Good secondary/ies for Incineroar?

[Dε√ilj∦o]

Hello, I'm a fellow Incineroar main, and I simply realised that despite my all-time main being Bowser, Incineroar is hands down the character I enjoy the most playing in Smash Ultimate.
However, I find some matchups to be just too tedious and near unwinable for Incineroar, the prominent ones being Samus and Dark Samus. Zoners in general are way too frustrating to approach because of Incineroar's low movement speed. Approaching just means you're either eating an unreactable powerful projectile, getting your shield broken, getting grabbed(especially by the Samuses...) or getting your Revenge baited and punished.

What character can be good to put time into to remedy Incineroar's worst matchups?

 

[Whitephoenixace]

Best ones are either fast ones like chrom or sonic as they can close in faster (particularly chrom causw the sword space). You could also try using chars that have reflectors like the like of the whole star fox cast or those form kid icarus.

 

[RandysRage]

I've been subbing Palutena recently and she's been working wonders.

 

[Snipnigth]

I find that Bowser its a good secondary for Incineroar if you wanna keep a similar playstyle. Bowser is much faster on stage able to punish players more constantly, compared to incineroar who is slow like a truck, but zoners will still give you a hard time.

 

[MA_DA_Oh]

Big bump, but I need to know: how about Ganondorf?

 

[Gibaaay]

Big bump, but I need to know: how about Ganondorf?

I would say Ganon probably isn't a great secondary for Incineroar. Pretty much all the matchups Incineroar struggles in Ganondorf struggles in equally (if not more) for the same exact reasons. Of course it's up to you who you want to play, but if your main goal is to win then Incineroar-Ganandorf probably isn't the best matchup spread to have. If you're wanting to play another heavy then Bowser is probably your best bet. Alternatively, if you want someone pretty easy to pick up to cover a decent amount of Incin's bad matchups I'd recommend Mario. You don't need to spend a ton of time learning or practicing him, just learn a few easy combos and your kill options and you should be good to pull him out every once in a while. He has good matchups against a lot of Incineroar's worst matchups.

 

[MA_DA_Oh]

I would say Ganon probably isn't a great secondary for Incineroar. Pretty much all the matchups Incineroar struggles in Ganondorf struggles in equally (if not more) for the same exact reasons. Of course it's up to you who you want to play, but if your main goal is to win then Incineroar-Ganandorf probably isn't the best matchup spread to have. If you're wanting to play another heavy then Bowser is probably your best bet. Alternatively, if you want someone pretty easy to pick up to cover a decent amount of Incin's bad matchups I'd recommend Mario. You don't need to spend a ton of time learning or practicing him, just learn a few easy combos and your kill options and you should be good to pull him out every once in a while. He has good matchups against a lot of Incineroar's worst matchups.

Thanks for the reply. Would you say Captain Falcon is a good pick as an Incineroar secondary then? I used to play him a lot in previous smash games so Im already used to him too.

 

[Gibaaay]

Thanks for the reply. Would you say Captain Falcon is a good pick as an Incineroar secondary then? I used to play him a lot in previous smash games so Im already used to him too.

Yes, actually! Especially since Falcon's buffs. Falcon's rush down playstyle compliments Incineroar's more slow playstyle very well. While there are still some matchups that might be kind of tough with both of these characters the difference in archetype at least gives you more options to pick from in tough matchups and will make you a much more flexible player. With Falcon making a clear place for himself in the meta he would serve you well as a secondary. As a heavy main myself I know it's not too hard to take some time off your character and come back to about the same level you were before, but make sure to practice Falcon sometimes if you do pick him up, as he is a combo character and will reward you greatly for putting in practice time.

 

[MA_DA_Oh]

Yes, actually! Especially since Falcon's buffs. Falcon's rush down playstyle compliments Incineroar's more slow playstyle very well. While there are still some matchups that might be kind of tough with both of these characters the difference in archetype at least gives you more options to pick from in tough matchups and will make you a much more flexible player. With Falcon making a clear place for himself in the meta he would serve you well as a secondary. As a heavy main myself I know it's not too hard to take some time off your character and come back to about the same level you were before, but make sure to practice Falcon sometimes if you do pick him up, as he is a combo character and will reward you greatly for putting in practice time.

Thanks! I'm excited to try it out.

 

[StrangeKitten]

I like Joker a lot, made him my co-main. He has excellent speed and mobility, unlike Incin. And both characters reap huge reward off their frame 3 counters

 

[Wigglerman]

I tend to flip over to Pac-man for match ups I just struggle to do well in with Incineroar. While they're polar opposite play styles that's half the benefit. I can change up my entire game play and throw opponents off quite a bit as Pac isn't usually who people expect a grappler main to switch to. XD

But in general a better side character for Incin is...well...almost every other character on the roster. It's just about finding which fits your style and how far up the tier ladder you feel like going and how drastic a change in play style you want/feel comfortable trying to learn.

 

[StrangeKitten]

I'd say it's generally better to go with a character who is drastically different. All the other super heavies feel similar to Incin in ways, and all are huge targets who have as rough of a disadvantage state as Incin does. If you do want to secondary a character similar to Incin, I recommend Charizard, so that you can also work on a Squirtle and Ivysaur here and there. Pokemon Trainer allows you to carry over your super heavy skills while not facing the disadvantages as much thanks to being Squirtle and Ivysaur at low %.

But really, I think a very different character is the best to help you mix up your playstyle. Incineroar is slow, so picking someone speedy is a good starting point

 

[rigmac97]

I tend to flip over to Pac-man for match ups I just struggle to do well in with Incineroar. While they're polar opposite play styles that's half the benefit. I can change up my entire game play and throw opponents off quite a bit as Pac isn't usually who people expect a grappler main to switch to. XD

But in general a better side character for Incin is...well...almost every other character on the roster. It's just about finding which fits your style and how far up the tier ladder you feel like going and how drastic a change in play style you want/feel comfortable trying to learn.

Well, you should try to fight characters like Incineroar with ranged characters. Incineroar is one of the best grapplers in the game. It's good to know your opponents before trying to best them. If you want to get a better idea of how some of the best grapplers work then you can check out this link.

https://www.gamersdecide.com/articles/smash-ultimate-best-grapplers

 

[StrangeKitten]

Well, you should try to fight characters like Incineroar with ranged characters. Incineroar is one of the best grapplers in the game. It's good to know your opponents before trying to best them. If you want to get a better idea of how some of the best grapplers work then you can check out this link.

https://www.gamersdecide.com/articles/smash-ultimate-best-grapplers

Gotta be honest with you, doing nothing but shilling your articles in every post you make is more annoying than anything and only makes me want to read your articles even less.

 

[Wigglerman]

Well, you should try to fight characters like Incineroar with ranged characters. Incineroar is one of the best grapplers in the game. It's good to know your opponents before trying to best them. If you want to get a better idea of how some of the best grapplers work then you can check out this link.

https://www.gamersdecide.com/articles/smash-ultimate-best-grapplers

I do fight zoners with Incin and it often (At least in online environment) works in my favor. I usually switch to Pac only in match ups where the opponent has really good combo game (Characters like Ness are one of my least matchups for Incin online and I can handle Ness better with Pac-Man who can just say 'no' to Ness' game plan). I don't need an article to tell me this because, without sounding rude, I've been playing fighting games since I was a kid and I've got the general knowledge to play most fighting games at a competent level.

 

[MA_DA_Oh]

I tend to flip over to Pac-man for match ups I just struggle to do well in with Incineroar. While they're polar opposite play styles that's half the benefit. I can change up my entire game play and throw opponents off quite a bit as Pac isn't usually who people expect a grappler main to switch to. XD

But in general a better side character for Incin is...well...almost every other character on the roster. It's just about finding which fits your style and how far up the tier ladder you feel like going and how drastic a change in play style you want/feel comfortable trying to learn.

How about Duck Hunt? I used it a lot in previous smash games, closer to main, so I've been trying it too, would you say it would be a similar "contrast" to a heavy like Pacman does?

I'd say it's generally better to go with a character who is drastically different. All the other super heavies feel similar to Incin in ways, and all are huge targets who have as rough of a disadvantage state as Incin does. If you do want to secondary a character similar to Incin, I recommend Charizard, so that you can also work on a Squirtle and Ivysaur here and there. Pokemon Trainer allows you to carry over your super heavy skills while not facing the disadvantages as much thanks to being Squirtle and Ivysaur at low %.

But really, I think a very different character is the best to help you mix up your playstyle. Incineroar is slow, so picking someone speedy is a good starting point

I like using Trainer but I have a hard time with Charizard for some reason, compared to smash 4 when I used him all the time, maybe its because how I used to play now lends better to other characters

 

[Wigglerman]

How about Duck Hunt? I used it a lot in previous smash games, closer to main, so I've been trying it too, would you say it would be a similar "contrast" to a heavy like Pacman does?

In regards to Duck Hunt, I have no real assessment. I played a lot of DHD in Smash 4 but not all that much in Ultimate. I prefer Pac-Man as my 'zoner' because he also has some exceptional close quarters abilities to 'reset' spacing if an opponent gets in too close. I feel DHD struggles a bit too much if his wall of projectiles fails to keep an opponent at bay. Once they're in it can be a bit difficult to get them back out of your comfort zone. Pac-man also has arguably THE BEST recovery options in the game with power pellet, hydrant stall and trampoline. It's insanely difficult to keep Pac off stage since he can recover high, medium or low and can usually stuff quite a bit of off stage play with his kit.

I don't think DHD is bad but I just don't have enough experience with the character. From what I have played of him I feel like he replies on near perfect plays with his walling and any time I screw up I just get wrecked.

 

[MA_DA_Oh]

In regards to Duck Hunt, I have no real assessment. I played a lot of DHD in Smash 4 but not all that much in Ultimate. I prefer Pac-Man as my 'zoner' because he also has some exceptional close quarters abilities to 'reset' spacing if an opponent gets in too close. I feel DHD struggles a bit too much if his wall of projectiles fails to keep an opponent at bay. Once they're in it can be a bit difficult to get them back out of your comfort zone. Pac-man also has arguably THE BEST recovery options in the game with power pellet, hydrant stall and trampoline. It's insanely difficult to keep Pac off stage since he can recover high, medium or low and can usually stuff quite a bit of off stage play with his kit.

I don't think DHD is bad but I just don't have enough experience with the character. From what I have played of him I feel like he replies on near perfect plays with his walling and any time I screw up I just get wrecked.

Thanks, I'm not sure if I'd use Pacman as a secondary to Incineroar myself, but I am thinking of. Sorry for the late reply, but do you think Squad Strike is a good testing ground for this kind of stuff? I play it with Incineroar + random characters sometimes anyway but for some reason never considered it since Ive been mostly against cpus lately and they arent the same.

 

[Janx_uwu]

I know several people who main Incin and have Bowser as their secondary. I main Bowser and, for a time, Incin was one of my seconaries. So yeah, I think Bowser is a pretty effective one to have.

 

[StrangeKitten]

Bowser runs into similar pitfalls that Incin does, also being big and easy to combo. Not the best secondary, as I think a more different character from Incin is better to pack more variety. But if you're comfortable with super heavies and playing on the back foot, Bowser is a suitable choice.

 

[JoeZegers]

In my opinion, Incineroar is just bad. Slow and bad recovery. I actually switched to the slightly better Pokemon that is Lucario in July 2019 because of this.

Back when I was still using Incineroar, my secondary was Mewtwo. Yeah, it was messed up, but now I have Lucario with Wolf as secondary, which is better.

 

[Wigglerman]

In my opinion, Incineroar is just bad. Slow and bad recovery. I actually switched to the slightly better Pokemon that is Lucario in July 2019 because of this.

Back when I was still using Incineroar, my secondary was Mewtwo. Yeah, it was messed up, but now I have Lucario with Wolf as secondary, which is better.

Really, the only things objectively bad about Incineroar is his speed/air mobility. The dude has actually insane damage, decent reach and his attacks are really deceptive due to the bits of intangibility he gets on the majority of his primary moves. He has great OOS options and, honestly, his recovery isn't SUPER trash but could be better. The character is in a place where he excels at what he does but just has trouble doing it.

As a grappler absolutely should. He's actually balanced how he should be. I play the character a lot and battles can be a little rough against some more mobile enemies but that's to be expected. I just can't say the character is 'bad' when he has a LOT going for him but is held back by conventional grappler tropes. Because once he gets in on a character he can cook them in only a couple exchanges.

 

[JoeZegers]

Really, the only things objectively bad about Incineroar is his speed/air mobility. The dude has actually insane damage, decent reach and his attacks are really deceptive due to the bits of intangibility he gets on the majority of his primary moves. He has great OOS options and, honestly, his recovery isn't SUPER trash but could be better. The character is in a place where he excels at what he does but just has trouble doing it.

As a grappler absolutely should. He's actually balanced how he should be. I play the character a lot and battles can be a little rough against some more mobile enemies but that's to be expected. I just can't say the character is 'bad' when he has a LOT going for him but is held back by conventional grappler tropes. Because once he gets in on a character he can cook them in only a couple exchanges.

But the problem was just bad for me, which is why I use Lucario. I know, he has his own problems, but I have gotten used to that.

 

[StrangeKitten]

But the problem was just bad for me, which is why I use Lucario. I know, he has his own problems, but I have gotten used to that.

Nothing wrong with finding the character to be a bad fit for you. But, you did miss out on the great buffs Incin has gotten. Revenge is now even better, and that's just the first of a whole slew of buffs he got over a few patches throughout late 2019/early 2020. I agree that his slowness holds him back too much, but if you haven't tried him out since his buffs, it might be worth giving it a go

 

[JoeZegers]

Nothing wrong with finding the character to be a bad fit for you. But, you did miss out on the great buffs Incin has gotten. Revenge is now even better, and that's just the first of a whole slew of buffs he got over a few patches throughout late 2019/early 2020. I agree that his slowness holds him back too much, but if you haven't tried him out since his buffs, it might be worth giving it a go

Since I use him as my secondary now (under a buffed Lucario), I realize that Incineroar is even more insane.

 

[MA_DA_Oh]

Since I use him as my secondary now, I realize that Incineroar is even more insane.

Your earlier post was pretty unfair and untrue, which I assume wasnt your intention since you still have Incin as your secondary meaning you understand it has its strenghts:
The character has a lot of strong points (and is also very fun to use, its my "spirit buster" as I did a thread for that) so dont say its "just" bad, as its untrue, though it has its weak points specially since its a grappler as other users pointed out, so do other fighters, including Lucario (which is why that twitter poll showed Lucario was the least used ultimate fighter, tho to be fair I found one in eventhubs whre he was in the late 50s instead iirc). You say you realize he's even more insane now, thanks to his buffs, but isnt that a good reason to give him some extra time? If you train Incin, you may get really good with him (or at least have a lot of fun, cause its sure a fun moveset to use).

All your posts seem to be about advocating for Lucario usage, so I guess you just wanted people to give it a chance, which is fair since you like him but I dont think heres a good place, usually people who enjoy grapplers and heavies like Incin will prefer a different style of fighting than Lucario, either rushdown characters or other heavies, and will complement with either more of the same or something that can cover it like a zoner, from my understanding of reading other poster's insight in the thread in the past, Id say the best place to advocate for our aura friend is his own board actually, since new fans may look there for insight in how to use him.

To make a more on-topic posts, why dont you tell us why you used Mewtwo as a secondary to Incin? Sounds like an interesting combination, both of them, how did you liked their fighting styles reasonating

 

[StrangeKitten]

I know the question wasn't directed at me, but I'll throw in my two cents on Mewtwo: similarities for both fighters include super heavyweight-tier damage per hit, strong combo games, very useful command grabs, the same kill throws at around the same percents, some of the best raw kill power of the cast, pretty big hurtboxes, and pretty bad disadvantage states. Differences include Mewtwo being much lighter, much faster, worse disadvantage than Incin imo but far better recovery, and a very good projectile. I think they make good compliments to each other and can recommend Mewtwo as a secondary for Incineroar.

 

[JoeZegers]

Mewtwo would also be a good secondary under Incineroar. Both are large and have fun movesets.

 

[JoeZegers]

Your earlier post was pretty unfair and untrue, which I assume wasnt your intention since you still have Incin as your secondary meaning you understand it has its strenghts:
The character has a lot of strong points (and is also very fun to use, its my "spirit buster" as I did a thread for that) so dont say its "just" bad, as its untrue, though it has its weak points specially since its a grappler as other users pointed out, so do other fighters, including Lucario (which is why that twitter poll showed Lucario was the least used ultimate fighter, tho to be fair I found one in eventhubs whre he was in the late 50s instead iirc). You say you realize he's even more insane now, thanks to his buffs, but isnt that a good reason to give him some extra time? If you train Incin, you may get really good with him (or at least have a lot of fun, cause its sure a fun moveset to use).

All your posts seem to be about advocating for Lucario usage, so I guess you just wanted people to give it a chance, which is fair since you like him but I dont think heres a good place, usually people who enjoy grapplers and heavies like Incin will prefer a different style of fighting than Lucario, either rushdown characters or other heavies, and will complement with either more of the same or something that can cover it like a zoner, from my understanding of reading other poster's insight in the thread in the past, Id say the best place to advocate for our aura friend is his own board actually, since new fans may look there for insight in how to use him.

To make a more on-topic posts, why dont you tell us why you used Mewtwo as a secondary to Incin? Sounds like an interesting combination, both of them, how did you liked their fighting styles reasonating

I do realize that this thread is talking about Ciney and not Lucario, and I do apologize for that, but Mewtwo and Incineroar are a heavenly couple. Both are huge and have great movesets.
If you use Incineroar and Mewtwo as a secondary under Incineroar, you’ll have a pretty good team, in my opinion. On one hand, you got John Cena in a fur suit beating people up either figuratively, literally, or physically, and on the other hand you have a white Tom who shoots ghost balls. Yes I do realize that this is similar to Lucario’s neutral b but we’re talking about Ciney and Mewtwo here, people. However, Mewtwo is a better secondary than a main in my opinion, so thank god for Incineroar. I guess I’ll use Ciney when I have to fight more powerful characters which is basically impossible with Lu. Thanks, buffs!