Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[WaddleMatt]

As a cartoony plant, Piranha Plant is inherently easier to complete than Isaac, a humanoid with most assuredly a much more complicated moveset.

Let's say they started work on Piranha Plant and Isaac at the same time, who do you think would be finished first?

Fair enough actually, I hope this is the case.

 

[Bladebreaker]

They spent a lot of time on Piranha Plant's curves, so I'd say Isaac would finish first.

 

[Ninjaed]

https://mobile.twitter.com/NessAtx/status/1064425711530729472

Can someone fill me in on this chart? I have an idea what it is, but I'm still confused on what I'm looking at.

From what I understand, it's about trademark renewal.

任天堂株式会社 = Nintendo Co., Ltd
ザ　サンバレー　ライス　カンパニー, エルエルシー = The Sunvalley Rice Company, LLC

First one is 100% certain Nintendo, 2nd one I had to guess the name because I didn't find any company named like this on the internet. I did find "The Premium Rice Company" though, and as you would expect it deals with rice. This trademark also deals with cereals so it's of no concern to us. As for the Nintendo ones, the relevant trademark classes are as follow (link below... I'm not sure it's the same trademark classes they use though... checking it atm, will edit later):

https://www.oppedahl.com/trademarks/tmclasses.htm

CLASS 9 (Electrical and scientific apparatus) Scientific, nautical, surveying, electric, photographic, cinematographic, optical, weighing, measuring, signaling, checking (supervision), lifesaving and teaching apparatus and instruments; apparatus for recording, transmission or reproduction of sound or images; magnetic data carriers, recording discs; automatic vending machines and mechanisms for coin operated apparatus; cash registers, calculating machines, data processing equipment and computers; fire-extinguishing apparatus.

CLASS 16 (Paper goods and printed matter) Paper, cardboard and goods made from these materials, not included in other classes; printed matter; bookbinding material; photographs; stationery; adhesives for stationery or household purposes; artists' materials; paint brushes; typewriters and office requisites (except furniture); instructional and teaching material (except apparatus); plastic materials for packaging (not included in other classes); playing cards; printers' type; printing blocks.

CLASS 28 (Toys and sporting goods) Games and playthings; gymnastic and sporting articles not included in other classes; decorations for Christmas trees.

In 2001, Nintendo had trademarked for both class 9 and class 28 - softwares and games/toys/goodies.
In 2009 and 2010, Nintendo had trademarked for all 3 classes - softwares, games/toys/goodies and printed material. There may be more as there is an ellipsis (= "...") after 28.
In 2018, Nintendo has only trademarked for class 9 - softwares.

In 2001, the trademark was for "GOLDENSUN".
Every other year, the trademark was for "GOLDEN SUN".
In 2010, the trademark was also for "DARK DAWN" (or the combination GOLDEN SUN/DARK DAWN, not really sure here).

Of note, RYTHM HEAVEN was also renewed with just the class 9. And there you have it. That's the info I can get out of it. If I missed anything, feel free to step in.

---
Edit: So it really should be "G O L D E N S U N" and then a space added between the 2 words in latter trademarks, but this site will remove excess spaces when posting.

Here are the classes I've found for the Japan Patent Office (it's mostly in Japanese, though item types are are in English):
Class 9: https://www.jpo.go.jp/shiryou/kijun/kijun2/files/ruiji_kijun11-2018/all.pdf#page=191
Class 16: https://www.jpo.go.jp/shiryou/kijun/kijun2/files/ruiji_kijun11-2018/all.pdf#page=296
Class 28: https://www.jpo.go.jp/shiryou/kijun/kijun2/files/ruiji_kijun11-2018/all.pdf#page=423

It indeed appears to be the same, only much MUCH more extended on the Japanese site.

 

[NessAtc.]

In 2010, the trademark was also for "D A R K D A W N" (or the combination GOLDEN SUN/DARK DAWN, not really sure here).

Of note, RYTHM HEAVEN was also renewed with just the class 9. And there you have it. That's the info I can get out of it. If I missed anything, feel free to step in.

the trademark is just Golden Sun Dark Dawn

 

[Pinguino21v]

As a side note, the recent videos that are roaming around have shown a lot of potential characters to be Spirits. It's the case for

Spoiler: These characters

Elma, Bandana Waddle Dee, Dixie, Pyra, and even Rayman

That leads me to think that the 5 DLC characters are:

• Really obscure characters. But that won't sell well.
• Not represented franchise. That can be the case for some like Dragon Quest or Minecraft, or even the future FE or Pokémon, but I can't see all 5 being that.
• Being a spirit means nothing and, if we want to go further, we may think that being an AT neither

That brings me some hope.

 

[TempestSurge]

There are a lot of series with no futures and they don't have any playable character, just like Golden Sun.

I can get if Sakurai isn't the biggest fan of the series but I don't get why any of this makes him an opposer of a playable character from the series.

That quote is why I see Sakurai not bothering to add Isaac, not that it makes him opposed to it. I was aware of him saying that quote going into Ultimate anyways. Ballot results were a thing and I wanted to see if it was enough to push Isaac into a roster slot. Since it didn't, I'm going to say Sakurai stands by that quote and probably won't see Isaac worth more than an assist as long as the series remains dormant. Not that it can't be one of the things he changes his mind about or cave to the fan demand but eh.

 

[WaddleMatt]

Being a spirit means nothing and, if we want to go further, we may think that being an AT neither

Probably this one if I'll be honest.

 

[Ninjaed]

Quick question: will DLC characters get Amiibos? If not, then Isaac likely wont' be a DLC character as the trademark would need the class 28 for "toys" (I think that's the class it'd need at least?).

 

[Gioka]

Quick question: will DLC characters get Amiibos? If not, then Isaac likely wont' be a DLC character as the trademark would need the class 28 for "toys" (I think that's the class it'd need at least?).

DLC characters from Smash 4 did and PP will have one, so yes, I think all of the DLC characters will get Amiibos.

 

[tbuster766]

Quick question: will DLC characters get Amiibos? If not, then Isaac likely wont' be a DLC character as the trademark would need the class 28 for "toys" (I think that's the class it'd need at least?).

Piranha plant is also getting an amiibo fairly early too. Funny enough I remember that the Corrin, Cloud, and Bayonetta amiibos were released fairly recently ever since their debut in smash 4 as dlc characters (a year or so). One thing to note is that I heard that amiibos with preexisiting characters in smash may get updated at most, but it would likely take fairly less time compared to say making a new one completely from scratch.

 

[KoopaSaki]

I keep hearing rumors that we might get something revealed at the Tokyo game awards on December 6th. Do you guys think we will see the Square Enix character revealed at that time or do you think we gotta wait for next year for any new dlc information?

 

[GoodGrief741]

I keep hearing rumors that we might get something revealed at the Tokyo game awards on December 6th. Do you guys think we will see the Square Enix character revealed at that time or do you think we gotta wait for next year for any new dlc information?

You mean the Game Awards? That’s what’s happening Dec 6.

 

[SorrowOfAcheron]

I keep hearing rumors that we might get something revealed at the Tokyo game awards on December 6th. Do you guys think we will see the Square Enix character revealed at that time or do you think we gotta wait for next year for any new dlc information?

Seems pretty early for a DLC reveal.
We're supposed to be going until Feb 2020 so if they do regular releases, that'd be like one reveal every 3 months from Feb 2019.
Piranha releases in Feb, right?

Maybe they'll do an actual DLC release alongside him.

That's just my reasoning though; they might not keep it regular at all.

 

[Astroworld]

Alright Adepts. I’m not joking. I’m not being passive. I’m doing something. I’m channeling my rage into something positive, but I can’t do it alone.

I know a lot of us are hurting. Im hurting too. But I’ve spent 8 years wondering if we’ll see the sun again. I’m tired of waiting to see if Nintendo does something. And as ****ing livid as I am about Isaac being ATd... he’s still here. He’s still here. Which means Golden Sun is too. It may be grasping for air and on deaths door, but we need to show Nintendo that this damn franchise still has a chance.

I’ve made this https://mobile.twitter.com/TheSunRisesAga2/with_replies

Please. If you really care about Golden Sun you’ll help me with this. I don’t normally partake in this whole social media thing, but I will get out of my damn comfort zone if it means bringing back one of my favorite games of my childhood. I need help. I don’t want to be alone. It’s taken too damn long to find all of you and I’m not going to give up.

And to those that joined our cause, but may not actually be Golden Sun fans, you don’t have to, in fact, I understand if you don’t want to join this battle. This isn’t yours to fight. But the battle we need to fight isn’t just letting our voices be heard.

Nintendo won’t care if we don’t have the numbers to back it up. So we need people. We need to keep talking. We cannot stop talking. We need to reach out. Talk to others about the world of Weyard. Get them interested in the series, even if they’ve never played a GS game in their lives.

Maybe I’m being delusional. Maybe I’m lashing out. But I’m hurting. But rather than curling up into a ball, I’m doing something, because wallowing in self pitty isn’t going to help anyone. Least of all Golden Sun.

Plus. I’ve enjoyed my time here. This is the first time I’ve actually been able to talk about Golden Sun with people that know the game. I don’t want it to stop. I don’t want to give up. I don’t want to lose all of you.

And if if it turns out it wasn’t meant to be... I’ll live with the fact that I’m in love with a dead franchise. It’ll break my heart, but I’ll move on. But I can’t, in good conscience, give up without trying.

That’s it for now... I... I need to have a lie down.

this is pathetic lmao

 

[SPEN18]

a new FE character that's a sword fighter and it isn't Lyn. It needs to be someone that can actually bring something unique to the table. Lyn is extremely popular and would have a super fast style of sword fighting moveset, but of course she's an AT.

Edelgard seems to be the currently best looking option from what little we've seen... and she'd work great! But her main weapon appears to be an axe, not a sword (though she can use swords as well). An axe wielding mage would add a whole new dynamic to Smash, and is something I can see Sakurai being interested in. Almost guaranteed she would NOT use a sword, killing any chance of it being her. There's no other good options for FE that work either.


Given that literally everything under the sun is a spirit, though, and Hitagi said spirits deconfirm DLC

Lyn can do some interesting things besides her sword fighting, being able to use a bow and also being able to do pseudo-warping stuff (she doesn't literally warp but they could implement moves similar to Fox's side special or Meta Knight's down special). If being an AT doesn't 100% disconfirm Isaac then it shouldn't 100% disconfirm Lyn. But yeah, Lyn is still pretty unlikely RIP.
Even aside from Lyn, though, we can't totally discount an FE swordfighter. Especially with Nintendo is picking the characters, if FE Three Houses has some plot-significant sword wielder that's gonna be marketed a lot then I don't think Sakurai could turn it down just because of the weapon type. We don't know everything about Three Houses so while Edelgard is the most likely candidate, we can't 100% rule out another character. It'd be somewhat similar to saying Melmetal is a lock for the "Gen 8 PKMN rep" just because he's the only one we really know about. Again, if we get an FE rep it'd probably be Edelgard, but we also don't wanna fall into a Chrom/Robin situation where everybody assumes who the rep will be (assuming we get an FE rep at all).

Elma, Bandana Waddle Dee, Dixie, Pyra, and even Rayman

Rayman........crud.
We already knew about Pyra (and maybe Dixie?) but honestly not surprised about any of these besides Rayman. I actually don't view any of these characters as being all that likely at this point anyway (again except for Rayman).

Of course, I don't consider a Spirit a hard disconfirm but with a third party it could look bad.

 

[SorrowOfAcheron]

this is pathetic lmao

Why?

 

[SPEN18]

this is pathetic

Please try to be respectful. You can disagree or think an idea is bad, but expressing it in a one-line post that sounds like an insult isn't gonna help.

 

[Silo777]

this is pathetic lmao

I know you’re most likely just here to fish a reaction from us, but I’m going to respond anyway. I’d actually argue that keeping your head held up high and putting your energy into something productive instead of being miserable is the exact opposite of pathetic.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Please try to be respectful. You can disagree or think an idea is bad, but expressing it in a one-line post that sounds like an insult isn't gonna help.

You should look at his previous posts.

 

[Luigifan18]

You should look at his previous posts.

I'd say it's terse, but not toxic... (do we have a shrug emoticon?)

 

[Deleted member]

Quick question: will DLC characters get Amiibos? If not, then Isaac likely wont' be a DLC character as the trademark would need the class 28 for "toys" (I think that's the class it'd need at least?).

DLC Characters WILL get amiibos. They'll just take a while to get, of course, but I don't see why they wouldn't.

 

[Ninjaed]

DLC Characters WILL get amiibos. They'll just take a while to get, of course, but I don't see why they wouldn't.

Then like I said, I shudder for Isaac's chances to be a DLC. Gotta keep up the momentum to force Nintendo to listen to us, or else we'll be forgotten again!

 

[TheSpaceKing12]

I haven't been posting as much as usual the last few days mostly on account of being really down in the dumps. I don't know. Golden Sunday felt like a huge high point for me then afterwards I felt like I just crashed and burned out. No idea why.

 

[Gioka]

I haven't been posting as much as usual the last few days mostly on account of being really down in the dumps. I don't know. Golden Sunday felt like a huge high point for me then afterwards I felt like I just crashed and burned out. No idea why.

It's ok to feel down as long as we collectively keep pushing forward! We will make our voices heard one way or the other

 

[FlawedAI]

I haven't been posting as much as usual the last few days mostly on account of being really down in the dumps. I don't know. Golden Sunday felt like a huge high point for me then afterwards I felt like I just crashed and burned out. No idea why.

Yeah, I felt majorly burned out after the Direct, rejoined just in time for Golden Sunday, and I've kinda been drifting on and off since.

 

[tbuster766]

this is pathetic lmao

That's an old post. Get on track

 

[Silo777]

I believe the most likely scenario out of the “Isaac in DLC possibilities” is that a Golden Sun remake/new game was green lit and is going to be revealed in 2019/early 2020, but wasn’t decided on until Ultimate was way into development and Isaac’s AT was already implemented. As such, they decided to leave things be and just let Isaac be DLC to promote his game. Hence the Rathalos tweet happened to maybe signal it was happening just not now, and the trademark too of course.

Honestly, if something Golden Sun is coming next year, it seems like a blatant oversight not to include Isaac in DLC. They get to advertise their new upcoming game and literally get tons of money from doing so, and not get any crap from it because Isaac is super popular? Everybody wins.

It seems counter productive to think Nintendo could go “Yeah, this seems like a slam dunk business decision in every single way as well as making the fans super happy, but looks like we can’t do it because of a decision made back in 2015.” When put into words, it doesn’t make much sense.

 

[TheSpaceKing12]

this is pathetic lmao

No more pathetic than barging into a thread you have no history in, digging through weeks of comments, replying to a guy who was clearly hurting and trying to make a positive difference, and attempting to start a flame war as the result.

They say don't feed the trolls. But this is a hilariously bad attempt at trolling. If it even counts as one. Up your game.

 

[NessAtc.]

Then like I said, I shudder for Isaac's chances to be a DLC. Gotta keep up the momentum to force Nintendo to listen to us, or else we'll be forgotten again!

I don't think it explicitly hurts it, since you wouldn't market an Isaac amiibo as Golden Sun amiibo, you'd market it as a Smash Bros amiibo.

 

[Undella2]

For FE reps, personally, I would cut Roy and Chrom and replace them with Lyndis so that FE still gets a GBA rep.

FE would then be left with Marth, Lucina (Clone), Lyndis, Ike, Robin, and Corrin.

Anyway...

this is pathetic lmao

Judging by your profile pic, you seem to be a Banjo-Kazooie supporter.

Now, because both of us presumably had some of the characters they wanted the most not make it into the game, don't you think it would be better to work with us to get fan-favorite dead franchises and characters back on their feet instead of mocking an old post made by a respected member of Isaac's support thread?

 

[Ninjaed]

I don't think it explicitly hurts it, since you wouldn't market an Isaac amiibo as Golden Sun amiibo, you'd market it as a Smash Bros amiibo.

That's actually a good point! The trademark wouldn't actually be related to Golden Sun. Thanks for bringing my hope back to me!

 

[tbuster766]

That's actually a good point! The trademark wouldn't actually be related to Golden Sun. Thanks for bringing my hope back to me!

Do you remember what the trademark for RARE that was filed by Nintendo was for? I remember many thought that it meant K Rool would be in smash wii u, but he ended up only as a costume of sorts. Then comes smash ultimate and King K Rool becomes a fighter. I really think that there may be a chance that Isaac could be in the works hypothetically speaking if the trademark is filed in the same vein, where it doesn't mean he wasn't meant to be a fighter at base. Rather it could point to him being worked on later, which I think SonicLink125 made a good point about.

 

[SPEN18]

I haven't been posting as much as usual the last few days mostly on account of being really down in the dumps. I don't know. Golden Sunday felt like a huge high point for me then afterwards I felt like I just crashed and burned out. No idea why.

Well if it makes you feel any better a lot of people in here are probably hurting to various degrees after coming so close for the base roster. We had a lot of good things going for us and then the rug got kinda pulled out from under us.

Fortunately, we at least have the trademark renewal and a few crazy theories to help us keep the hype train on its tracks. Even if it may not be zooming ahead at full speed as we'd like, we gotta at least keep the engine roaring loud and clear so Ninty can hear us.

 

[tbuster766]

Well if it makes you feel any better a lot of people in here are probably hurting to various degrees after coming so close for the base roster. We had a lot of good things going for us and then the rug got kinda pulled out from under us.

Fortunately, we at least have the trademark renewal and a few crazy theories to help us keep the hype train on its tracks. Even if it may not be zooming ahead at full speed as we'd like, we gotta at least keep the engine roaring loud and clear so Ninty can hear us.

Yeah. If it's one thing King K Rool fans did was campaigning for new RARE related stuff when it came to King K Rool. Sure they may have stopped from posting actively about King K Rool making it in smash, but they at least did their parts to fill in that gap. I think as long as we stick with keeping Golden Sun relevant there is always a chance.

 

[MeatOfJustice]

Personally I'd choose Hector over Corrin. The problem about the Three Houses guys is that Edelgard also uses swords and they might pick that due to being easier to implement (which would be such a waste) and the last 2 FE characters are avatars like Byleth, whose weapon preferences are unkown.

 

[tbuster766]

Personally I'd choose Hector over Corrin. The problem about the Three Houses guys is that Edelgard also uses swords and they might pick that due to being easier to implement (which would be such a waste) and the last 2 FE characters are avatars like Byleth, whose weapon preferences are unkown.

Either Hector or Ephraim would be cool for me.

 

[Amtoj]

I don't know if spoilers are frowned upon in these threads, so I'll only mention that another character was revealed with two different roles in the game. Assist Trophies also being fighters probably isn't such a far-fetched idea anymore. However, the two versions of a character probably can't look the same due to gameplay reasons. Both would be around the same size, have player markers, and stick around for extended periods of time.

Spoiler: The character I'm referring to is featured in this video

We might see Isaac as an adult in a second wave of DLC if support remains strong. An alternative would be what he may have looked like between the first two games and Dark Dawn. I can't say that I see him coming in this first wave. Whatever the case, the campaign needs to keep at it.

 

[SorrowOfAcheron]

wrong thread, oops

 

[Silo777]

Nah I still say being “hurt” over an obscure unknown video game character not making it into another video game is way more pathetic

But hey, keep deluding yourselves into thinking a new Golden Sun is on the way. Keep pretending Isaac is iconic. Keep doubling down and denying the fact that this franchise is forgotten and dead. It’s more entertaining to watch

You’re literally just here to make fun of us. Not sure why you feel the need, we did nothing to you. You don’t have to support Isaac or even like him but to go out of your way to attack the people supporting him is just immature.

 

[SPEN18]

Personally I'd choose Hector over Corrin. The problem about the Three Houses guys is that Edelgard also uses swords and they might pick that due to being easier to implement (which would be such a waste) and the last 2 FE characters are avatars like Byleth, whose weapon preferences are unkown.

I don't know why a sword would be easier to implement than an axe. But yeah, as I said earlier a TH rep could be a sword user not named Edelgard.

Either Hector or Ephraim would be cool for me.

I love them both as well. But it would be weird for me to see them before Lyn. For me, at least, it would be almost like getting Matthew instead of Isaac (although not quite to that level). Lyn's the one Western fans fell in love with first.