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Good doubles characters/teams?

WT!

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As some of you know, I'm going to Apex, and I would like to know about what characters are good for doubles and how well they work together on a very competitive level.

I main Snake and Marth.

My partner mains Snake and Falco.

So obviously that opens up 4 possible combinations:

Snake + Snake
Snake + Marth
Snake + Falco
Marth + Falco

I'd like to know which of those you think is the best. Feel free to debate it, as I'd like to reach some sort of consensus. Your opinions would be greatly appreciated.
 

infiniteV115

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I would say that in the order you listed, it goes from best (top) to worst (bottom). Marth and Falco aren't particularly good teams characters (they're considerably better in singles than they are in doubles), especially Falco. They're not terrible in doubles but against good teams (ie good character teams) you'll have a lot of trouble.

I also think the first two you listed are considerably better than the second two.
 

GreeZ

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How does Snake and Marth work out for you? I was planning on doing that combination with my brother, but I wasn't sure how it would work.
 

WT!

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Well when we practice almost always at least one of us is Snake, and often we do Snake + Marth. What we do is very cooperative and goes mostly like this:

My partner (Snake) plays a safe game in which he mostly camps and puts a lot of pressure on opponents with a lot of mortar use, in addition to grenades, mines, C4, and even the Nikita, using brute force and offense only when he absolutely must. I (Marth) play an incredibly risky off-stage game often going past the point of no recovery to spike an opponent. I do the edge guarding and attacking mid-air opponents. I also back him up when the opponent gets past his wall of explosives.
 

WT!

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I suck at MK and he sucks worse.
 

Osennecho

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It depends on the level of the Snake player. I tried Marth with my friend's Snake (it's garbage -- I carry and get kills even if I'm Puff...) before and it ended quite poorly, but I believe I could see how it could have gone if way better choices were made.

What I mean by this, is that the Snake has to then play the role of support and should be the one often getting the kills (since Marth has kill problems). Snake's utilt is great in teams if there is good synergy. Also, Marth should rack on damage and if he overcommits the snake needs to know it's coming and be able to bail him out. MK can often do this practically on reaction, but Snake is the exact opposite. Meanwhile, the Marth really just has to make sure he's doing his role of adding damage (+spacing like a God) and make sure the Snake isn't getting juggled and can recover.

I think it's a viable team, but there's a fine line between it being successful and failing imo.
In conclusion one of you really should learn meta knight and do Snake-MK b/c MK is stupid in teams and that team has Omni-***. PK's troll post is entirely accurate.
 

Thor

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If picking up MK bothers you both, you could also look at what are commonly called "gimmick teams," that is, teams that rely on interesting properties of various characters to be more powerful than that character in singles by a lot.

You've probably heard of the Anubis strategy - I can't say Snake + Lucario sounds exceptional, but if one of you can play Lucario decently, Snake is fat enough to where he can hang back, but doesn't have to just plank. If your Lucario dies early his utilt can also get those KOs. Likely not as good as MK Lucario, but still seems fairly strong.

There are other strategies but they'd require you both to switch (Ex: Lucario + Ness (or Lucas), Ness/Lucas/Game and Watch + Pikachu/ZSS/Ness/etc. (most others are ineffective at healing or have bad drawbacks - Pikachu (thunder or tjolt) or ZSS (dsmash) or double Ness/Lucas (PK Fire) is probably workable... and for the bucket you really want ZSS, or else Pika can work - Ness/Lucas gives you OHKOs if you can get a full PK flash/PK Freeze in there (then 2 PK fires) but ZSS dsmash is nearly as good and way easier - tjolt is mediocre but you can bucket Thunder and a pair of jolts for early KOs). Also for teams, many generally think Ness > Lucas, which is why I mention Ness first.

Most of this probably sounds like a huge shift and a lot of work, so fortunately double Snake is pretty good. Snake MK is preferable (as was said above) - I can't speak on if Snake Wario > Snake Snake or not but Wario has waft, also lives a long time, and he's much better in the air, so he can jump in to save someone easier than Snake (for whom jumping is usually not a good idea), so if either of you can learn Wario, that might be an improvement (if you both do, double Wario is a strong team - at least one GFs at a tournament had 3 Warios on screen (with an MK thrown in)).
 
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WT!

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We recently started doing Snake and MK as our fallback team (now that I main MK) but our gimmick team is Falco and Ganon. Mostly because his Ganon is actually pretty good and his side b is a perfect laster lock setup. We've perfected that to the point where you'd have to play pretty smart if you wanna survive once you're alone.
 

Thor

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We recently started doing Snake and MK as our fallback team (now that I main MK) but our gimmick team is Falco and Ganon. Mostly because his Ganon is actually pretty good and his side b is a perfect laster lock setup. We've perfected that to the point where you'd have to play pretty smart if you wanna survive once you're alone.
If you have video of this, I'd love to see someone get laser locked by this (and their reaction).

That said, there are much better gimmicks than Falco Ganon - for instance, MK Snake can do the Omni-gay, which is where MK (as P4 only, or as P3/P2 against P1) gets stuck by Snake's C4, grabs them, and uthrows them, while Snake detonates it for an OHKO. I think that's probably just a better gimmick overall than the highly gimpable Falco-Ganondorf. Just my opinion though - if it works for you, then I guess it should be what you do.

(Admittedly, MK-Snake can also infinite someone by getting a grab, mashing pummel so they ground grab release, and the ally getting the regrab, they pummel and grab release on the ground, rinse and repeat, but it seems like Falco Ganon has style points.)
 
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WT!

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We already practice omni-gay.

Will post a video soon of that laser lock.
 

Jake The Preacher

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I'm looking for a high tier/top tier doubles character out of this selection: Wario, Luigi, DK, Falcon, Wolf, Link, Ganondorf, Charizard (Maybe) Fox (Maybe) DDD(Maybe) and Ike. Any suggestions for generally good doubles characters outta that list?
 

infiniteV115

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Wario for sure. He is by far the best doubles character out of that list; he's generally considered the 2nd best doubles character in Brawl (outside MK), arguably first best. He's got almost everything a doubles character needs

- Lives long (he's very heavy)
- Kills early (fart, fsmash, ftilt, uair and bair are all great kill moves)
- Can follow up off teammate's moves very well (uair does 17, fart is big and kills, bair is also good here, fsmash does lots of damage)
- Can set up very well for the opponent to follow up (dthrow is so good for this that double Wario can NAKAT + False often convert a grab into a kill with their double wario team, fthrow also pretty good, fair is a good move for providing a weak hit that deals enough stun for your teammate to follow up)
- Hard to gimp (doesn't need to be saved by teammate) because of good recovery
- Can save teammate because of good recovery
- Extremely mobile; covers the air very well and can cover angles most characters can't, so he can very well complement his teammate's pressure.
- Bite is great for complementing teammate`s pressure; teammate forces opponents to shield, Bite beats shield.

And to give you a different perspective, Wario's 2 main weaknesses in singles are not as relevant in doubles. These being
- His air release weakness; most characters can grab Wario, not throw him, and when he air releases they get a super easy guaranteed followup. DDD can usmash/utilt/bair, Marth can do any aerial or kill with usmash/utilt/tipper fsmash, Snake gets bair/uair/utilt/nair, ZSS can do 17% with fair or go for a bair/uair/nair, etc. In doubles, this is not as relevant because the Wario can just opt to not mash out of the grab, making the air release take longer and thus the Wario's teammate can just come and interrupt the grab.

- His lack of range; despite his great mobility, his lack of disjoints means characters with big and/or long lasting attacks can keep him out. MK's/Marth's sword attacks (particularly fair/uair), DDD's bair and pivot grab, etc. In doubles, this is not as relevant because he's got a teammate to help him break through pressure and/or hit the opponent for knocking Wario away.

I strongly recommend that you watch videos of NAKAT + False, to give you an idea of what Wario can do in doubles. They're one of the only teams to have beaten ADHD + Nairo, who, as a team, had gone almost 2 years without dropping a doubles tournament.
 
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Zargasaurus

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I play a lot of Brawl everyday with a friend of mine, and occasionally some other friends as well. from my nine years of experience, I think R.O.B. and Olimar would ork well togethe, but I have not sen this in competetive match ups, only really in competetive sulation matches, and if you choose not to have team damage on, there is going to be a spam fest lol. sorry for the nonsense that had othing to do with Snake and Marth, no offense intended XD.
 

Zargasaurus

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I think my reply was deleted by miss take, i clicked the back arrow lol. I say that R.O.B.and Olimar are a good team out of my nine years of Brawl. I play a lot of Brawl with friends everyday. sorry if I posted something twice, my reply does not appear.
 
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