Good times to Down B?

[127]

So I think we're agreed that Joker is insane with Arsene (my favorite part is Dair >:D ) but is a bit on the weaker side in kill power without him. Obviously, this will lead to much of Joker's meta revolving around getting Arsene as quick as possible, along with playing well without him (if you find practical true combos there's a BnB thread to post it to). With that, would be good methods of "countering" as that's the quickest way to get him?

This is a bit more interesting than landing other counters as its importance means people are already more aware of it and are already reading Down B and grabbing or wait it out and then attack.

The other way of getting Arsene of course is to take damage (72%) but even landing one counter takes Joker really far.

 

[Firox]

In my experience, down B is best used to cover Joker's landings. On the ground, ppl are already starting to counter him with command grabs and fakeouts, but they rarely expect him to use down B in the air. With that in mind, it's also a good method for interrupting juggles.

 

[Justin Allen Goldschmidt]

Comes out on frame 3, so if a string isn't true against Joker, try a RG every now and then

 

[Deleted member]

I've used it offstage against characters with linear recoveries to practically guarantee getting a counter off by putting myself between the stage and the recovering opponent. It puts you in an awkward position if you miss, and won't work against a lot of the cast, but it gets the job done a good percentage of the time.

 

[edde]

try edge guarding more with joker... he reminded me a bit of bayonetta when he didnt have arsene, with his great aerial mobility and recovery you can go ham offstage

fair > fair
bair
retrating nair (similar to cloud's nair edgeguards)
non spike dair (and spike ofc aswel)
and last but not least, aerial neutral special aimed down (bullets mess some character's recoveries, since they dont expect it, it puts them on an akward spot, you can also later let go off neutral special, follow with another aerial and jump back to stage)

 

[DavemanCozy]

In my experience, down B is best used to cover Joker's landings. On the ground, ppl are already starting to counter him with command grabs and fakeouts, but they rarely expect him to use down B in the air. With that in mind, it's also a good method for interrupting juggles.

This is correct. Reminds me of landing with Ryu's focus attack, except you can hold it and it won't break after one hit. I don't think it should even be used in the ground that often...

It can still be punished with grabs just like any other counter or super armor move, even if you use it in the air, just wait for him to land and grab him but that was to be expected

 

[127]

try edge guarding more with joker... he reminded me a bit of bayonetta when he didnt have arsene, with his great aerial mobility and recovery you can go ham offstage

fair > fair
bair
retrating nair (similar to cloud's nair edgeguards)
non spike dair (and spike ofc aswel)
and last but not least, aerial neutral special aimed down (bullets mess some character's recoveries, since they dont expect it, it puts them on an akward spot, you can also later let go off neutral special, follow with another aerial and jump back to stage)

Will definitely use, thanks! Some friends and I are having a Joker only tournament tomorrow, wish me luck!!

 

[leafgreen386]

Projectiles can be pretty free, depending on distance. Dash -> jump -> downB is a crazy mixup with nair, since if you condition them to not antiair you, you can get free approaches off. The latter is more about getting reads, but you can also use dash jump RG as a means to run into telegraphed attacks (like the aforementioned projectiles), since normally you can't dash -> RG due to the initial dash's inability to cancel into most moves.