Grab Releases on Puff - Export.

Veril

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#42
It's probably 20/21, like all aerial grab releases.
...

Not all aerial grab releases yield the same frame advantage.

Sincerely,
Guy who was in charge of the smashlab prior to RocketPsi... which granted is not that important, and rPsi was waaaay better at getting people organized and overall much better for the job. I'm just saying that I spent a lot of time obsessing about frame data and did a lot of testing in frame advance. Kinda sad actually. Oh well, I like math.
 

Veril

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#44
For air releases: Bowser has an extra 10 frames of advantage. Platforms also alter the advantage if the released character lands during the "I'z free" animation. Jiggs has 1 less frame for her air release iirc.

So there's a consistent effect if its Bowser or Jiggs. Then there's the platform effect which depends on the trajectory, which depends on the character being released and the platform height. I feel like I'm forgetting something about DK... "shrug"

You're probably right about it being 20 for Yoshi releasing puff. Yoshi has 6 frames of jumpstart, so for an aerial followup that would bring it down to 14. You've got 4 frames of startup lag on the up-air iirc. If you need to double jump that's another frame...

stupid Yoshi >.<

Bowser CAN up-air Jiggs out of an air release. They'll do that when you get past 50%ish, earlier it'll probably be an aerial side-b. Unless its stale, then they'll do bair or fair. He can also ground release at the edge into a d-tilt. You can DI the ground release though so I'm not sure what he can do to us out of a ground release onstage.
 

#HBC | ZoZo

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#45
Uhm, yeah but Bowser is kinda standard.
DK gets 10 frames bonus if he gets ground released.
Platforms altering the advantage is kinda obvious.

And puff having 1 frame less is interesting.
 

Z'zgashi

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#46
Also worth mentioning is that mashing out of Yoshi's grab fast enough can force a ground release.
Only if we are pummeling. If we dont pummel its always an air release regardless. I only pummel once or twice at the beggining usually as to not risk the loss of free damage. Guaranteed uair > possible loss for an extra 2%. Most Yoshi's also follow this rule.

Only if we grab on the last possible frame of our grab and you mash at 2 button inputs per frame.
 

Z'zgashi

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#54
While this is up, I forgot to add, Jiggs cant rest Yoshi's uair even if he misses as his tail doesnt have a hurtbox.
 

Z'zgashi

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#58
That's all information on frames which we already pretty much know. Jiggs has 30 frames of lag when ground released and 49 frames of lag when air released, that's the extent to which that thread helps this thread. This thread is about who can punish Jiggs when released and what with.

Also, that makes me think, do you want to add in what others have on Puff when she's Ground Released as well? I know Bowser can Jab and Ftilt Jiggs when she's ground released, and Ftilt if fresh could possibly be a reliable kill move on Puff pretty early.

EDIT: Basically, regardless of what you do, Bowser can **** you up when he grabs you, regardless of the release position. Moral of that story? DONT GET GRABBED BY BOWSER!
 
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#59
That's a pretty ****ty superarmor though.
If this invincibility stops me from dying from a GR...
I'd be happy.

And yeah we probably would be killed by a smash attack after.
But if for some reason my opponent messed up the punish after, i'd be happy with knowing i used rest to survive the GR.


Even if it's unreliable, it'd still be good to know.


And yes Zz
I'd like to know ground releases as well.
It'd be good to know.
 

Z'zgashi

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#60
Falco gets a free Jab out of Ground Release, as well as Squirtle, and anyone else with a Frame 2 Jab or attack.
 

teluoborg

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#61
Are you sure ? Shield comes out on frame 1 and (a thing that is wrong with the link I posted) the grab releaser has a 29 frames lag instead of 30.
So Squirtle and ZSS that have a 1 frame Jab should be the only ones with a guaranteed hit out of GR (cept for Bowser lol).
 

Z'zgashi

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#66
Yes. Shield comes out frame 2, and the opponent has 1 less frame of lag when they release you, so any move that comes out frame 1 or 2 is guaranteed out of ground release on Puff.
 

-LzR-

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#67
Yeah... On Puff... What about other characters? I don't think Puffs ground or pummelrelease is anything special.
 

Z'zgashi

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#68
Well, it should work on most everyone aside from characters like Marth/Bowser who have moves with Invincibility frame 1 and DK who for some reason has only 20 frames of lag, which gives him the advantage when he's GR'd. Ness/Lucas have it really tough with the extra 10 frames of lag too.
 

san.

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#69
What're you talking about? You can't do anything to Jigglypuff out of ground release.
 

Z'zgashi

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#70
Jiggs has 30 frames of lag when ground released, and her shield comes out frame 2.

All characters (other than Bowser who has 20 frames) have 29 frames of lag when they release an opponent from their grab.

This means that the opponent releasing has a 1 frame advantage, and nothing Jiggs does comes out until 2 frames after they can do anything, meaning anyone who has a frame 2 attack can punish her.
 

teluoborg

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#74
Meh, I've always read everywhere since 2008 that shield comes out on frame 1 and that PS happens on frames 1-3.

It's not that i don't believe you, it's just that you're the first person I've seen state that.
I'd like to test that grab release>jab for Falco on my own but I won't get near my wii until tomorrow.
 

san.

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#77
Fluttershy, you have no idea what you're talking about lol.

There is no ground release stuff on Jigglypuff outside of Bowser and mindgames.
 

Zigsta

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#79
Yeah, it's frame 1. That's why you can block Squirtle's jab if you just hold shield.

:phone:
 
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#80
Squirtle gets jab, ZSS gets jab. Bowser gets stuff.

Shield comes out frame 1, but the releasee cannot buffer the shield input out of a grab release, while the releaser can buffer an attack. As a result, this is what happens:

Frame 0 - end of grab release animation for both characters; releaser buffers jab; releasee can hold shield, but is unable to buffer
Frame 1 - Jab buffered by releaser begins - for Squirtle, the hitbox comes out on this frame; releasee was holding shield, and input is registered on this frame because it was not buffered - this is frame 0 for the shield
Frame 2 - Releasee is now shielding (frame 1 of the shield); jabs that hit on frame 2-4 will be powershielded; jabs that hit on frame 1 will hit before shield can come up
 
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