Good counterpicks for Mario?

[Captain Phobos]

I know someone who's been picking up Mario, and I need a good counterpick.

 

[Hat N' Clogs]

IMO Sonic and Marth are Mario's two hardest matchups. Both outrange Mario (especially Marth) and both are good at being patient and defensive. Since Mario's biggest weakness is his lacking attack range, I'd say try those two. Corrin also does ok against him. I hope that helps

 

[Captain Phobos]

IMO Sonic and Marth are Mario's two hardest matchups. Both outrange Mario (especially Marth) and both are good at being patient and defensive. Since Mario's biggest weakness is his lacking attack range, I'd say try those two. Corrin also does ok against him. I hope that helps

Thanks ^-^

 

[MERPIS]

Tbh there are no real definitive answers to Mario, most of his losing matchups are just -0.6 or -0.5, this is the case for Marth, Corrin, Mewtwo, even Cloud. Mario as a whole is just too solid to have any nasty MU's like ZSS or Marth does, but Sonic is by far his worst, first off, Mario cannot catch Sonic, no matter how hard he tries, he can't get to him, Sonic also outranges Mario by a long shot, Sonic's bair out-ranges everything Mario can throw at him in the air, Sonic can also troll his landings with a well placed spring on a predicted up smash, Sonic can also escape a lot of Mario's riskier combos with his upb. Now Mario does have some counterplay, Mario can completely screw Sonic over if he gets a hold of him, his fireball stopping spin dash in its tracks and Mario's usmash being really safe, meaning Mario will usually kill before Sonic can, but still it is a bad MU for Mario. According to this:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...tt6QpIaLk6er4KUcpHkYLe5EI/edit#gid=1043201626

It's Mario's worst MU by far and the only one that actually -1's him completely.

 

[Nah]

Mario generally has issues with swordies, minus Robin (who he has a favorable MU against). Using one of those will give you a decent time against him, though like has been said, they're not a true hard counter to him either--he's a top tier so one does not simply just **** on him. But it's better than nothing.

 

[Hat N' Clogs]

Tbh there are no real definitive answers to Mario, most of his losing matchups are just -0.6 or -0.5, this is the case for Marth, Corrin, Mewtwo, even Cloud. Mario as a whole is just too solid to have any nasty MU's like ZSS or Marth does, but Sonic is by far his worst, first off, Mario cannot catch Sonic, no matter how hard he tries, he can't get to him, Sonic also outranges Mario by a long shot, Sonic's bair out-ranges everything Mario can throw at him in the air, Sonic can also troll his landings with a well placed spring on a predicted up smash, Sonic can also escape a lot of Mario's riskier combos with his upb. Now Mario does have some counterplay, Mario can completely screw Sonic over if he gets a hold of him, his fireball stopping spin dash in its tracks and Mario's usmash being really safe, meaning Mario will usually kill before Sonic can, but still it is a bad MU for Mario. According to this:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...tt6QpIaLk6er4KUcpHkYLe5EI/edit#gid=1043201626

It's Mario's worst MU by far and the only one that actually -1's him completely.

Sick MU chart. I love that haha
But yeah, a top Mario main on the Mario discord I'm on (Dark Wizzy) is in agreement that Sonic is definitely Mario's worst MU. I would be inclined to agree, unless the Sonic main is aggressive. Defense Sonic > Offense Sonic
But other than that, yeah, Sonic is Mario's hardest MU haha, with Marth being his 2nd hardest imo

 

[MERPIS]

Sick MU chart. I love that haha
But yeah, a top Mario main on the Mario discord I'm on (Dark Wizzy) is in agreement that Sonic is definitely Mario's worst MU. I would be inclined to agree, unless the Sonic main is aggressive. Defense Sonic > Offense Sonic
But other than that, yeah, Sonic is Mario's hardest MU haha, with Marth being his 2nd hardest imo

Eh I'd have to go with our good old friend Up air the character aka cloud. The only time Mario is at an advantaged position is when Cloud is offstage, and if he recovers low and is precise with his upb, then FLUUD can't do a single thing about it.

 

[Hat N' Clogs]

Eh I'd have to go with our good old friend Up air the character aka cloud. The only time Mario is at an advantaged position is when Cloud is offstage, and if he recovers low and is precise with his upb, then FLUUD can't do a single thing about it.

You do have a good point tho...Cloud's tough as well aside from offstage. I was considering him, but I ended up saying Marth (probably because I've been thinking about Leo's performance lately and the Marth MU's been fresh in my mind ><)

 

[MERPIS]

You do have a good point tho...Cloud's tough as well aside from offstage. I was considering him, but I ended up saying Marth (probably because I've been thinking about Leo's performance lately and the Marth MU's been fresh in my mind ><)

Reason why I picked Cloud over Marth is that, Marth can really struggle to kill Mario, as Mario is constantly in his face, and getting tippers on any reasonably fast character that is up in your face, and is not named Falcon is a real pain in the arse end.

Also not Lucina because Mario just flat out wins against her.

 

[Lookandlearn]

Sonic, Marth, Lucina, Cloud
Or eventually Corrin, Rosaluma, Mewtwo, Luigi or Sheik who do good against Mario, but not as much as Sonic, Marth and Lucine.

Even Bayonetta i would say

 

[MERPIS]

Sonic, Marth, Lucina, Cloud
Or eventually Corrin, Rosaluma, Mewtwo, Luigi or Sheik who do good against Mario, but not as much as Sonic, Marth and Lucine.

Even Bayonetta i would say

Actually...Mario wins against lucina, and Bayonetta, and is even with corrin, and mario is potentially one of sheik's worst MUs especially with his kill power and ability to keep up with her and combo her just as hard as she can do to him

 

[Lookandlearn]

Actually...Mario wins against lucina, and Bayonetta, and is even with corrin, and mario is potentially one of sheik's worst MUs especially with his kill power and ability to keep up with her and combo her just as hard as she can do to him

That's just how i feel it as a Mario main... Dealing with a campy sheik who spamming needle isn't that easy with Mario. It depends of Sheik's playstyle. Even if it's not as worth as it is with Luigi.
And Lucina loses to Mario, but Mario loses to Marth ? it doesn't seem legit man.
Otherwise i agree with Bayo/Corrin. I mean they havent the matchup, but they do the job and have goods options to deal with Mario.

 

[MERPIS]

That's just how i feel it as a Mario main... Dealing with a campy sheik who spamming needle isn't that easy with Mario. It depends of Sheik's playstyle. Even if it's not as worth as it is with Luigi.
And Lucina loses to Mario, but Mario loses to Marth ? it doesn't seem legit man.
Otherwise i agree with Bayo/Corrin. I mean they havent the matchup, but they do the job and have goods options to deal with Mario.

Lucina is much easier for mario to get in on since he doesn't have to fear being screwed at 50% by good spacing and so called tippers. If Mario gets the lead Lucina will stuggle like hell to catch up, she also can't kill mario at any decent percent range either unless she gets a super hard read because like I said before, lack of tippers. You shouldn't be worrying about a campy sheik any more, her camping game was toned down a lot and is a lot worse compared to characters like sonic and bayonetta.

 

[MercuryPenny]

Actually...Mario wins against lucina, and Bayonetta

everything bayo does outranges mario, her counter makes her intangible for 11 frames (compared to the 1-2 frames on others), mario can't chase bayo if she starts circle/air/platform camping (and she gets free damage with bullet arts), even if he catches her she can use her frame 1 air dodge and not take 60%, her only """bad""" stage is fd which mario also kinda sucks on, he can't edgeguard her...likely among other things i'm forgetting

mario has a good punish game (you'll never touch her), okay mobility (doesn't really matter, bayo has side b and better hitboxes) and a down air that can beat witch time (it's incredibly situational and not guaranteed to work)

 

[MERPIS]

everything bayo does outranges mario, her counter makes her intangible for 11 frames (compared to the 1-2 frames on others), mario can't chase bayo if she starts circle/air/platform camping (and she gets free damage with bullet arts), even if he catches her she can use her frame 1 air dodge and not take 60%, her only """bad""" stage is fd which mario also kinda sucks on, he can't edgeguard her...likely among other things i'm forgetting

mario has a good punish game (you'll never touch her), okay mobility (doesn't really matter, bayo has side b and better hitboxes) and a down air that can beat witch time (it's incredibly situational and not guaranteed to work)

mario has a grab, bayonetta hates grabs.

 

[MercuryPenny]

you mean like how sonic, marth, cloud, fox, and rosaluma hate grabs

 

[MERPIS]

you mean like how sonic, marth, cloud, fox, and rosaluma hate grabs

except they don't, comparing bayonetta to any of those is like comparing kirby to marth or DK. Ye kirby CAN gimp and combo them, but gets destroyed otherwise, Bayonetta hates characters that have good grabs because she can't witch time them as often in neutral since all they will be doing is grab.

 

[MercuryPenny]

then you get the percent lead with back air or bullet arts and camp the rest of the match? like witch time is not the only thing bayo has, saying she loses because grabs only whiff on witch time rather than activate it is a narrow-minded look at the matchup and completely overlooks all her other overwhelming advantages

 

[MERPIS]

then you get the percent lead with back air or bullet arts and camp the rest of the match? like witch time is not the only thing bayo has, saying she loses because grabs only whiff on witch time rather than activate it is a narrow-minded look at the matchup and completely overlooks all her other overwhelming advantages

3 quarters of the roster doesnt have the tools to deal with her. The other quarter does. And most of those are even