fast Fallers, this is what can potentially lead to quick 0 to death combos. Vs Floaties, you pretty much threat this as Up Throw > Uair from Fox. First, like any Marth player, you should learn how to maximize your grab setups.

    No Platform Combos (Final Destination/PokemonStadium/~DreamLand)

    Vs Fast Fallers
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Cargo Upthrow Uair:

    Starting at 0%, you can cargo upthrow into a short hop fastfall Uair (no need to Lcancel, the move will autocancel before you hit the ground). After that Uair connects, you can dash JC grab for another cargo throw. The amount of time you have after you hit a fast faller (Fox/Falco/CFalcon) and attempt the regrab is very short. It's also hard to regrab a fast faller if they DI correctly. To make this easier, you can short hop before you cargo upthrow. This puts the opponent higher in the air, so you have more time to react for a dash JC grab.

    Here we are so far. Cargo Up Throw, Uair, regrab, Cargo Up throw, Uair > next move

    vs Fox/Falco - regrab again or Uair/Nair/Bair
    vs Falcon - Uair or Nair/Bair. Falcon can jump out of the combo after the second Cargo Upthrow Uair regrab attempt. So instead of going for 2nd regrab, you just Uair instead. EVERY Falcon will be spamming double jump and you'll catch the start of their jump with the Uair. From here you continue your aerial string, keeping in mind they do not have a second jump.

    For Fox/Falco, after the regrab, Cargo Upthrow into an Uair (no need to short hop in your cargo throw at higher %s). For Falcon, after the Uair, you pretty much just keep doing more. In both scenarios, the opponent will have enough percent where you can continue another Uair and another Uair. If they DI completely away from you and you can't Uair, Nair can help continue a combo into a regrab. Be mindful of Fox/Falco/Falcon's height, as you might want to full jump Uair at times. This combo can be finished with Forward Airs, Giant Punches, Back Airs, or just another Uair.

    Full combo- Fox/Falco- Cargo Upthrow Uair, regrab, Cargo Upthrow Uair, regrab, Cargo Upthrow > Aerial string.
    Full combo- Captain Falcon- Cargo Upthrow Uair, regrab, Cargo Upthrow Uair, Uair > Aerial string.

    *video*

    Cargo Upthrow Chaingrab:

    DK can chaingrab fast fallers with just Cargo Upthrow-> dash JC regrab. This lasts until about mid 20% I believe. Normally I just use it to this percent where I Cargo Upthrow into a Uair string (no shorthop since the Uair will send them high enough).

    So the combo starting at low % is Cargo Upthrow, regrab > repeat until mid 20%, Uair > regrab (Fox/Falco) or more aerials

    *video*

    Cargo Upthrow at ~100%+:

    Basically when you can only get one hit after your throw because you know they'll be sent too far from an Uair. At these percents you can follow their DI into an Upsmash, sweetspot Up B, or Fair. These are all great KO finishers. Upsmash works until about 120%+ and Fair requires you to short hop in your cargo throw at %s closer to 100.

    So the combo is Cargo Upthrow, dash Upsmash (dash if they DI) / Cargo Upthrow, dash Up B / Cargo short hop Upthrow, short hop Fair / Cargo up throw, full hop Fair (higher %s).

    Cargo Full Hop Upthrow double jump Fair/Giant Punch:

    Pretty simple finisher. It works at even higher percents, like 120%+. The timing is pretty tight and you have to react quickly to the opponents DI.You can also op to do a Cargo Upthrow to immediate full hop Fair/Giant Punch.

    *video*

    Vs "Average" Fallers
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Cargo Upthrow Uair:

    Just like with fast fallers, these average weight characters still get hit by Cargo Upthrow into an Uair.In these matchups you'll never need to short hop as you cargo throw, if anything it helps the opponent escape the Uair follow up (aka these characters go high enough from the throw). Immediately after the short hop Uair, you want to full hop Uair. After this, you can usually get another Uair in the same jump. Vs Sheik/Ganon/Link/Roy/Bowser/DK, you can jump up and Fair/Giant Punch after landing from the double Uair.

    Here's the combo- Cargo Upthrow, short hop Uair, full hop Uair, Uair > follow up

    *video*

    Cargo Full Hop Upthrow double jump Fair/Giant Punch:

    Pretty simple finisher. It works at higher percents, like 80%+. The timing is pretty tight and you have to react quickly to the opponents DI. You can also op to do a Cargo Upthrow to immediate full hop Fair/Giant Punch.

    *video*

    Cargo Full Hop Upthrow double jump Uair:

    This is useful since it let's you Uair opponents when already very high in the air. This leads to very easy vertical kills when opponents reach the 100% mark. You can also op to do a Cargo Upthrow to immediate full hop Uair but it doesn't kill as early.

    Vs Floaties
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Cargo Upthrow Full Hop Uair:

    After the Cargo Upthrow, you want to full hop Uair as quickly as possible. After this Uair, you can do another Uair or Up B (with the Up B, you can string multiple hits depending on their DI).

    *video*

    Cargo Full Hop Upthrow double jump Fair/Giant Punch:

    Pretty simple finisher. It works at higher percents, like 80%+. The timing is pretty tight and you have to react quickly to the opponents DI. You can also op to do a Cargo Upthrow to immediate full hop Fair/Giant Punch. This does not work on the Marios.

    *video*

    Vs Annoying *****
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Cargo Up Throw Uair:

    Basically the only thing you can do to them. It's still solid, I try to go for as many pummels as I can since I'll only get a Uair off the throw. Keep in mind this combo connects to higher %s such as 120%. This is a very useful KO combo, but you have to be very precise to hit them before they recover from hitstun on the throw.

    *video*
     
    #2 NJzFinest, Jan 4, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2014
    DestinNotDustin likes this.
  3. NJzFinest

    NJzFinest
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    *reserved for matchup discussion*
     
    #3 NJzFinest, Jan 4, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2014
  4. Strong Bad

    Strong Bad
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    Irreplaceable

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    Damages

    Jab1: 4 (All hitboxes, Frame 5-7)
    Jab2: 6 (All hitboxes, Frame 5-11)

    Dash Attack:
    Hitboxes on frame 9-12: 11 damage
    Hitboxes on frame 13-20: 9 damage

    Tilts:
    Up-Angled F-Tilt: 11 (All hitboxes, Frame 8-11)
    Normal F-Tilt: 10 (All hitboxes, Frame 8-11)
    Down-Angled F-Tilt: 9 (All hitboxes, Frame 8-11)
    Up-Tilt has 3 hitboxes. One does 9, one does 10, and one does 11. Knockback growth is 105, 110, and 115 respectively. There's no way I can visualize this at this time; in the future there might be a program to view hitboxes attached to DK's bones with proper offsets/sizes and hover to show hitbox data. Frame 6-11
    Down-Tilt: 7 (All hitboxes, Frame 6-9)

    Smashes:
    Forward Smash has 4 hitboxes.
    Hitbox 1: 20 damage (second biggest hitbox)
    Hitbox 2: 21 damage (biggest hitbox)
    Hitbox 3: 19 damage (second smallest hitbox)
    Hitbox 4: 18 damage (smallest hitbox)
    Frame 22-33

    Up-Smash: 18 damage (both hitboxes, Frame 14-16)
    head and arms have invincibility frame 12-16

    Down-Smash: uhhh
    one of his hands do 14 damage
    the other does 16
    Frame 10-13

    Aerials:

    Neutral Air:
    Hitboxes on frame 10-13: 12 damage
    Hitboxes on frame 14-26: 10 damage

    Forward-Air:
    Always 16. Wheee

    Back-Air:
    Hitboxes on frame 7-8: 13 damage
    Hitboxes on frame 9-15: 9 damage

    Up-Air: 14 damage

    Down-Air:
    Hitbox 1: 16 damage (biggest hitbox)
    Hitboxes 2 & 3: 13 damage

    Both get-up attacks: 6 damage

    >100% ledge-attack: 10 damage
    <100% ledge-attack: 8 damage

    Back-Throw: 11 damage
    Up-Throw: 9 damage
    Down-Throw: 7 damage
    Cargo-Forward-Throw: 8 damage
    Cargo-Back-Throw: 8 damage
    Cargo-Up-Throw: 7 damage
    Cargo-Down-Throw: 6 damage
    Cargo hold release: 10 damage

    Aerial & Grounded Uncharged Donkey Punch
    Shoulder: 12 damage
    Punch: 10 damage

    Fully Charged Donkey Punch
    Shoulder: 18 damage
    Punch: 30 damage

    Aerial Fully Charged Donkey Punch
    Shoulder: 16 damage
    Punch: 27 damage

    Forward B: 5 damage
    Aerial Forward-B: 10 damage

    Grounded Up-B Elbow Smack: 12 damage
    Grounded Up-B Body Smack?: 8 damage
    Arm-Spin hits: 3 damage

    Aerial Up-B Strong Hit: 10 damage
    Secondary strong hit?: 5 damage
    Arm-Spin hits: 2 damage

    Hand Slap: 11 damage
     
    DestinNotDustin likes this.
  5. otg

    otg
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    Very cool thread. While I don't main DK, I use him a ****load and have played him in a ton of friendlies/MM's vs. some of NY's finest for the last 3 years. I'll gladly contribute what I can and I plan on adding some notes once I finally get a chance to read through all this later.
     
  6. #HBC | Mac

    #HBC | Mac
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    Pretty sick thread. While I don't main DK, I use him every once in a while and have played him in multiple random and 26 character MMs vs. some of the best scrubs at my school for the last 2 years. I'll gladly contribute what every bull**** I can and I plan on adding some genius jank **** once i finally get a chance to skim through all of this later.
     
  7. NJzFinest

    NJzFinest
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    Dope, I'm down for using as much knowledge you guys have to share ^^

    Otg, I totally forgot you used DK. You also play against Phish-it and/or Kwan if I'm not mistaken, so I'd love to get your input. I mean, only thing I ever disagreed with you ever is like, YLink ****** DK lol.
     
  8. otg

    otg
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    Smash Master

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    Yedi's a godamn genius.

    I still think Y. Link rapes DK, but only if their from cambodia
     
  9. KirbyKaze

    KirbyKaze
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    In my experience, beyond jank combos, Dair's main use is vs characters like Marth and Sheik when they recover onstage in recovery lag.
     
  10. Strong Bad

    Strong Bad
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    jank combos include but not limited to cargo uthrow to a platform -> dair tech-chase

    EDIT: oh, looks like NJz already put that in the guide. cool.

    typically, ledgehop fair/dair (% depending) are the main responses to onstage recovery vs. Marth/Sheik, yes.
     
  11. KirbyKaze

    KirbyKaze
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    Since its main use is punishment of laggy onstage recovery, I thought it would be worth putting that into the move's description.
     
  12. otg

    otg
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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is pretty standard. Not really too much jank to be found in DK's dair. His uair, dtilt, ftilt and nair tho? Jank machine.
     
  13. KirbyKaze

    KirbyKaze
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    Can DK do a Sheik thing where you like jump Dair and then drift to a side to cover 3/4 tech options?

    Or is his Dair not out long enough for that?

    Or can you cover all those options with minimal drifting because his foot is big?

    Monkeys fascinate me.
     
  14. MEXICAN

    MEXICAN
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    DK's d air is also good against ganon/falcon when they are recovering. You can purposely get grabbed by their up b, wall tech/jump into a d air, and they really can't do anything about it other than try to meteor cancel, which you can still hit them again in your second jump (since their up b is technically a grab and not a hit, you get your second jump back even if you already used it). F air unfortunately, hits them back onto the stage generally. B air would be a reverse b air and can be done into an up b, but it's a little more difficult to kill that way. N air, depending on their damage, can be done into an up b as well, but safest and best chance to kill is usually d air
     
  15. MEXICAN

    MEXICAN
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    I also wanted to add, that I sometimes use dk's f smash to punish miss rests or broken shields if I want to keep my fully charged giant punch. If I know I'll get the ko either way, then I might as well save my charge and not make my giant punch stale. And if I'm NOT going to get the kill, then there's only a difference of 3% between a fully charged f smash and a fully charged giant punch, and I'd rather have my giant punch handy still since I might not have time to fully charge again before they make it back to the stage, or i want to be able to edgeguard them and not worry about my giant punch being charged. I only use the giant punch when it's borderline and I think that i MIGHT be able to get a ko and a f smash won't do it.

    Also, on the dash attack, I also use it for tech chasing sometimes because if they just stand up, and i try to grab, if i mistime it, i get punished. If they do a get up attack, i get hit away when i try to grab. However, if i use the dash attack, it stays out long enough to still hit them if they just stand up. And, if they do a get up attack, it'll clank with their get up attack a lot of times and your lag gets cancelled out and you can just grab immediately afterward and you've got yourself a free grab....The dash attack relies on clanking and exchanging a lot, but if/when it does, it pays off pretty well
     
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  16. Strong Bad

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    Fully charged F-Smash: 2 seconds + some change.
    Fully Charged Donkey Punch: 17 frames.

    Yeah, I'd rather have a 17-frame Donkey Punch after they're able to move again.

    My thoughts on dash attack: It's not something to use often against good players. As MEXICAN said, it has its uses, however much like any trick that a lower-tiered character has in his arsenal, it has the drawback of being punishable if it's predicted. Your opponent will adapt to your use of Dash Attack and punish you for it if you try to use it often. Try it out for yourself and make the call as to whether or not you're going to include it in your repertoire.
     
  17. NJzFinest

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    added***

    Anything else on aerials? Shall I move onto special moves?
     
  18. MEXICAN

    MEXICAN
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    There are more uses for the n air. It's also good for comboing and edgeguarding in different ways from how Bum used it. A rising n air that hits with the back part of the n air gives you a free move after. I use it when someone tries to recover high because it stays out longer than the b air and it gives you a free b air after you hit with it anyway. I believe, depending on your opponents di, you can even do a rising n air into a giant punch. I try to hit with the back part of the n air at the end of the attack. N air has less lagg than the n air, so you can do an attack almost immediately after the n air hits. One other use is when someone lands on a platform and is at high damage, i'll jump to where they're at and n air, so if they wake up when i am in the middle of my attack, they get hit and go flying off stage setting up an edgeguard. It's an almost guaranteed hit, and although other attacks may kill, they are also a lot harder to hit with. Sometimes i like the higher risk, sometimes i like the guaranteed hit. Granted, i'm also fairly confident about my edgeguarding.
     
  19. Strong Bad

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    might want to mention you can ledgehop nair, bair, or uair -> ledge regrab.
    it has marginal uses.
     
  20. MEXICAN

    MEXICAN
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    Ehh...I've really never found that useful. lol, but yeah...doesn't hurt to have it in there though. lol
     
  21. Fried Ice Cream

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    When you're talking about Special moves, I think a great thing for new players to know about neutral B is how its ridiculous range is a great help for tech chasing. I have gotten sooo many kills by just punching their techs/rolls, it just extends that far out. I can write a bit more on neutral B if you'd like, it's one of my favourite moves :).
     
  22. MEXICAN

    MEXICAN
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    I'm pretty sure we'll get it covered. There's a lot to write about the Giant punch. I could probably write a whole guide JUST on the Giant punch. lol
     
  23. NJzFinest

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    been busy, update coming soon
     
  24. NJzFinest

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    *** ok guys, let's talk about some kong specials
     
  25. ChivalRuse

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    Approaching with neutral b cancels is a great way to bait shields and get a free grab. :bee:
     
  26. Strong Bad

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    spinning kong is so good
    giant punch is so good
    did you know if you have a fully charged giant punch you can ledgehop giant punch ledge regrab?
    best thing ever in teams is to ledgehop giant punch one enemy then edgehog the other.
    raaaaape
     
  27. ChivalRuse

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    I always hated how if you go offstage to land a punch, you can't make it back.

    Whaaaack. Give us back SSB64 punch! :c
     
  28. Strong Bad

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    did someone say project m?
    er wait this is a DK guide dev thread, I'll spam PM stuff elsewhere
     
  29. TJ Infinat

    TJ Infinat
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    Smash Ace

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    something I use neutral b for (and this is unorthadox and close to useless in general play) it to change up the way I'm facing mid air. you can get more range from your bair by running forward, jumping and then charging in the opposite direction, canceling to a bair.
     
  30. ChivalRuse

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    ^ Yes, that's very common nowadays. Take MEXICAN's DK for example.
     
  31. NJzFinest

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    I think I'mma get pictures for each move.

    I showed this guide to a friend and he couldn't picture the moves since he's soooo not found of DK xD

    I'mma keep going on with more sections once school is less lame. Snow days = piles and piles of work.
     
  32. ChivalRuse

    ChivalRuse
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    Whoa. I actually forgot DK was a character in this game. I've been so busy figuring stuff out about Zelda lately. Lol.
     
  33. Strong Bad

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    At what speed do you want animated gifs of hitboxes? 1/2 speed, 1/3 speed, 1/4?
    I'll probably be able to add some information/input on most of the moves later on today since I'm not /too/ busy. Do you want insight into DK in Doubles, or only singles?
     
  34. ChivalRuse

    ChivalRuse
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    Smash Hero

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    1/4 Speed is probably the best.

    I personally think DK is horrible in doubles, but that's only from like a few matches of me experimenting. Lol.
     
  35. Strong Bad

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    He isn't good.
    I mean, I don't know what you were expecting from Donkey Kong, he isn't radically different if 4 players are playing to where he isn't a bad character... there's still team dynamics in play that make some things viable that aren't in singles, and vice versa.
     
  36. ChivalRuse

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    I was referring to him being a huge target and getting ***** by random hitboxes more often in teams.
     
  37. Strong Bad

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    It happens, yeah. He does have some things going for him though. Waiting on NJ's response on whether or not he wants those.
     
  38. Strong Bad

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    Some information from the lab
    takes 127 frames to fully charge a Giant Punch, meaning there are 7 frames in which you are vulnerable if you start charging from respawn. if they're close I suggest you count his arm's spin 9 times and shield and keep a 9 charge for a bit.

    I'm making animated .gifs of every move btw; my old images were lower quality so I just decided to completely redo them. I'm going to edit DK's file to where he doesn't fall at all so we can avoid hitbox drag due to character movement for more accurate hitboxes. Aerial Up-B and his 5 aerials are all I have left.

    EDIT: I forgot Dash Attack, Rolls, Air Dodge, and Spotdodge. Good news is that I got 0 grav donkey kong working and the hitboxes for all of his aerials and both versions of Up-B have been collected. Good ****!
    EDIT: Collected the rest of the images. Compiling now.
     
  39. ChivalRuse

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    Amsah does needle charge -> cancel -> grab a lot - from my limited experience playing him before and after Pound V. (I know I've mentioned this before but) I feel like DK can use similar tricks occasionally.
     
  40. Strong Bad

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    Aerial or grounded needle charge?
     

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