#GoldenSunday - Isaac for Smash Ultimate (AT & Mii Costume Confirmed!)

FlawedAI

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 26, 2016
Messages
296
Yeah, can't say Incineroar would make me excited. I think part of the reason I don't want him is because, we have already gotten two large fighters with claws :ultridley: and :ultkrool:. These were among my (as well as many others) most wanted additions, not because they were large animalistic characters with claws, but because they were the villains of some great games. Incineroar does not carry nearly the same impact as the other two.

The Smash community likes to place characters in categories. These categories can be by series or by similar traits (sword users, third parties, ect.). One such category are large/heavyweight characters which include: :ultdk:, :ultbowser:, :ultkingdedede:, :ultridley:, :ultkrool:, and Charizard. Considering that Incineroar is taller than Charizard and weighs nearly the same amount (in Pokemon games), it makes me almost certain that if Incineroar gets in he will be the third large/heavyweight newcomer for Ultimate.

By the way, I could see Isaac's size being similar to his Brawl assist trophy which is slightly smaller than adult characters like Link, Captain Falcon, Simon, and Richter.
Yeah, Incineroar is basically the opposite of hype for me. I understand it has its fans, but I'm not among them, and I just don't see what it brings to Smash. It does't feel like a unique enough character, since it just adds to the bunches of fire users already have, and the claw swipes and such don't intrigue me. If it had a move set based entirely around wrestling, maybe, but it still feels redundant, even more so with those reasons you listed. If we were to get any Pokemon (which I doubt we will for the base game, at least), then I'd want it to be a new type, like ghost or dragon, since we haven't seen that yet. Though, I don't really want any, since they all don't feel like Smash characters. I say we just wait until Gen 8 for our next Pokemon.
 

KMDP

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Messages
6,231
I find it funny that you cite that song with Tails as your profile pic. It's an in-joke that you wouldn't understand.
Heh.
Yeah, Incineroar is basically the opposite of hype for me. I understand it has its fans, but I'm not among them, and I just don't see what it brings to Smash. It does't feel like a unique enough character, since it just adds to the bunches of fire users already have, and the claw swipes and such don't intrigue me. If it had a move set based entirely around wrestling, maybe, but it still feels redundant, even more so with those reasons you listed. If we were to get any Pokemon (which I doubt we will for the base game, at least), then I'd want it to be a new type, like ghost or dragon, since we haven't seen that yet. Though, I don't really want any, since they all don't feel like Smash characters. I say we just wait until Gen 8 for our next Pokemon.
I don't think people should put so much stock into type representation when it comes to Pokémon in Smash.
 
Last edited:

pholtos

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 15, 2018
Messages
404
Heh.

I don't think people should put so much stock into type representation when it comes to Pokémon in Smash.
Then how bout gameplay style?
Incineroar's potential movestyle would be wrestling based, grabbling. Which is already somewhat prevalent in many other characters. He would be an exceedingly close ranged fighter most likely. Which again, we have prevalence for.

If I were to pick ANOTHER pokemon to be in smash, I would prefer someone who fits a role that isn't exactly taken up by other pokemon, which is sorta impossible since there's so many pokemon already in the game. And almost all the pokemon in smash are close range types. :ultpichu::ultpikachu::ultlucario::ultjigglypuff: etc. I actually wouldn't mind a primarily long range with a few short range types added in, or another mon with moves like :ultmewtwo: that can influence things like projectiles and opponents.

So essentially, Incineroar would add nothing except grappling type moves, and would just be another close range pokemon. Just what the game needs.
 

FlawedAI

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 26, 2016
Messages
296
Heh.

I don't think people should put so much stock into type representation when it comes to Pokémon in Smash.
It's not just about type representation, it's more about visually how that looks. A LOT of characters use fire, so another one (and a another red one, at that), doesn't add much. Not to mention, the play style, as mentioned by pholtos, doesn't add much, while a ghost type might be more keep-away, or a bug type could be turtle, while most fire types are close-combat, like Incineroar.
 

KMDP

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Messages
6,231
Then how bout gameplay style?
Incineroar's potential movestyle would be wrestling based, grabbling. Which is already somewhat prevalent in many other characters. He would be an exceedingly close ranged fighter most likely. Which again, we have prevalence for.

If I were to pick ANOTHER pokemon to be in smash, I would prefer someone who fits a role that isn't exactly taken up by other pokemon, which is sorta impossible since there's so many pokemon already in the game. And almost all the pokemon in smash are close range types. :ultpichu::ultpikachu::ultlucario::ultjigglypuff: etc. I actually wouldn't mind a primarily long range with a few short range types added in, or another mon with moves like :ultmewtwo: that can influence things like projectiles and opponents.

So essentially, Incineroar would add nothing except grappling type moves, and would just be another close range pokemon. Just what the game needs.
I don't necessarily want Incineroar, I'd much rather have Gardevoir.

But I do see potential in it.

That aside, minor prevalence of command grabs in other fighters doesn't make them grapplers.
 

QcSlayer

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 9, 2018
Messages
243
That's the thing you got completely wrong though. We don't know if Sakurai truly teased the character because we still haven't gotten any other hints and no true evidence yet. You wasn't here when the Brawl/Smash4 disappointment happend, so i'm guessing you wouldn't really understand how it felt when smash 4 . Not having an assist trophy however, was literally everyone's hype meter filled to max in Smash 4.

Imagine you truly believed that we will get him as a playable character, and you had nothing but positivity and the next thing you know, BANG, no Isaac reveal trailer, wouldn't that be a lot worse than having low expectations?

I obviously want Isaac to be in the game no question but i'm not going to have an estimated prediction to what chances he has. There is no numbers in my eyes, it's either he is in or he's out and we are about to see that!
Sakurai said in an interview that he is super carefull whit what he post on social media since people always interpret what he post.

Furthermore it's imposible to make the character stand this way unless you edit the picture.

I assume that if he did post an edited picture super similar to the Camelot angle/GS, only to add a list of assist trophy whitout Isaac, it's because he is sending a ray of hope to our community.

Don't dispair if Isaac is yet to be seen, he is on is way.
 

Kisae

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 14, 2014
Messages
147
NNID
Darkkisae
Sakurai said in an interview that he is super carefull whit what he post on social media since people always interpret what he post.

Furthermore it's imposible to make the character stand this way unless you edit the picture.

I assume that if he did post an edited picture super similar to the Camelot angle/GS, only to add a list of assist trophy whitout Isaac, it's because he is sending a ray of hope to our community.

Don't dispair if Isaac is yet to be seen, he is on is way.
Actually the only thing and i think someone here already said it but, Sakurai said he found that picture cool. But..why THIS particuliar picture with THOSE characters and WHY NOW. Yes i know of the reasons Link= silent protagonist etc, since i was the one who gave the idea back to 60 pages. But i don't know this picture instead of any other is what intrigues me, and make me confident Sakurai did not post THIS image just because he finds it cool and to be a MH reference when it says Golden Sun in any angle. Maybe it leads to nothing at the end, but i just can't imagine Sakurai posting a random picture.

And for that i still believe Isaac is in
 

NessAtc.

Fukou Da...
Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Messages
347
Location
Vancouver Island
3DS FC
4699-7691-7794
NNID
nintenstar98
Switch FC
SW-2476-6260-3913
As for other wrestlers, there's way better characters out there that could fit a grappler style better.

And besides everyone gets unscaled damage off throws anyway so pretty much everyone has a "grappler style" in this game
 
Joined
Jul 31, 2013
Messages
5,035
Pokemon newcomer would be fine if it was one many voted for in the polls, since Ultimate seems to be about the most wanted characters. That is why I would not mind seeing Sceptile. The polls from the Smash Ballot seem to be taken into account and having any newcomer based on the poll results would settle well.
Edit: What I mean is that any newcomer that was high on the ballot poll results would be better received than ones that did not show up at all.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 5, 2018
Messages
292
Man, I feel like I'm losing my mind over here. I wasn't really getting my hopes up for a Direct this week, but the only significant happenings since the August Direct have been Isabelle and the 99.9% legitimate Ken leak. I looooved the E3 and 8.8 info blowouts but it only took us a week or two to digest each of those and since then it feels like I've just been trawling around for any small hit of news or theories or leaks or excitement.

Nintendo pls
 

MeatOfJustice

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
271
Location
Chile
Alright lads, time to go through what we have for and against our boy's chances and put on our tinfoil hats.
https://youtu.be/-jiBeQctWa8

Isaac has been an AT in brawl, and got a nice remix from Sakuraba-sensei to be paired with. He didn't make it in as a fighter but he was acknowledged by Sakurai and his team.

Fast forward Smash 4, his AT is completely gone. You could say that they didn't care about Golden Sun anymore but they kept his remix from brawl and got a new ripped track from Dark Dawn, meaning that the team still acknowledges Golden Sun, even if it's as relevant as a grain of sand in a desert. This situation is very fishy to me.

Isaac had strong and consistent demand throughout the years (he's a first party character!), he can bring a unique gameplay, a good stage, good assist trophies and kickass tracks! They all can fit Smash perfectly which is an important criteria for being in according to lord Sakurai-sama. It could also bring his series back to life, as it would benefit Nintendo to have yet another great RPG on the switch.

And then comes the Smash Ballot. This is Isaac's chance, but clearly the ballot was never meant for SSB4 as all the DLCs were either returning veterans, third party characters or a shameless promotional character.

King K.Rool, a very popular ballot choice got a mii costume but Isaac didn't. The meaning of this is up for interpretation. Again, either Sakurai, doesn't care about Golden Sun, either he has been planned as a playable character for Ultimate at that point or he simply thought that K.Rool as a costume was funny.

Fast forward now, Super Smash Brothers Ultimate/Special. It's presented as the *wink* ultimate smash game having the most content of them all, for the fans first and foremost. Sakurai toldus is that he uses the ballot for the characters this time around. RIDLEY got in. K.ROOL got in.

Isaac's trophy hasn't been shown twice so far, even when focusing on returning assists from the past. He considers Dark Samus and Chrom as HIGHLY requested characters. If they are highly requested, how would that make Isaac look like?

And then we got potentially big calings like Sakurai's raphalos tweet (even if I don't exactly buy it), Golden Sun's trademark has been renewed not once, but TWICE recently.

(Tinfoil hat moment)
I don't know about you guys, but when I saw Richter's reveal the meaning of echo characters became clear to me. When I think of echo characters, I think of Isaac and Felix. They fit the criteria perfectly to me.
Anyways lol

Now you could say that
-Isaac, while popular, was not as popular as K.Rool or Ridley back then
-His series is dead compared to ridley's and K.Rool's (I personally don't think this poses a problem at all)
-Sakurai doesn't care about Golden sun at all.

So there you go. I remain optimistic, but am still prepared for the worst as anything can happen now (that includes our boy being in :^) ), but I say our chances have never been this big. It's OUR time.

(Sorry for any typos, wrote this on my phone)
Edit: if I've missed anything, feel free to point it out!
This is wishful thinking, but what if Isaac didn't get a costume because he got redesigned with an axe? You can't wield those like you can with swords.
-
Heavyweights are always welcome for me. Incineroar is my favorite Gen 7 starter, I love the guy in concept, lore and battles, I'd love the addition but I don't need him. Gen 7 burned me out of the franchise, so maybe Sceptile or a DS era Pokémon newcomer would be more exciting to me.
-
At this point it's either a surprise trailer or nothing for this week.
 
Last edited:

Delta64

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 25, 2014
Messages
373
Kind of was a bummer to not get any news of a smash bros direct today. I’m now predicting they will wait until November for any new directs. Anybody thinking otherwise?
I was actually thinking about a possibility. Super Mario Party released just last Friday. Maybe Nintendo doesn't want to promote Smash so soon after releasing another Switch title? (This is not to say that they will wait weeks but, perhaps give Super Mario Party at least one week to get the initial sales out there.) I know these two are completely different games but, it does make sense why they haven't put Smash in the spotlight recently. Nintendo want to promote more than just Smash after all. In any case, an announcement will arrive eventually. Till then...
patience.jpg
 

THE 6r

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 4, 2015
Messages
629
Location
Fairfax,VA,USA
3DS FC
2981-7049-0538
NNID
6r$¢€£¥™©®
Kind of was a bummer to not get any news of a smash bros direct today. I’m now predicting they will wait until November for any new directs. Anybody thinking otherwise?
Perhaps we see a direct within the next two weeks of some sort. This is Nintendo's big game of 2018. Smash Bros is always a system seller and Ultimate will be no different. They need to keep that hype train going in order to turn a profit this year because they are banking on Smash to sell well. There is going to be an announcement of some sort in the coming weeks. We just got to wait.
 

XenoWarriorX

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 11, 2018
Messages
2,275
I was actually thinking about a possibility. Super Mario Party released just last Friday. Maybe Nintendo doesn't want to promote Smash so soon after releasing another Switch title? (This is not to say that they will wait weeks but, perhaps give Super Mario Party at least one week to get the initial sales out there.) I know these two are completely different games but, it does make sense why they haven't put Smash in the spotlight recently. Nintendo want to promote more than just Smash after all. In any case, an announcement will arrive eventually. Till then...
Imagine a nothing franchise like Mario Party taking up more priority to "promote" than even a hype title like smash.

Technically the only title in which most people can get behind.
 

Luigifan18

Smash Champion
Premium
Joined
Feb 19, 2015
Messages
2,149
Switch FC
SW-5577-0969-0868
Imagine a nothing franchise like Mario Party taking up more priority to "promote" than even a hype title like smash.

Technically the only title in which most people can get behind.
Mario Party is far from a "nothing" franchise, even though it did drive Hudson Soft into the ground.
 

XenoWarriorX

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 11, 2018
Messages
2,275
Mario Party is far from a "nothing" franchise, even though it did drive Hudson Soft into the ground.
It's way past its prime. And the multiple mediocre entries prove that even the developers need a break.


SMP was the promise of a return to form. But it only just barely reached that. And even then, there's still issues up the butt.

In the same vein as Mario Tennis, it was overhyped in what it presented, making it seem far grander than it actually is, and it disappointed many who wanted to see it as a true return to form.

And in comparison to smash...Yes. It IS a nothing franchise. A franchise that's had its great qualities stripped away from the need to innovate.
 
Joined
Sep 5, 2018
Messages
292
I think in a year with more big first party releases, Mario Tennis and Super Mario Party wouldn't have been so hyped and they would have been marketed appropriately as the second-string franchises they are. Don't get me wrong, they're fine games and I've enjoyed multiple past entries from each franchise but I think people are starved for first party Nintendo releases this year so everyone latched their hopes onto those two games specifically.

Releasing BotW and Mario Odyssey and Xenoblade 2 and Mario Kart 8 Deluxe in year 1 was 100% the right move and made many people excited about the Switch, but I do wish they'd had more in the pipeline for some quick follow ups. The delays to Yoshi's Crafted World (already not a massive juggernaut of a series) means that the only big releases this year are Smash and (arguably) Kirby. So all in all, I give the switch a 10/10 year 1 and a 5/10 year 2 that would have been a 3/10 without Smash Bros. And that's coming out late enough in the year that from my perspective as a Switch owner it will have been 14 months since the last non-port game I cared about (Odyssey).
 

TheSpaceKing12

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 25, 2015
Messages
390
Location
The moon
3DS FC
2105-8706-4581
NNID
IsaacForSSB4
I've heard it brought up time in and time again. Why didn't Isaac get a mii costume if he won the ballot? Well consider the following.

Given that his design changed between the GBA games and Dark Dawn. And his dark dawn design probably wouldn't have been satisfactory for fans, probably even louder riots than the K rool costume, for that matter. What I forsee is a Roy Scenario. Melee Roy is a really accurate translation of his GBA design into 3D. However, Smash 4 forgoes this in favor of a mostly original design entirely re-imagining him for the smash setting. What if Isaac is likely to experience the same thing?

It has been nearly 2 decades since the GBA games release. It's a fair assumption that Sakurai and his team may see fit to give Isaac a new design to fit smash's modern aethetic. I know there was the assist trophy and brawl. But, that design is very far removed both from a visual standpoint, and an artistic standpoint, from what we may expect in Smash's modern style. Smashified proved that his teen design could work in smash's modern aesthetic, but even that had changes in various places. Given that it's been so long I can easily see them saying. "Yeah, let's re-imagine this character for a new generation"

As for what the point of inspiration would be? How about a halfway point between teenage Isaac, and adult Isaac. Giving us instead a re-imagined young adult incarnation of the character. Heck if they would be so bold, they could even use young adult versions of the characters as the basis for a golden sun 2.5, showing some of that 30 year gap between the GBA titles and Dark Dawn.

So in conclusion. I don't think he got a mii fighter costume, not because he wasn't a popular pick. He almost certainly was. Rather, because they wouldn't want to use Dark Dawn's design for a costume, as that'd have probably pissed off the fans. And they wouldn't have used his teen design because that wasn't the most recent incarnation of the character. But perhaps most importantly, they had different plans than what we'd have anticipated for the character going forward. And even giving a small taste would have spoiled an ultimate surprise.
 
Joined
Jul 31, 2013
Messages
5,035
I think in a year with more big first party releases, Mario Tennis and Super Mario Party wouldn't have been so hyped and they would have been marketed appropriately as the second-string franchises they are. Don't get me wrong, they're fine games and I've enjoyed multiple past entries from each franchise but I think people are starved for first party Nintendo releases this year so everyone latched their hopes onto those two games specifically.

Releasing BotW and Mario Odyssey and Xenoblade 2 and Mario Kart 8 Deluxe in year 1 was 100% the right move and made many people excited about the Switch, but I do wish they'd had more in the pipeline for some quick follow ups. The delays to Yoshi's Crafted World (already not a massive juggernaut of a series) means that the only big releases this year are Smash and (arguably) Kirby. So all in all, I give the switch a 10/10 year 1 and a 5/10 year 2 that would have been a 3/10 without Smash Bros. And that's coming out late enough in the year that from my perspective as a Switch owner it will have been 14 months since the last non-port game I cared about (Odyssey).
This is why Nintendo needs to build up more of their franchises. Having a handful of big franchises to release on a new console is good, but having more would be even better.

Imagine living in an alternate universe where every Nintendo franchise is a big hitter and is as hype inducing as Smash Brothers? Imagine that alternate universe having:
  • Eternal Darkness as Nintendo's Silent Hill
  • Battalion Wars as Nintendo's Star Wars Battlefront Series (the PS2 era)
  • Advance Wars as Nintendo's dedicated Strategy Series
  • F-Zero being the fastest futuristic racer that puts Sonic's boost mechanics to shame
  • Kid Icarus Uprising being Nintendo's Devil May Cry series with its tight controls and insane combat
  • Golden Sun being the top dog in Traditional RPGs
  • Custom Robo is the combat arena game that Nintendo's online service gets slogged down because too many are playing
  • Star Tropics being the traditional top down Zelda experience
  • Geist as Nintendo's dedicated First Person Shooter series with the possession mechanic brought to its full potential
  • Sin and Punishment being Nintendo's second in command on rail shooter
  • Panel De Pon being Nintendo's addictive Puzzle Series that stresses Nintendo's online service
  • Hotel Dusk, Trace Memory, Shin Onigashima, Famicom Detective club being Nintendo's big hit visual novel games
  • Mach Rider being Nintendo's God Hand with Twisted Metal vehicle combat
Nintendo needs to make important moves to further expand their library to expand their audiences. Feel free to add any Nintendo series that I missed.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 20, 2014
Messages
580
I've heard it brought up time in and time again. Why didn't Isaac get a mii costume if he won the ballot? Well consider the following.

Given that his design changed between the GBA games and Dark Dawn. And his dark dawn design probably wouldn't have been satisfactory for fans, probably even louder riots than the K rool costume, for that matter. What I forsee is a Roy Scenario. Melee Roy is a really accurate translation of his GBA design into 3D. However, Smash 4 forgoes this in favor of a mostly original design entirely re-imagining him for the smash setting. What if Isaac is likely to experience the same thing?

It has been nearly 2 decades since the GBA games release. It's a fair assumption that Sakurai and his team may see fit to give Isaac a new design to fit smash's modern aethetic. I know there was the assist trophy and brawl. But, that design is very far removed both from a visual standpoint, and an artistic standpoint, from what we may expect in Smash's modern style. Smashified proved that his teen design could work in smash's modern aesthetic, but even that had changes in various places. Given that it's been so long I can easily see them saying. "Yeah, let's re-imagine this character for a new generation"

As for what the point of inspiration would be? How about a halfway point between teenage Isaac, and adult Isaac. Giving us instead a re-imagined young adult incarnation of the character. Heck if they would be so bold, they could even use young adult versions of the characters as the basis for a golden sun 2.5, showing some of that 30 year gap between the GBA titles and Dark Dawn.

So in conclusion. I don't think he got a mii fighter costume, not because he wasn't a popular pick. He almost certainly was. Rather, because they wouldn't want to use Dark Dawn's design for a costume, as that'd have probably pissed off the fans. And they wouldn't have used his teen design because that wasn't the most recent incarnation of the character. But perhaps most importantly, they had different plans than what we'd have anticipated for the character going forward. And even giving a small taste would have spoiled an ultimate surprise.
Roy seems like a special case. Sakurai brings up that he debuted in Melee first before his game, so his redesign was made with the idea of keeping him recognizable to that audience. I think this is why he takes more liberties with him and even acknowledges how Smash Roy is different from the game version.

Either way I'd be fine with whatever Sakurai wanted to touch up on Isaac, I think the jacket like the fake leak art would be cool, but I think Sakurai wouldn't stray too far from his original design if he's all about the character being recognizable to the initial audience.
 
Last edited:

Q-Long

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 1, 2018
Messages
1,042
Location
Western Massachusetts
This is why Nintendo needs to build up more of their franchises. Having a handful of big franchises to release on a new console is good, but having more would be even better.

Imagine living in an alternate universe where every Nintendo franchise is a big hitter and is as hype inducing as Smash Brothers? Imagine that alternate universe having:
  • Eternal Darkness as Nintendo's Silent Hill
  • Battalion Wars as Nintendo's Star Wars Battlefront Series (the PS2 era)
  • Advance Wars as Nintendo's dedicated RTS Series
  • F-Zero being the fastest futuristic racer that puts Sonic's boost mechanics to shame
  • Kid Icarus Uprising being Nintendo's Devil May Cry series with its tight controls and insane combat
  • Golden Sun being the top dog in Traditional RPGs
  • Custom Robo is the combat arena game that Nintendo's online service gets slogged down because too many are playing
  • Star Tropics being the traditional top down Zelda experience
  • Geist as Nintendo's dedicated First Person Shooter series with the possession mechanic brought to its full potential
  • Sin and Punishment being Nintendo's second in command on rail shooter
  • Panel De Pon being Nintendo's addictive Puzzle Series that stresses Nintendo's online service
  • Hotel Dusk, Trace Memory, Shin Onigashima, Famicom Detective club being Nintendo's big hit visual novel games
  • Mach Rider being Nintendo's God Hand with Twisted Metal vehicle combat
Nintendo needs to make important moves to further expand their library to expand their audiences. Feel free to add any Nintendo series that I missed.
I would keep aw a regular strat game. I wouldnt turn it into an RTS, I'm not a fan of em and battalion wars you can do for that I guess
 

Delta64

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 25, 2014
Messages
373
It's way past its prime. And the multiple mediocre entries prove that even the developers need a break.


SMP was the promise of a return to form. But it only just barely reached that. And even then, there's still issues up the butt.

In the same vein as Mario Tennis, it was overhyped in what it presented, making it seem far grander than it actually is, and it disappointed many who wanted to see it as a true return to form.

And in comparison to smash...Yes. It IS a nothing franchise. A franchise that's had its great qualities stripped away from the need to innovate.
It isn't about which series is better or more popular. It is about marketing. Didn't you agree that Nintendo tends to fail in advertising lesser franchises? Now that they are you get upset?

Also I only said that it will likely amount to like a week. That is not long at all when you think about it. Considering there are no other 1st party Nintendo switch titles coming out this month, I think it makes sense for them to try and promote what they do have. Then, possibly later this month or early next month (before Pokemon) deliver more Smash news.
Edit: Like I said in my last post I only considered it a possibility.
 
Last edited:

StormC

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
5,127
I've heard it brought up time in and time again. Why didn't Isaac get a mii costume if he won the ballot? Well consider the following.

Given that his design changed between the GBA games and Dark Dawn. And his dark dawn design probably wouldn't have been satisfactory for fans, probably even louder riots than the K rool costume, for that matter. What I forsee is a Roy Scenario. Melee Roy is a really accurate translation of his GBA design into 3D. However, Smash 4 forgoes this in favor of a mostly original design entirely re-imagining him for the smash setting. What if Isaac is likely to experience the same thing?

It has been nearly 2 decades since the GBA games release. It's a fair assumption that Sakurai and his team may see fit to give Isaac a new design to fit smash's modern aethetic. I know there was the assist trophy and brawl. But, that design is very far removed both from a visual standpoint, and an artistic standpoint, from what we may expect in Smash's modern style. Smashified proved that his teen design could work in smash's modern aesthetic, but even that had changes in various places. Given that it's been so long I can easily see them saying. "Yeah, let's re-imagine this character for a new generation"

As for what the point of inspiration would be? How about a halfway point between teenage Isaac, and adult Isaac. Giving us instead a re-imagined young adult incarnation of the character. Heck if they would be so bold, they could even use young adult versions of the characters as the basis for a golden sun 2.5, showing some of that 30 year gap between the GBA titles and Dark Dawn.

So in conclusion. I don't think he got a mii fighter costume, not because he wasn't a popular pick. He almost certainly was. Rather, because they wouldn't want to use Dark Dawn's design for a costume, as that'd have probably pissed off the fans. And they wouldn't have used his teen design because that wasn't the most recent incarnation of the character. But perhaps most importantly, they had different plans than what we'd have anticipated for the character going forward. And even giving a small taste would have spoiled an ultimate surprise.
K. Rool got a Mii Costume based on his Rare design (which hadn't been used since 1999), but his Smash design is (mostly) based on the Paon look.

Isaac could have gotten a costume based on the first game (remember that the K. Rool costume was built from completely original assets, so they could have done the same for Isaac), but he didn't. Why? I couldn't tell you. My suspicion is K. Rool was simply too popular to ignore and Sakurai wanted to address the character in some fashion before the real deal came along.
 

Spinosaurus

Treasure Hunter
Moderator
Joined
Sep 6, 2010
Messages
3,544
NNID
WarioLand
Pokemon newcomer would be fine if it was one many voted for in the polls, since Ultimate seems to be about the most wanted characters. That is why I would not mind seeing Sceptile. The polls from the Smash Ballot seem to be taken into account and having any newcomer based on the poll results would settle well.
Edit: What I mean is that any newcomer that was high on the ballot poll results would be better received than ones that did not show up at all.
Ballot is absolutely not a good indication of popular Pokemon, especially with how small the sample size is. (barely 2 million votes overall? Which is really not a lot relative to how massive the franchise is.)

And you'd effectively have to skip a gen 7 Pokemon over it, which is not a smart idea whatsoever. Sceptile is popular, totally, but characters like Lycanroc, Rowlet and Incineroar are what's hot with the Pokemon audience right now.
 

tveye

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 21, 2018
Messages
208
Location
Missouri
K. Rool got a Mii Costume based on his Rare design (which hadn't been used since 1999), but his Smash design is (mostly) based on the Paon look.
Really? Because I see it the opposite. The Paon design is flatter with no visible scales. The only real similarity I can see is the jewel on his cape. Otherwise he looks almost exactly like his Rare design.
 
Joined
Apr 10, 2015
Messages
1,201
Ballot is absolutely not a good indication of popular Pokemon, especially with how small the sample size is. (barely 2 million votes overall? Which is really not a lot relative to how massive the franchise is.)

And you'd effectively have to skip a gen 7 Pokemon over it, which is not a smart idea whatsoever. Sceptile is popular, totally, but characters like Lycanroc, Rowlet and Incineroar are what's hot with the Pokemon audience right now.
"barely 2 million votes overall? Which is really not a lot relative to how massive the franchise is." Are you aware of how samples actually work? Just to be clear I'm not trying to insult you I'm genuinely asking.
 
Last edited:

XenoWarriorX

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 11, 2018
Messages
2,275
It isn't about which series is better or more popular. It is about marketing. Didn't you agree that Nintendo tends to fail in advertising lesser franchises? Now that they are you get upset?

Also I only said that it will likely amount to like a week. That is not long at all when you think about it. Considering there are no other 1st party Nintendo switch titles coming out this month, I think it makes sense for them to try and promote what they do have. Then, possibly later this month or early next month (before Pokemon) deliver more Smash news.
Edit: Like I said in my last post I only considered it a possibility.
I don't think it had a marketing issue to begin with. Since Mario's name sells regardless.

The quality of the entries were the real issue.

Ballot is absolutely not a good indication of popular Pokemon, especially with how small the sample size is. (barely 2 million votes overall? Which is really not a lot relative to how massive the franchise is.)

And you'd effectively have to skip a gen 7 Pokemon over it, which is not a smart idea whatsoever. Sceptile is popular, totally, but characters like Lycanroc, Rowlet and Incineroar are what's hot with the Pokemon audience right now.
I don't think I've ever heard the term "Incenroar is what's hot with the Pokémon audience right" until Vergeben even suggested the idea and implanted it into our heads to begin with.
 
Last edited:

Spinosaurus

Treasure Hunter
Moderator
Joined
Sep 6, 2010
Messages
3,544
NNID
WarioLand
"barely 2 million votes overall? Which is really not a lot relative to how massive the franchise is." Are you aware of how samples actually work?
I should've also mentioned that the ballot audience is also completely different from Pokemon's, which is what I'm getting at as well.

It's a sample, just not an important one if you wanna pick a Pokemon.

I don't think I've ever heard the term "Incenroar is what's hot with the Pokémon audience right" until Vergeben even suggested the idea and implanted it into our heads to begin with.
Eh, I'm not really here to argue about Incineroar specifically, but of the official poll results we got (which I've only seen for Japan, mind), it gets pretty high.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 31, 2013
Messages
5,035
Ballot is absolutely not a good indication of popular Pokemon, especially with how small the sample size is. (barely 2 million votes overall? Which is really not a lot relative to how massive the franchise is.)
But isn't that what a sample size is? It would also have to factor in how many people bothered to vote in the ballot itself.
Edit: Maybe a good majority of Pokemon fans did not bother to vote in the ballot?

And you'd effectively have to skip a gen 7 Pokemon over it, which is not a smart idea whatsoever. Sceptile is popular, totally, but characters like Lycanroc, Rowlet and Incineroar are what's hot with the Pokemon audience right now.
Generations 3 and 5 got skipped over for a Pokemon rep so I don't see why Gen 7 not getting a character is a big deal.
 
Last edited:

XenoWarriorX

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 11, 2018
Messages
2,275
Yeah, Gen 3 was skipped over. I actually had characters that i wanted.

But since Nintendo has no interest, I wouldn't mind not seeing any gen 7 Pokémon (since it's my second least fav gen anyway.)
 
Joined
Sep 5, 2018
Messages
292
This is why Nintendo needs to build up more of their franchises. Having a handful of big franchises to release on a new console is good, but having more would be even better.

Imagine living in an alternate universe where every Nintendo franchise is a big hitter and is as hype inducing as Smash Brothers? Imagine that alternate universe having:
  • Eternal Darkness as Nintendo's Silent Hill
  • Battalion Wars as Nintendo's Star Wars Battlefront Series (the PS2 era)
  • Advance Wars as Nintendo's dedicated Strategy Series
  • F-Zero being the fastest futuristic racer that puts Sonic's boost mechanics to shame
  • Kid Icarus Uprising being Nintendo's Devil May Cry series with its tight controls and insane combat
  • Golden Sun being the top dog in Traditional RPGs
  • Custom Robo is the combat arena game that Nintendo's online service gets slogged down because too many are playing
  • Star Tropics being the traditional top down Zelda experience
  • Geist as Nintendo's dedicated First Person Shooter series with the possession mechanic brought to its full potential
  • Sin and Punishment being Nintendo's second in command on rail shooter
  • Panel De Pon being Nintendo's addictive Puzzle Series that stresses Nintendo's online service
  • Hotel Dusk, Trace Memory, Shin Onigashima, Famicom Detective club being Nintendo's big hit visual novel games
  • Mach Rider being Nintendo's God Hand with Twisted Metal vehicle combat
Nintendo needs to make important moves to further expand their library to expand their audiences. Feel free to add any Nintendo series that I missed.
Ugh. As I was reading that I could feel my mind drifting away to that universe, and my friends, it was glorious.

It's not like Nintendo doesn't have the money to expand its teams and bring some of these franchises back from the grave. They're sitting on so much hoarded cash right now that they could afford to have a Wii U level flop for two generations in a row and probably not feel it.

Get Aojima off of Zelda and bring back Marvelous: Another Treasure Island.
 
Top