Greninja's True Combos

[SuperSmashKing009]

I just found out today that Perfect Pivot Uptilt leads into an upsmash that spikes and then follow up with a Dtilt and another upsmash. This is tested with ZSS starting at 40-43%.

 

[Camdalf]

KEEP IT COMING!!

 

[Ludiloco]

Not sure if anyone else has pointed this out, but I've had a lot of success with d-tilt --> dash attack --> Fair at low to mid % (didn't see it on the list). Best to throw this out at low % because if the opponent has time to tech this is not a true combo. At high % this stops working because the opponent is getting popped up too high by the d-tilt. In those cases though, what are you doing not going for up smash? lol

 

[mikey661]

As a Greninja main, I thank you.

Now, I can style to victory with my friends.

 

[RedBeefBaron]

good **** OP and everyone else contributing. Solid, well explained, well organized information like this really helps rising greninjas figure out what they need to practice to be able to function at the top level. I'll definitely be keeping an eye on this thread.

One thing that was mentioned earlier in the thread is the way that skilled perfect pivoting can turn greninja into an absolute monster, I've been screwing around with that a bit and I've found one strong option in particular, SH crossup autocancel nair to PP dash grab. This really forces shield grab happy characters like diddy to play better defense because if you block the nair crossup greninja can often just whip around for the grab. Seeing as the nair and the grab can both lead into more damage this seems pretty legit, and mixups like that are always pretty demoralizing when executed correctly. And I'm confident that someone with better hands then me could come up with a lot of other crazy **** off of PP.

One other post from earlier was asking about the uair spike? if someone could explain how that is landed and the proper way to followup I would greatly appreciate that; i wasn't even aware uair spike was a thing until reading this thread.

EDIT: The information thread explained the way up air can spike if you fast fall quick enough that the last two hits don't connect. Any videos or tips on converting this to more damage?

 

[Coffee™]

One thing that was mentioned earlier in the thread is the way that skilled perfect pivoting can turn greninja into an absolute monster, I've been screwing around with that a bit and I've found one strong option in particular, SH crossup autocancel nair to PP dash grab. This really forces shield grab happy characters like diddy to play better defense because if you block the nair crossup greninja can often just whip around for the grab. Seeing as the nair and the grab can both lead into more damage this seems pretty legit, and mixups like that are always pretty demoralizing when executed correctly. And I'm confident that someone with better hands then me could come up with a lot of other crazy **** off of PP.

This is a pretty good concept. The only issue I see with grab specifically is the fact that in that scenario your opponent will either tend to Jab or Grab themselves in an attempt to take advantage to Nair's landing or it's hit on shield. Jab and Dtilt are preobabaly better options in the scenario due to them being faster moves overall.

The concept of buffering PP moves after his aerials sounds solid though.

One other post from earlier was asking about the uair spike? if someone could explain how that is landed and the proper way to followup I would greatly appreciate that; i wasn't even aware uair spike was a thing until reading this thread.

EDIT: The information thread explained the way up air can spike if you fast fall quick enough that the last two hits don't connect. Any videos or tips on converting this to more damage?

Keep in mind the Uair spike can be tech'd by your opponent so at higher levels of play it becomes quite hard to do as it's more dependent on your opponent missing the tech but you got pretty much any move as a followup if they land and don't.

 

[RedBeefBaron]

The only issue I see with grab specifically is the fact that in that scenario your opponent will either tend to Jab or Grab themselves in an attempt to take advantage to Nair's landing or it's hit on shield. Jab and Dtilt are preobabaly better options in the scenario due to them being faster moves overall.

If Greninja is already fairly close, he can short hop over the opponent so if they shield the nair, they are facing the wrong way to punish with shield or jab. Greninja can still pivot for his grab on landing, could he do this fast enough to punish the shield against a good player? I'm sure if you were really expecting it you could escape but Greninja's SH game can be really confusing. Jab or d-tilt would be the better option out of SH nair without the cross up though.

 

[shedinja33]

this will be useful for me, thanks!

 

[Eji1700]

First, haven't played since last year and am on 3ds

What's up with the first hit of bair? It seems like at certain percentages if you hit with the first hit only it can stun your opponent long enough to get you a follow up, possibly a smash. Note that the situation I'm talking about is vs a standing opponent

 

[David Galanos]

I haven't tested any of this, and I'm pretty positive it isn't a true combo, but I was playing friendlies with Doom Bot, a top level player in GA, and I saw him do jab jab, to short hop down air. I think it's just kind of a gimmicky thing that he can do.

 

[Johnniewalkker]

Wow didn't know you can follow up fc water shuriken with grab

 

[bc1910]

First, haven't played since last year and am on 3ds

What's up with the first hit of bair? It seems like at certain percentages if you hit with the first hit only it can stun your opponent long enough to get you a follow up, possibly a smash. Note that the situation I'm talking about is vs a standing opponent

They won't be stunned long enough for a smash attack. However at high percents (130%+) you can follow up with Utilt -> Uair for a true kill combo.

 

[InvaderSkoodge]

I have been experimenting with Greninja lately, this can be tested, but up-throw to up-smash works at 0% only on fast fallers reliably. This is with both blades, and does 24-25%. I think it is almost inescapable for fastfallers. Floatier characters can escape. This seems to be only at, or very close to 0%. Again double check, but it seems fairly solid to me.

If they DI badly, you can get a second up-smash too, but don't count on it. I am using a 3ds, so a c-stick might make it easier to do. When I tested against CPU, only a lvl 9 Fox could escape, and that is frame perfect air dodge and DI, so the enemy has to expect this, which is an uncommon option.

 

[Ludiloco]

Thank you InvaderSkoodge , there will be plenty of snacks as a reward for your discovery.

Yes, up throw to up smash does tend to work pretty well at 0 on several common characters, so it's worth knowing for that reason alone. I prefer to start off my matches with up throw and wait, however. If you observe their habits and get an air dodge, it's a free up-tilt into up smash. If they jump, next time you go up with the up air.

 

[InvaderSkoodge]

Up-throw to up-air is one of the reasons that I think battlefield is one of best stages for greninja, extremely early kills form platforms (along with shadow sneak tech). After reading this thread, and watching, I think greninja has some of the greatest potential yet to be seen, because he is so momentum based, and many of his combos require decent reading to execute, but I expect to see some dedicated players change the opinions of the character in the community.

In addition, a lot of his combos require matchup specific knowledge, so a lot of potential is guarded by knowledge and skill, and the game is only half a year old now.

 

[AlphaAustin]

This was incredibly useful. Thanks to all who were involved and the poster!

 

[Baby_Sneak]

here's one of mine: sweetspotted Nair > Dtilt > Upthrow > Upsmash

 

[Neil.]

Off topic but i'd advise everybody to get in their last few running shadow sneaks because come tomorrow...they're gone :[

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Off topic but i'd advise everybody to get in their last few running shadow sneaks because come tomorrow...they're gone :[

How do you know?

 

[FullMoon]

Because Running Shadow Sneak was already removed in the 3DS version so obviously they're gonna do it on Wii U as well.

 

[momochuu]

nobody uses that anyway. even though its in the wii u version i've never seen anybody use it lol.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Because it's still underdeveloped.

 

[TTYK]

I may have had a breakthrough that will revive this dead thread. Before I get into this I warn you that these combos require extremely proficient footstooling, which even on my 2 month journey to master the 0-68% combo that was found a while back, I haven't completely mastered it. What I found while on this journey is a true kill combo as long as the opponent does not tech the D-air spikes. So basically, an extension of the dair footstool combo. I will post again when I have worked out all the kinks.

 

[Coffee™]

Dash Attack to Usmash is a thing on a few characters at low percents.

Another one I've been using is Dash Attack to sourspot Nair to Usmash. Depending on the character and percent you can sometimes toss in an Utilt before the Usmash.

 

[TTYK]

Dash Attack to Usmash is a thing on a few characters at low percents.

Another one I've been using is Dash Attack to sourspot Nair to Usmash. Depending on the character and percent you can sometimes toss in an Utilt before the Usmash.

Dash attack to U-Sm? At what percentages does this work? It would make Greninjas early game a lot stronger.

 

[Coffee™]

Dash attack to U-Sm? At what percentages does this work? It would make Greninjas early game a lot stronger.

I generally go for it between 0-20% but I don't know the exact ranges that it works. Have to look into it a bit more at some point.

 

[Ludiloco]

In the OP, I would argue that u-tilt -> up air doesn't really have a better alternative, at high % it is one of Greninja's easiest kill setups. Up tilt just has an ungodly amount of hitstun at high % for some reason, to the point where up air is almost guaranteed. I've gotten dozens of kills on almost all of the cast and varying degrees of skill. Meaning, if it's not true I haven't discovered a way to avoid it yet.

I've even played really good Luigis and his frame 3 nair hasn't been able to come out to beat it. The only thing I've found is Mewtwo's air dodge comes out fast enough to avoid it, but you can easily read that and wait to jump up with your up air.

 

[TTYK]

U air U smash is a great way to start at 0%

 

[MadCanard]

Has anyone compiled a list of true combos using Shifting Shuriken (custom neutral 3)?

There's no doubt this custom opens up a whole new can of true combo worms.

 

[bc1910]

In the OP, I would argue that u-tilt -> up air doesn't really have a better alternative, at high % it is one of Greninja's easiest kill setups. Up tilt just has an ungodly amount of hitstun at high % for some reason, to the point where up air is almost guaranteed. I've gotten dozens of kills on almost all of the cast and varying degrees of skill. Meaning, if it's not true I haven't discovered a way to avoid it yet.

I've even played really good Luigis and his frame 3 nair hasn't been able to come out to beat it. The only thing I've found is Mewtwo's air dodge comes out fast enough to avoid it, but you can easily read that and wait to jump up with your up air.

You can see in training mode that Utilt -> Uair is a true combo. If you do it fast enough, nothing will be able to come out fast enough to avoid it including Mewtwo's airdodge.

The only real option for the opponent is to DI. Greninja can follow DI in any direction to get the kill on reaction, but it's easier if you're able to read the direction they DI. The exception is if you hit with the back of the tongue at the very start of the move; it's a different part of the hitbox and the natural knockback here sends the opponent away from you. If they DI away, they can avoid an Uair follow-up. However you can still hit them with Bair.

Utilt -> Uair is one of the best kill confirms in the game because the opponent has literally no options to avoid it if your reactions are fast enough. It falls down because Utilt is a hard move to hit with, though. Still, there are times when it comes in handy as an anti-air because the tongue seems to be invincible.

 

[Deleted member]

@ MartinAW4 I was dissecting a certain frog in my lab today testing out perfect pivots and found a combo that isn't listed. If you perfect pivot so you are behind your opponent and do a Dtilt at the same time, you actually get a backwards hitbox that true combos into Bair! This is a kill confirm and a combo, although extremely situational since you have to be right in front of the opponent to perfect pivot behind them. Although this does cross up shields and you could try to catch landings with it. The percent values that this works on Shiek are 40%-270% and it deals 16% damage for a long time until you can only get the second+third or third hits, but at those percents it kills so whatever.

EDIT: I know that Nair -> Utilt true combos at higher percentages than the ones listed if you perfect pivot the Utilt, I'll edit the values into this post sometime tomorrow.

EDIT 2: Sweetspot Nair -> Perfect Pivot Utilt stops working at ~45% and Sourspot Nair -> Perfect Pivot Utilt stops working at ~67%. These percents are the highest I've gotten, but I could be a bit slow or not Perfect Pivot correctly when trying for higher percents, although I think I have it right. Also, these combo into Bair after the Utilt, which deals 22% (higher if you get all 3 hits instead of 2, but I haven't yet).
MartinAW4 hasn't been on since mid April, so will this thread temporarily change owners for editing purposes anytime soon?

 

[busken]

At around 80% d-tilt to back air becomes a true combo and does 4 hits with 16% damage. You have to perfect pivot into a buffered back air though for it to work. The timing is really strict, I don't think it will work on fast fallers and I haven't tested DI. Tested on Mario.

 

[PK Drako]

I was in the lab with greninja when i was trying to learn the spike of greninja.

Then i tried Dtilt near the edge to the enemy and then follow-up with a short hop Dair and it worked.

But i dont know if this is already discovered or tested, so can some please tell me if its true combo or a good combo?

 

[gyasim]

Its not a true combo, you can DI away from the down tilt.

 

[PK Drako]

Its not a true combo, you can DI away from the down tilt.

I know i tried but i think you can't airdodge.

 

[Ludiloco]

...But if you can DI away, the opponent is going to naturally do that a lot and that means if you try the dair you will fall to your death

There's just never a good time to try dair offstage. D tilt gives you so many better options.

 

[Lawliet626]

any combos for the new side tilt?

 

[Ludiloco]

Can confirm up tilt to up air still busted, I think that setup alone and up smash saves us from being mid tier

Was losing to a Sheik, I had 150+% and he had around 70 on T&C. He jumped above me and I randomly threw out up tilt, jumped up with up air got the KO like "Ok my bans are..." lol

I also KOed a Fox tonight on Dreamland at 58% with up smash. Half-charged on the lower platforms

 

[Coffee™]

I want to bump this thread to bring up some discussion on Greninja's "combos".

Watching most Greninja players these days, the japanese ones included it seems like most players don't really have a good grasp of what combos function as effective bnb and most players just tend to go for the more difficult combos in general in situations where other setups would score guaranteed damage.

I attribute this mostly to these more difficult strings being advertised highly when the game first came out, hence players tend to go for them more. However there are a lot more simple strings to be discussed with Greninja, particularly his low percent strings.

I've recently decided I want to invest a lot more time into the character as a solid secondary (maaaaaaybe main) so I'm going to try to get some more productive discussion going on so we can some more consistent results from the frog!

 

[FullMoon]

I want to bump this thread to bring up some discussion on Greninja's "combos".

Watching most Greninja players these days, the japanese ones included it seems like most players don't really have a good grasp of what combos function as effective bnb and most players just tend to go for the more difficult combos in general in situations where other setups would score guaranteed damage.

I attribute this mostly to these more difficult strings being advertised highly when the game first came out, hence players tend to go for them more. However there are a lot more simple strings to be discussed with Greninja, particularly his low percent strings.

I've recently decided I want to invest a lot more time into the character as a solid secondary (maaaaaaybe main) so I'm going to try to get some more productive discussion going on so we can some more consistent results from the frog!

I haven't really noticed this but I can see your point.

The most common combo I use at early %s is usually N-Air -> F-Smash for a solid 25%.