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(GUIDE) Punishing Rest as Marth

guffawkle

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 7, 2017
Messages
5
Location
Oregon
Yes, I wrote an entire guide on punishing a single move, rest. It seemed necessary given the general lack of knowledge and my impression from an earlier thread about optimal rest punishes, so I might as well share what I know.

For reference, most of this information relies on http://ikneedata.com/calculator, so you can indirectly thank Schmooblidon and GentleFox for the data. Note that V-cancelling and move staling are not accounted for here, and would marginally raise the percents listed. This guide will assume that you are playing against Hungrybox.


NEVER PUNISH A WHIFFED REST WITH FORWARD SMASH! A fully charged tipper can be Amsah teched below 52%. There are much better options at Marth's disposal.

Tipper dsmash cannot be teched, and kills at around 40-50%. On the other hand, Marth's shieldbreaker doesn't have to be tipped at all and kills earlier in most cases. Shieldbreaker's knockback is higher than that of dsmash at and above these percents, but can be Amsah teched below 40%.

From the moment Puff rests, you have just over two seconds to start charging shieldbreaker in order to reach full charge before she gets out of lag. Because of it's low risk of missing, it is almost always the option that should be used at 42% and upwards to punish a whiffed rest. It is not a guaranteed kill on Dreamland till around 48%, but works on all other stages. 42% is the earliest at which a fully charged shieldbreaker cannot be Amsah teched by Puff. The tipper hitbox of shieldbreaker is slightly better, unable to be teched at 40%, so in this small range it is best to either position a tipper shieldbreaker, or use tipper dsmash depending on stage and skill. The second hit of dsmash launches at an angle 5 degrees higher but is slightly harder to set up, so again, it is up to your skill and stage knowledge whether you use hit 1 or 2.

On Yoshi's Story, charged tipper dsmash is a guaranteed kill at 35%, which goes down to 25% on top platform. For all other stages besides Dreamland, dsmash can kill off of poor DI at around 30%, so unless your combo will likely net a kill, dsmash is the best choice for the 30-40% range. Against someone less skilled, shieldbreaker may be a good option as well. Also, smash charge is more important than their DI, so if you try and surprise the Puff by not charging a dsmash, it is less likely to kill. Below 30% You will not likely be able to kill Puff, but it is always worth trying. dthrow or maybe even fthrow near the ledge could get you a spike, or a tipper fsmash, but that's mostly it if they know what DI is.

Surprisingly, positioning yourself to launch Puff towards the closest blast zone doesn't make much difference. It is far more important to begin charging or find tipper spacing than moving to the opposite side of your opponent to kill off the side of the stage closest to you. Of course, it does make a slight difference at the lowest kill percents (30-50%), but is probably the least important factor when punishing rest.

Now when the rest lands...

If you die off the top, please don't bother trying, you cannot punish. However, if you go off the side blast zone fast enough there are a few options. Uncharged tipper fsmash can be Amsah teched below a ridiculous 86%, so that is a last resort for when Puff is either at high percents or on a platform, depending on the stage. Uncharged dsmash kills at 55% on Yoshi's, about 68% on most others, all the way to 81% on Dreamland. Usmash kills only slightly later then dsmash, so if you're willing to try, it may be a better option than fsmash for when Puff is on a platform and cannot be tipper dsmashed, although this is stage specific.


And that is every remotely important detail needed to OBLITERATE JIGGLYPUFF as punishment for getting lazy and dozing off. This should also give you a general idea of Marth's strongest moves and when an opponent can survive them.

May good fortune follow my fellow Marth mains
 

guffawkle

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 7, 2017
Messages
5
Location
Oregon
Is the 42% figure regardless of how stale shield breaker is, or is it assuming some amount of staling?
No, I made this clear in the opening of my post. In all likelihood you wont stale it enough to change the tech percent by more than 2. Just use tipper shieldbreaker and it'll be fine. V-cancel raises it by 4% though, so given all the factors, realize that you may not always kill in the 40-50% range.
 
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