Good secondary for Wario?

[LordFreezyPops42]

I've pretty much solo mained Wario since December, and even though I have done reasonably well with him online and a bit offline, I feel as if there will be a time in which I should consider a secondary that can cover the match ups Wario struggles with the hardest. Any suggestions?

 

[Warlock*G]

 

[LordFreezyPops42]

Mind elaborating on choosing Falcon? I am eager to hear why it would be a solid option please.

 

[Warlock*G]

Mind elaborating on choosing Falcon? I am eager to hear why it would be a solid option please.

 

[axelalexzander]

( deleted )

 

[LordFreezyPops42]

I see, I see. I actually have Dedede as a secondary myself. As much as I love using him, I feel the need to branch out and pick a different character for better coverage. I feel like this is a good start though, with your suggestions. Thank you for actually trying to talk about things instead of being vague.

 

[Spinosaurus]

I feel like Luigi is definitely a good one to deal with rushdown characters with ridiculous frame data that I think Wario hates going up against. (Notably Diddy, Mario and Falcon)

 

[Zionaze]

I have the trinity for me.
__

Diddy (top tiers) honestly covers all of the pesky top tier MUs ()
and Falco for those obscure projectile users. ()
But I always start it off with Wario simply because he's such a versatile character

 

[DavemanCozy]

I use Fox as my main, Wario is actually my secondary.

Dunno about MU benefits, I really need more experience in that area with Wario, but I can tell you I prefer Fox over Wario against:


Though I think Wario does fine against Ness, Diddy (now that he's not broken), Luke, Rosa, and Peach himself.

One reason I still like Wario and why I continue to play him is due to his playstyle being more air based. Fox's offstage presence is basically nonexistent in this game, he has few gimping options which are mostly unsafe. I realized that, although Fox is a good character, I was never going to learn how to gimp without picking up a character who offered this. Wario happens to complement that for me, so really the reason why I play him is to learn the other part of the game I'm missing playing as Fox.

And +, I think Wario is also really solid in this game too.

Edit: I just came back from a con this weekend. I gotta say, even though I don't think Fox loses this MU, I prefer the vs mu a lot more than going Fox. Chomp nullifies a lot of Pac's bonus fruit shenanigans. So there's that for me.

 

[Strawhat64]

Back in Brawl, I used to main Lucas till I switched to Wario. Sooo...I am still waiting for Lucas as I plan to make him my secondary again when he comes out.

 

[PokÉmblem]

To the average wario main DDD feels right to use. Good aerials and a heavyweight. I used to main DDD but now I main wario. DDD also doesn't struggle with heavyweights like wario does.

 

[Spinosaurus]

DDD also doesn't struggle with heavyweights like wario does.

D3 isn't a good secondary for Wario and he doesn't struggle against heavyweights. Where is that misconception coming from?

 

[PokÉmblem]

D3 isn't a good secondary for Wario and he doesn't struggle against heavyweights. Where is that misconception coming from?

Most people who use DDD use Wario though. Playstyle wise it's a good transition and most say wario struggles with heavy weights(Idk if it's 100% true but it was spread so much that I considered it true).

 

[Spinosaurus]

Most people who use DDD use Wario though. Playstyle wise it's a good transition and most say wario struggles with heavy weights(Idk if it's 100% true but it was spread so much that I considered it true).

Wario may cover some of D3's MUs but the other way isn't true. The only MU I think Dedede might be better than Wario is Marth? Otherwise eh, I don't think so anyway.

 

[DavemanCozy]

I could edit my old post, but I would change too much stuff in it.

I'm now co-maining both Wario and Fox: ever since the patch and as I've grown more experienced I've been finding I'm just as experienced with both of my characters. Haven't been to many tournaments lately, I've been mainly playing on Anthers but I've been surprising myself with what I can do with Wario every match I pick him. I plan to change my lack of tourney attendance come September with the new monthly in my city that I'm organizing.

With that said, I've been finding Fox to be a great character to complement some of Wario's weakest or awkward match-ups, namely Sheik. It's not a good matchup for Fox in any way, but it does feel a lot more do-able with his better ground mobility. His new rapid jab also activates on frame 3 now, trapping Sheik for sure without letting her jab out of it to at least rack up damage, something that wasn't possible pre-patch with Fox. I feel the mu is a lot better with Fox than with Wario myself.

And I actually feel more comfortable using Wario vs Rosalina now. Ever since the discussion on the Rosa board about the matchup and recently giving it a try with Wario, I've been closely leaning towards the other side that says Wario has a slight advantage.

 

[ZeGlasses!]

I have found that Mario compliments Wario very well. Combo ability, lots of safe moves to throw out in the neutral, and better kill potential. He also controls and feels closer to Wario than say Falcon or Fox, so you won't have trouble switching between them. I'm not saying Fox or Falcon are bad sidemains(in fact, they are really good matchup-wise), but Mario is easier to get into.

 

[PK Gaming]

A character you feel comfortable using against the obnoxious rushdown characters. Most of the staples will do, though avoid using one that struggle against the aforementioned threats.

"Sheik", but that's a boring answer. If I mained Wario, i'd personally use Pit.

 

[Axel311]

If we're talking an "optimal" secondary, definitely pick a rush down or fast type that's top or high tier. are probably your best choices. If you want something less top tier or boring, I think would be good choices as well. You might even be OK with I don't think they suffer too badly against the top tier rushdown types. The only top tier I wouldn't pick is probably because I think like he can struggle at getting zoned out.

Honestly though, a secondary can take a ton of side work to get to the level of your main so you better pick a character you love playing. You're better off picking someone that you do love if it means you'll be more willing to put in the hours - even if their matchups are less optimal than your main.

 

[Spinosaurus]

I disagree regarding Meta Knight. They don't really cover each other's bad MUs very well. This is why I have a Diddy on the side.

Yoshi is a pretty bad secondary for Wario too. I still think Luigi is pretty good though, since he does well against Mario and Diddy.

 

[Axel311]

I disagree regarding Meta Knight. They don't really cover each other's bad MUs very well. This is why I have a Diddy on the side.

Really? I think Meta Knight is one of the best choices because he does well against Sheik, who is probably Wario's worst matchup. And that's probably the most important matchup when considering a Wario secondary. Both can struggle against zoners but those matchups are probably manageable for either character. Probably not worse than 60-40.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Really? I think Meta Knight is one of the best choices because he does well against Sheik, who is probably Wario's worst matchup. And that's probably the most important matchup when considering a Wario secondary. Both can struggle against zoners but those matchups are probably manageable for either character. Probably not worse than 60-40.

Meta Knight doesn't do well against Sheik. Maybe the aggro ones but he gets destroyed by patient/campy Sheiks. Still is better than Wario though, that I'll agree with.

 

[SpicyMango]

I'm personally starting to train with Luigi for my secondary. I used Peach for a bit but it definitely wasn't working out lol. Luigi is perfect imo.

 

[Katzwinkel]

I'm still having trouble picking out a secondary for Wario. For me, I struggle a lot against sword users, namely Marth and Link, as well as the more zoning heavy characters, like Villager. I'm also absolute garbage against Yoshi and Falco. I'm okay against characters like Rosa and Mario who are considered high tier, but I haven't fought a good Sheik yet. I only know she's a hard matchup.

I'd ultimately prefer not to play a fast rush down character. Though I understand Fox is a viable option, the play style doesn't really mesh with my mindset while playing.

So far, it's been a toss-up between Ryu, Diddy, and MGAW. Ryu has good spacing and powerful tools, and I'm familiar with his inputs. Diddy covers matchups like Yoshi and Villager decently, but I'm struggling a lot with banana and kill setups and learning what to do in the neutral. MGAW is more of a wild card. I feel like he functions a lot like Wario and because of his light weight he doesn't get juggled quite as hard. Plus, I think he can do fairly well against Sheik, though I'm sure the work you'd have to put in is astronomical.

Other characters I've used before are Mario and Pit, who are solid, easy to use characters, but I'm still iffy on how they would handle Wario's bad MUs. I also enjoy Robin.

I just want to clarify that I should be putting more time into Wario for learning those harder matchups, but I'm not opposed to putting the time in to learning more characters. I've clocked nearly 400 matches in with Wario, which may not be a lot, but I have no intention of stopping with him. I simply feel that having a secondary will keep things fresh, especially if they're fun to use and I can work them up to an acceptable level.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated! Even if it's tips to help cover those tough matchups.

EDIT: I've gotten some advice from the skype group, and apparently the best choices I have are MetaKnight and Villager. Ryu is also a good choice because of his ability to play footsies and punish.

 

[Dar4]

I'm still having trouble picking out a secondary for Wario. For me, I struggle a lot against sword users, namely Marth and Link, as well as the more zoning heavy characters, like Villager. I'm also absolute garbage against Yoshi and Falco. I'm okay against characters like Rosa and Mario who are considered high tier, but I haven't fought a good Sheik yet. I only know she's a hard matchup.

I'd ultimately prefer not to play a fast rush down character. Though I understand Fox is a viable option, the play style doesn't really mesh with my mindset while playing.

So far, it's been a toss-up between Ryu, Diddy, and MGAW. Ryu has good spacing and powerful tools, and I'm familiar with his inputs. Diddy covers matchups like Yoshi and Villager decently, but I'm struggling a lot with banana and kill setups and learning what to do in the neutral. MGAW is more of a wild card. I feel like he functions a lot like Wario and because of his light weight he doesn't get juggled quite as hard. Plus, I think he can do fairly well against Sheik, though I'm sure the work you'd have to put in is astronomical.

Other characters I've used before are Mario and Pit, who are solid, easy to use characters, but I'm still iffy on how they would handle Wario's bad MUs. I also enjoy Robin.

I just want to clarify that I should be putting more time into Wario for learning those harder matchups, but I'm not opposed to putting the time in to learning more characters. I've clocked nearly 400 matches in with Wario, which may not be a lot, but I have no intention of stopping with him. I simply feel that having a secondary will keep things fresh, especially if they're fun to use and I can work them up to an acceptable level.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated! Even if it's tips to help cover those tough matchups.

EDIT: I've gotten some advice from the skype group, and apparently the best choices I have are MetaKnight and Villager. Ryu is also a good choice because of his ability to play footsies and punish.

Honestly, as you alluded to I think you're definitely best off just working on those matchups. Don't spread yourself too thin...400 matches is nothing. Mastery requires many thousands of matches and maybe up to a year or more of dedicated practice time. Especially with a character as complex as Wario. I've played over 2,400 matches with Wario just on my Wii U (lots more including tournaments and matches on friends consoles) and my Wario definitely still has plenty of room to get better.

I picked up Wario about 6 months ago and I can tell you my improvement has been huge just in the past 3 weeks. And I'm sure 2 months from now I'll be considerably better than I am today. If you start putting time into another character at this point you'll probably be worse off in tourney than if you'd get invested 100% into Wario. I can tell you from personal experience I am still playing a lot of catchup to players in my area who have been playing their characters from release day. I wish I'd mained Wario from day 1.

I don't think Wario has any matchup so terrible as to require a character switch. Maybe Shiek. But the villager, falco, marth, link and yoshi matchups are definitely do-able.

But if you must pick an alt, obviously sheik is the best choice. She beats every character in the game except maybe a few that she goes even with. Rosalina might be your style if you want a zoney type. She does better than wario against shiek...possibly close to even. And she definitely beats some of Wario's tough matchups like Diddy Kong, Sonic and Falcon. Probably doesn't fair better than wario against pikachu though. Mario is pretty much even or beats every character in the game. Really any of the top tiers who goes even or relatively even with sheik would be a good choice.

 

[Katzwinkel]

Honestly, as you alluded to I think you're definitely best off just working on those matchups. Don't spread yourself too thin...400 matches is nothing. Mastery requires many thousands of matches and maybe up to a year or more of dedicated practice time. Especially with a character as complex as Wario. I've played over 2,400 matches with Wario just on my Wii U (lots more including tournaments and matches on friends consoles) and my Wario definitely still has plenty of room to get better.

I picked up Wario about 6 months ago and I can tell you my improvement has been huge just in the past 3 weeks. And I'm sure 2 months from now I'll be considerably better than I am today. If you start putting time into another character at this point you'll probably be worse off in tourney than if you'd get invested 100% into Wario. I can tell you from personal experience I am still playing a lot of catchup to players in my area who have been playing their characters from release day. I wish I'd mained Wario from day 1.

I don't think Wario has any matchup so terrible as to require a character switch. Maybe Shiek. But the villager, falco, marth, link and yoshi matchups are definitely do-able.

But if you must pick an alt, obviously sheik is the best choice. She beats every character in the game except maybe a few that she goes even with. Rosalina might be your style if you want a zoney type. She does better than wario against shiek...possibly close to even. And she definitely beats some of Wario's tough matchups like Diddy Kong, Sonic and Falcon. Probably doesn't fair better than wario against pikachu though. Mario is pretty much even or beats every character in the game. Really any of the top tiers who goes even or relatively even with sheik would be a good choice.

Thanks for the advice. I have no idea how much work I'd have to put in with a character to be considered a master at them, but I know I still have a long, LONG way to go. So putting more hours into Wario is definitely the better option.

As for a secondary, I'll agree that Rosa and Mario are the best choices. Difference being, Rosa takes a lot of work, and Mario doesn't take as much work, but since he's so popular you need to work to make him original.

Honestly, I wanted characters that were unique to play to consider as secondaries. When you're in tournament, the best idea is to go high tier, but I'm not interested in using Sheik whatsoever. I'd definitely rather go Mario, seeing as I have some prior experience with him. But I wanted to explore a little bit, check out different top tiers to see what kind of options there were that fit my interests.

With all that said, I'm definitely going to put a lot more time into Wario. I've joined the Wario skype group and I hope to get some 1v1s in soon. Besides that, I'll keep Mario as a sub, just because I've used him since day one.

PS. If you want to add me on WiiU, just drop me a message. I could use some sweet Wario knowledge.

 

[Action John]

I always feel like a character with a very solid ground game or good footsies can be an excellent pairing for Wario's harder match ups. Right now, I find Ryu and Roy to be very helpful in match ups with characters that can overwhelm your neutral game.

That being said, I definitely feel like Wario can be played all by himself competitively, it just takes a lot of work and dedication.

 

[FUEGO!]

Been thinking the same thing. He's perfectly fine at playing by himself in bracket in my opinion.

 

[ZeGlasses!]

I'm starting to play Pit and I feel he could be a strong secondary for Wario. He has more ground presence and can rush down pretty decently, areas I feel Wario struggles in.

 

[Ridel]

I'm starting to play Pit and I feel he could be a strong secondary for Wario. He has more ground presence and can rush down pretty decently, areas I feel Wario struggles in.

Pit is just a very good secondary for any character imo. He's just doesn't really have any bad MU's and can be picked up pretty quickly since he's pretty straight forward.

 

[SpicyMango]

Hey guys, I was thinking about either Kirby or Cloud for a secondary for my Wario, would you suggest?
(I'm also waiting for Bayonetta to see how she is as well)

 

[Dar4]

Hey guys, I was thinking about either Kirby or Cloud for a secondary for my Wario, would you suggest?
(I'm also waiting for Bayonetta to see how she is as well)

Of those two, definitely cloud. Kirby has the same two big issues Wario does. Prone to getting camped and short range.

 

[Katzwinkel]

So who would be better, Pit or Cloud? And would you go Dark Pit over Pit?

 

[Action John]

So who would be better, Pit or Cloud? And would you go Dark Pit over Pit?

For Dark Pit vs. Pit, Dark Pit's Electroshock Arm (side b) is much better for early kills, so if you're a fan of trying to set that up, thats the reason you pick him. Pit has better arrow control and a much faster side tilt for pokes.

Cloud versus Pit is a preference in playstyle, they actually have a number of similarities, though one could argue Cloud's far reaching normals can be more useful...

 

[C0rvus]

My biggest issue with Wario is definitely his range. Since I'm the type to prefer secondaries that play differently from my main, I think a good secondary would be the sort with good buttons. The primary candidates in my mind are . Cloud in particular sounds like a good fit, because of the way his Limit mechanic can force approaches, much like the Waft. Mewtwo has the benefit of being a capable anti-zoner, and can help Wario in matchups like Villager where he struggles with getting camped.

 

[ZeGlasses!]

I would say Cloud, he has been shown to very capable lately and covers some of Wario's weaknesses, since Cloud has great range and better rushdown capabilities.

 

[G-Guy]

Hey Guys, I am looking for a secondary for my Wario.

Other characters I like to play are . Which one of these cover Wario's bad MUs the best? :-)

 

[Axel311]

Hey Guys, I am looking for a secondary for my Wario.

Other characters I like to play are . Which one of these cover Wario's bad MUs the best? :-)

Hmmm. As someone who isn't all that familiar with those characters I'd off hand say mainly because he easily has the best tools of those 4. He's just a flat out better character than the others, he's top tier and the other 3 are pretty low tier. I'd imagine they don't fair too much better against Wario's bad matchups, who Ryu probably goes even with or beats. He takes a lot of work though I've heard.

 

[giglfoosm]

I personally have as a secondary specifically for the matchup as I struggle dealing with her reach as a wario, where as falcons speed allows him to bait and punish alot of her neutral game options. Although if you get grabbed as falcon you're guna eat a ton of damage or even die so its not a strong counter pick by any means. I just find wario gets camped out easily and captain falcon has the speed to rushdown campy characters so I find it covers alot of warios bad match ups. I also use cuz he's hilarious.

 

[Axel311]

I've changed my mind on this recently. I've picked up and I think she's the best secondary for Wario mainly because she does really well against almost all of Wario's bad matchups and she is the only defensive top tier and I feel she fits Wario's playstyle best of the top tiers.

She's super boring to learn and play but she plays a lot like Wario in neutral I'm finding so she feels natural to pick up. Because she's defensive, like Wario, I feel like I can transfer over to her the same spacing/baity playstyle in neutral that I've puts all those hours into with Wario, whereas if you secondary a rush down type neutral is a lot more different. The biggest learning hurdle I'm having is her recovery, which is super easy to misinput and SD, and prone to getting spiked because it has no hitbox.

The only concern I have is that once I get good enough with Rosa I'm going to end up maining her and moving Wario to secondary status because while it's sad to say, she's just a flat out better character than Wario and I won't be able to justify using him in a lot of matchups once my Rosa gets to the level of my Wario. It's too bad because Wario is way more fun to play.

 

[C0rvus]

Rosa still loses to Cloud and MK. I wouldn't call her the best secondary, especially because of the style overlap. Like you said, you may as well just play her, but it sounds like you don't like her.