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Ground breaking new Ic ability or monstrosity you decide

Snipa4800

Smash Lord
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Aug 3, 2008
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Ft.lauderdale
Original video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8n87h7TAXk

Fusion is enabled when you perform side-b on the fram Nana would enter it and she is incapable of doing it.
So far aside from grabs , only electric projectiles and metaknights tornado have been able to enable the fused state.
Up-b and Side-b Defuse the Iceclimbers.


While in the fused state if your opponent grabs Nana the teleportation glitch occurs.If they jump linear from nana to where the game thinks shes recovering , they will teleport underneath the stage.
Once grabbed Nana will be in a constant fall.

Chaingrabbing IS possible while fused.

Fusion application by Smoom*
Fusin with Metaknights tornado - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTN7DJhVPeE
Fusion being performed real time - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbIKEeg7Fwk
Chaingrabbing while fused- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk6qFVK8Wh0
Tricks- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t70WKbwgYE
Fusion on rainbow cruise - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLkEDv8ey14
 

JustNoOne

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
1,537
OMG running blizzard!

If someone can find out how this is done and I can use it in tourneys I would place ICs again ^.^
 

X-FACTOR

Smash Journeyman
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Orlando, FL ---- HomeTown: Boston, MA
Pretty Interesting Snipa.

Something like this happened to me as well, but I wasn't sure what it was.
I've had Nana stuck to me in a free fall state and it totally glitched everything.

I have a couple saves, but there on my friends Wii. I do hope we can expand on this, seeing as IC have major "glitch potential."

But then of course anything glitchy would probaly be banned...meh. -_-

But cool find btw!
 

Zero Hour

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 14, 2009
Messages
87
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New York
This seems awesome... i wonder if this would take more or less time to ban then the infinite cape glitch.
 

Smoom77

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
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Location
Provo, UT
That's so interesting! I've seen this before, but not sure where. In that video, they didn't do anything with it. This could take our ICs to a new level.

I was talking with Cheese, the ICs from AiB and he says that you can activate it when someone grabs nana. You immediately squall.

You can't even imagine all the possibilities with this. Nana:blizzard>Popo: grab>repeat
 

ch33s3

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
1,756
I do post here too, Smoom, lol. But yea, any time you sideb on the same frame as nana would enter a state where she cannot squall, you get this glitch. There's not TOO much you can do, as far as I've seen. Some funky stuff with dsmash and blizzard, all of your attacks can be perfectly synched, and you can't get gimped. That's about all I've seen.
 

Smoom77

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My opinion on this still is that you're acting like all our attacks can be perfectly synced and you can't get gimped is a bad thing! If Hylian and Swordgard looked more into this, I think we can do something. One person (no offense) isn't going to get us anywhere with this. And even though in the video it seems impossible to CG, maybe it is possible. We just have to find out what MAKES it possible.

And I still can't get it to work...

Edit: We have to think of a new playstyle. If we're to play with Nana like this, we're not playing the same but that doesn't mean we're going downhill.
 

Tesh

Smash Hero
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Could be useful in teams eh? Don't you have to force something to hit you precisely for this to happen? A teammate could do that for you.
Besides, you won't get away with CGing for long in teams right?
 

Snipa4800

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
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any time you sideb on the same frame as nana would enter a state where she cannot squall, you get this glitch.
Very usefull information , now I know it has nothing to do with her getting hit from above.

I do post here too, Smoom, lol. But yea, There's not TOO much you can do, as far as I've seen.
Are you kidding? A running blizzard means if the side step , roll or don't see it coming they're hit. If they sheild it they're grabbed ( useful assuming some form of chaingrab or grab follow up is found , perhaps a grab release.)

It completely removes the threat of someone killing nana.

If theres someway to diffuse once you get the grab or find a way to cg them , once you grab them in the fused state its unbelievably broken.
 

ch33s3

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
1,756
The easiest way to get a feel for this (which sadly I can't do atm...one controller johns), is to have someone (or yourself if youre particularly dextrous), grab nana while you sideb, after a couple of tries you'll be able to do it everytime and play with it.

EDIT: Got a way to do it working. Stand across FD from falco. Have him laser, and face away. Dash just as it's about to hit you and sideb. You'll get stuck together.

EDIT 2: OKAY THE ICS ARE BROKEN! Hide this now! You CAN CG with this in effect. You lose all visual cues, but the timing is identical.

EDIT 3: The timing is a little different, but I successfully 0-death'd Falco. Bthrow to Nana, and then fthrow to Popo.

EDIT 4: I will try to get a video (somehow) up after school tomorrow.

EDIT 5: You can also cause that faraway camera glitch where nana just keeps upbing over and over, not sure on the conditions of that. It's REALLY bad if that happens, though. If you die during the stupid upb thing, though, you come back fused.

EDIT 6: Everytime you "desynch" while fused and the game thinks nana should dash without you, the camera shifts slightly in the direction she would have dashed.
 

The Truth!

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 5, 2009
Messages
991
Well this sucks. Make sure to test if the opponent can do stuff to get them out of it.

Looks pretty cool though.
 

EverAlert

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This is ridiculously easy to set up with the frame data code. From what I can tell it only works with Squall, not Belay for some reason. My theory is more or less that, if Nana is interrupted on the frame she is meant to stick to Popo, the game won't process the unsticking like normal and cause constant stickiness (Edit: I've tested a little further and as long as Nana is stuck to Popo, if you hit only her it will cause this glitch, even during the middle of Squall). Also I feel "sticking" is a more appropriate name for this than "fusion," since Nana's just attached to Popo permanently, not actually fused with him, they're not permanently synched or anything.

I don't see TOO much of a playstyle change from this. Basically Nana is stuck to you so she can't get launched but she still has her delay and whatnot so normal desynching etc. doesn't change, also certain circumstances can still cause desync-esque animation effects.

Popo can constantly spotdodge while only Nana attacks, makes them almost invincible lol.

Running Blizzard is going to break some matchups, especially Falco's (more than it already is).

POPO getting grabbed causes Nana's whole "constantly Belay" thing. Not sure what else does, it's only happened to me when Popo's been grabbed so far (Edit: It's happened to me kinda randomly when not being grabbed, still not sure what else causes it). I believe we may be able to reset Nana after this if we can somehow make her come in contact with the ground, haven't pulled it off though. Edit: It's not possible to make her touch the ground, the game thinks she's offstage, slightly under one of the stage's tetherable ledges (chosen seemingly at random, possibly the most nearby one? it tends to change as you move around..), which is why she is constantly in her falling animation/trying to belay.
--
Additionally, the opponent will TELEPORT (!) when trying to footstool Nana during this state. How this works depends on the stage, but generally either they will footstool real-Nana and warp offstage (happens on FD), or can footstool fake/offstage-Nana and warp onto real-Nana (Yoshi's Brawl). Occasionally I've also gotten the former to happen on stages where the latter happens by hitting them at the same time they footstool Nana, they warp offstage and then take knockback from the hit. Both teleports have advantages, former obviously puts them in a really bad position (sometimes insta-killing if Nana gets footstooled while she's jumping out offstage), latter can be taken advantage of by doing an attack with Popo and hitting them as they warp onto Nana.

Nana tripping is completely nullified, although she goes through a few animation shenanigans after a trip.

Dying doesn't reset the stickiness state.

Easy way to unstick: Belay or Squall.
Quick/Widely Practical way to unstick: ?
Other Ways to unstick: Nana footstooling opponent.

Easy way to stick: Get hit (lol).

Getting hit during this makes it look like only Nana is on the playfield haha (until you do something or their idle animations desync).

From what I can tell so far (not extensively tested it yet) the only thing the opponent can do to get you out of this is to force you into a situation where you need to recover. Edit: Grabbing Nana and throwing her away from Popo unsticks them.

There are more things I took note of that I can't think of atm, I'll post again later.

EDIT: Moar shiz.

For some reason Nana will randomly jump out of the stickiness, which will cause her to turn 90 degrees but otherwise be controllable normally (not sure how it affects hitboxes though), when Popo faces left Nana is facing the camera, when Popo is facing right Nana faces away from the camera. I've had it done sometimes when Popo's been grabbed, and also when engaging an opponent (taking hits/giving hits). She also jumps extremely high like a footstool. Theory: Nana is footstooling Popo.

Other fun stuff you can do: Midair Taunting, Popo is holding the ledge while Nana is taunting or doing other actions in midair. Moonwalking, Nana is dashing forward while Popo rolls back. Midair Walking, not sure what's going on but I'm guessing only Popo gets hit by a move so Nana stays in her standing animation while sticking to him, allowing her to "walk" in midair as he's launched.

Also grounded Blizzard doesn't face both directions anymore while stuck.



Oh boy, how I love new toys...
 

swordgard

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I got a small idea on how we could make this work ina match, il test it out later.



Hint:This could maybe solve ics number 1 problem in the game.
 

Smoom77

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I finally got it this morning. You can also b-throw>d-throw. But you have to dash to get the d-throw now.

I've got it about 25% of the time when you do it with Falco's laser. That's much easier.
 

swordgard

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Im thinking of using this on brinstar with bungie jumping(nanas invincibility will run out just after you can let go of the ledge, you both get off and side b on first frame, popo still invincible, nana gets hit).
 

Smasher89

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If this gets an easy method I might consider dropping snake in teams XD

EDIT: wasn't this the same find like the fall through FDglitch something a copuple of months ago?
 

Snipa4800

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EDIT 2: OKAY THE ICS ARE BROKEN! Hide this now! You CAN CG with this in effect. You lose all visual cues, but the timing is identical.

EDIT 3: The timing is a little different, but I successfully 0-death'd Falco. Bthrow to Nana, and then fthrow to Popo.
Good ****! Can't wait to see it , im gonna play around with it more to see if I can get it.

Also I feel "sticking" is a more appropriate name for this than "fusion," since Nana's just attached to Popo permanently, not actually fused with him, they're not permanently synched or anything.
I don't like the terms "sticking" and "unsticking" , fusion and diffusion are much more badass.
Great research none the less e_alert keep working at it.
I wanna see this constant nana up-b glitch.

Lets make iceclimbers top tier guys.
 

ch33s3

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The Brinstar thing sounds legit, I bet Halberd's laser could be used, as well as other stuff. I'm going to play around with platforms to see if forcing her out of range on purpose then sideb, could get her to stick. Will report back. Also, bthrow/fthrow alts are REALLY easy when stuck.
 

Baro

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This has happened to me before. I didn't once think replicating it consistently was possible.
 

momochuu

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Man, not only do they have desynching, but they have fusing/defusing. This is great. I have the debug code too. I'll research what I can.
 

The Truth!

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Someone should find out if theres an easy way to do this against Snake (or Rob, or any difficult matchup). Seems like something that could change that match-up a lot.
 

Firestormzero0

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omg guys this so is so much fun lol. So i was playin around with this new "Fusion" thing. aannndd.. ok so when you grab, bthrow so nana has hold of the opponent. you can actually jump while grabbing them. just spam jump during the animation of the bthrow. lol. u can do a nice Fair with popo in the air. haha.

and i dont know how i did it but randomly nana did jump and faced 90 degrees just like e_alert had said. So first thing i did was grab with popo and try to fsmash falco while holding on to him. well.. nana did a fsmash but it doesnt do much damage. sometimes 1% sometimes none. so yeah. hitbox is all kinds of messed up but still none the less funny.

also. another way to unstick of diffuse is to footstool ur opponent but only if the opponent is standing there in place. after you two foot stool them. nana will randomly teleport and foot stool them again.

Edit: and for some reason if you time it just right. if your jumping while grabbing the opponent and have popo do a blizzard. nana will freeze. it looks like she is stuck at the first frame of a grab release animation. there is no way to fix it except by dying or getting hit or hitting ur opponent. u cant squall and fix it nor belay.

Edit2: nvm you dont have to jump while grabbing ur opponent and blizzard to get nana to freeze. if you bthrow so she has the enemy the make her do dthrow same time you do blizzard so all of the blizzard hits the enemy then she will freeze in a grab release animation.
 

Yink

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Wow, what a cool discovery. These guys will keep shooting up in the tiers if people do this. I don't complain, I use them too. Good job Snipa for looking into this and for anyone else who did an even more in-depth look to it.
 

Zeallyx

Fox mains get all the girlz
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omg guys this so is so much fun lol. So i was playin around with this new "Fusion" thing. aannndd.. ok so when you grab, bthrow so nana has hold of the opponent. you can actually jump while grabbing them. just spam jump during the animation of the bthrow. lol. u can do a nice Fair with popo in the air. haha.

and i dont know how i did it but randomly nana did jump and faced 90 degrees just like e_alert had said. So first thing i did was grab with popo and try to fsmash falco while holding on to him. well.. nana did a fsmash but it doesnt do much damage. sometimes 1% sometimes none. so yeah. hitbox is all kinds of messed up but still none the less funny.

also. another way to unstick of diffuse is to footstool ur opponent but only if the opponent is standing there in place. after you two foot stool them. nana will randomly teleport and foot stool them again.

Edit: and for some reason if you time it just right. if your jumping while grabbing the opponent and have popo do a blizzard. nana will freeze. it looks like she is stuck at the first frame of a grab release animation. there is no way to fix it except by dying or getting hit or hitting ur opponent. u cant squall and fix it nor belay.

Edit2: nvm you dont have to jump while grabbing ur opponent and blizzard to get nana to freeze. if you bthrow so she has the enemy the make her do dthrow same time you do blizzard so all of the blizzard hits the enemy then she will freeze in a grab release animation.
Things like he mentioned in his edit(s) will probably get this banned anyway.
Just stick with CG's and you'll get the job done, too :bee:
 

Funen1

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Talk about a breakthrough. But I wonder, are projectiles the only way to fuse the ICs? I could almost see disjointed hitboxes working too (disjointed since the character has to hit the ICs without getting hit himself), though I haven't tried anything with this yet.
 

Firestormzero0

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ok also. about the whole footstool teleport thing. yes as e_alert had said when ur opponent footstools nana while she is blinking cuz she tried to belay. the camera will shift. now on FD the opponent will teleport either underneath the lip on whatever side nana supposevly fell off of. or underneath the IC's themselves. i havnt quite figured out how to determine where there going to teleport yet.

Now another interesting thing about this is. when the opponent gets teleported underneath the stage he still has the jump momentum of the original footstool. and then he has 2 more jumps. and then as long as nana is still in her falling animation or belay animation ur opponent has unlimited little jumps. its crazy. so basically when i was footstooling nana while i was falco. even tho i was in the magnify glass i still made it back to the ledge with all the extra jumps i had. lol. but remember. they only have those jumps as long as nana is NOT blinking.
 

momochuu

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Debug Pause:-(GCC)
80000000 805B8A08
0402E5AC 8819000B
4A000000 804DE470
38000000 EFFF1000
86410000 00000001
E2000001 00000000
4A000000 805B8A08
3A000002 00FF0000
12000002 00000001
E2000001 00000000
4A000000 804DE470
38000000 FFEF0010
4A000000 805B8A08
3A000002 FF000000
12000002 00000100
E2000002 00000000

Button Modifier:
041E6CD8 4BE1C128
041E6D1C 4BE1C114
06002E00 00000068
9421FF80 BC410008
7CE4402E 7CE738F8
7CE73039 3864FFC0
7CE3412E 7CC4412E
B8410008 38210080
60000000 481E3EB0
9421FF80 BC410008
7C03202E 3DC01000
7DCE70F8 7C007039
740E0408 3DE00408
7C0E7800 40820008
64001000 B8410008
38210080 481E3EBC


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