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Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

tbuster766

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Yeah probably that person was trying to see if it could be Isaac. IIRC someone else in that thread asked if they wielded two swords, which obviously would point to Lloyd Irving. I don't think Hitagi responded to the double swords comment from what I could find, though, hence why I didn't include it in the screenies posted above.
Well that makes stuff interesting to say at the very least. At the same time, I hear there will also be a Tales event occurring around the timeframe when smash ultimate is released so who knows. Either way, I would welcome Llyod as a new edition if that were the case, but grasp on any sliver of hope for that sword character being Isaac.
 

SPEN18

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Well that makes stuff interesting to say at the very least. At the same time, I hear there will also be a Tales event occurring around the timeframe when smash ultimate is released so who knows. Either way, I would welcome Llyod as a new edition if that were the case, but grasp on any sliver of hope for that sword character being Isaac.
To be fair, Hitagi didn't respond to a lot of posts. So him not responding to a question doesn't mean much.

Also, Hitagi did specify that the sword-wielder was Nintendo-owned, so if the commenter was indeed referencing Lloyd then they weren't reading everything Hitagi said. Lloyd is a Namco character.
 

tbuster766

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To be fair, Hitagi didn't respond to a lot of posts. So him not responding to a question doesn't mean much.

Also, Hitagi did specify that the sword-wielder was Nintendo-owned, so if the commenter was indeed referencing Lloyd then they weren't reading everything Hitagi said. Lloyd is a Namco character.
I'm not fully putting all stocks into what Hitagi is saying at the same time, but I really do hope he is true all things considered so long as said Nintendo character isn't another FE character lol.
 

SvartWolf

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regarding the misterious rumored swordsman.. honetsly after the whole Grinch leak fiasco, I think that is safe to assume that someone on the "leaker" scene and "insider" scene would recognize Isaac.

Plus, while I Think that ATs can become fighters in teh future, im sure that won't happen on this wave DLC. they have said perfectly clear that this roundof DLC have been already decided before all this AT's reveals.. and make 0 sense to have had an AT that they already beforehand knew they would turn into a fighter.

Another point, I don't think that NINTENDO would choose Isaac, (unless a future golden sun, but honestly looks unlikely) and i don't think that this DLC round will center around pleasing the hardcore smash fanbase with popular cult characters.

That being said.. what does I know? maybe the new swordsman is actual a brand new golden sun character from a brand new golden sun game and we don't know jack about it :V (although i seriously would doubt it XD)
 

Sentinel07

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I'm not fully putting all stocks into what Hitagi is saying at the same time, but I really do hope he is true all things considered so long as said Nintendo character isn't another FE character lol.
I agree. I love Fire Emblem and it's my No.1 favorite gaming franchise ever.....but it's seriously overrepresented right now. :)

There was no need for all 3 of Awakening's protagonists to be playable characters.
 
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Gioka

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regarding the misterious rumored swordsman.. honetsly after the whole Grinch leak fiasco, I think that is safe to assume that someone on the "leaker" scene and "insider" scene would recognize Isaac.
UNLESS... It is older Isaac. Assuming it is a GS character it could be older Isaac and that is why they can't recognize him but still think the design is cool. Or it is Felix, but that would be a weird move, very Sakurai-y but not very Nintendo
 

SvartWolf

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UNLESS... It is older Isaac. Assuming it is a GS character it could be older Isaac and that is why they can't recognize him but still think the design is cool. Or it is Felix, but that would be a weird move, very Sakurai-y but not very Nintendo
honestly older Isaac makes 0 sense, he isn't the iconic isaac. it would be like... having normal luigi as an assist trophy and having Dr.Luigi as the actual fighter. Felix makes slightly more sense.. but it would be extremely weird if they already had a venus adept moveset ready and wouldn't pulled a Simon/Richter situation (Aesthetic echo)
 

NessAtc.

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Yeah probably that person was trying to see if it could be Isaac. IIRC someone else in that thread asked if they wielded two swords, which obviously would point to Lloyd Irving. I don't think Hitagi responded to the double swords comment from what I could find, though, hence why I didn't include it in the screenies posted above.

Edit: to be clear, the person only asked if the character wielded "more than one" sword, not specifically two. Still almost surely was referencing Lloyd. Same person asked if Hitagi could tell us the most prominent color of the character's design. Still seems like Hitagi didn't respond to it.
It can't be Lloyd anyway, since Lloyd is Namco, not Nintendo.

I'm not putting stock into Hitagi, either, she's not exactly been the most reliable
 
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Gioka

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honestly older Isaac makes 0 sense, he isn't the iconic isaac. it would be like... having normal luigi as an assist trophy and having Dr.Luigi as the actual fighter. Felix makes slightly more sense.. but it would be extremely weird if they already had a venus adept moveset ready and wouldn't pulled a Simon/Richter situation (Aesthetic echo)
I agree of course But! If they are using it to promote a new game I wouldn't be surprised. Regarding Felix, if they didn't have time to develop them on time for base roster the echo thing died, a moveset wouldn't be ready for DLC (planned maybe but not developed) and they already said no echoes for DLC
 

NessAtc.

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I agree of course But! If they are using it to promote a new game I wouldn't be surprised. Regarding Felix, if they didn't have time to develop them on time for base roster the echo thing died, a moveset wouldn't be ready for DLC (planned maybe but not developed) and they already said no echoes for DLC
To clarify they said echoes wouldn't be the main DLC lineup. Echoes of DLC characters is still possible, as is free echo fighters.
 

Gioka

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To clarify they said echoes wouldn't be the main DLC lineup. Echoes of DLC characters is still possible, as is free echo fighters.
I suppose free echoes is a possibility ~ I'd love to see Isaac and Felix together. To be honest I don't know what other Nintendo swordsman could be the one being referred if it isn't GS or Fire Emblem
 

SPEN18

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honestly older Isaac makes 0 sense, he isn't the iconic isaac.
I agree it would be weird to have Adult Isaac, but they could have the younger Isaac as an alt costume (again would be weird given the different proportions but not impossible). Adult Isaac could also make sense if GS4 is happening and it continues from DD. I agree Adult Isaac is unlikely, though.

It can't be Lloyd anyway, since Lloyd is Namco, not Nintendo.
I said that in a later post. But really I was never trying to imply that it actually could be Lloyd. I was trying to demonstrate how other non-Isaac fans were trying to "beat around the bush" so to speak in order to see if Hitagi would inadvertently reveal who the character was, presumably just like the guy who asked if it was a Robin-esque swordsman (which could point to a GS character).

I suppose free echoes is a possibility ~ I'd love to see Isaac and Felix together. To be honest I don't know what other Nintendo swordsman could be the one being referred if it isn't GS or Fire Emblem
People have suggested Elma (come to think of it, she could also be the one referenced by the "multiple swords" comment), but she isn't really known for being a swordfighter and I find the chances of a Xenoblade X character to be low at this point. It was base roster or bust for Elma imo. Elma would probably also be recognizable.
I've seen a couple people suggest a Town character, but that's also farfetched as Town would be really new and if they're not gonna save an ARMS rep for DLC, I highly doubt they'd save a spot for an experimental title like Town. Also not sure if any Town characters will actually be swordfighters.
If it was Fire Emblem, I doubt it'd be a sword user. Edelgard is the front runner for an FE rep right now, but even if it was someone else I think they'll try to pick someone with a unique weapon. It is definitely possible though and perhaps the most likely if Hitagi's info is legit.
So yeah, not really a lot of options for "cool-looking Nintendo-owned sword user that your average leaker couldn't recognize"
 

ZelDan

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If Kirby Star Allies and ARMS can add free characters, then I don't see why Smash couldn't make a few free echo characters TBH.
 

Sabrewulf238

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Not that I'm putting any stock in what this leaker guy is saying but what if he doesn't recognise the character because they're the new protagonist of a new Golden Sun game? (I mean you could argue that they're the protagonist of another new game but only Xenoblade or Fire Emblem would probably get a playable protagonist from a new game. A completely brand new upcoming series likely wouldn't get a character)

It's probably another Fire Emblem character though. Edelgard is a sword wielder isn't she?

I was thinking earlier, how would you feel if they pulled a final fantasy with the next Golden Sun game? That is to say if they made a Golden Sun set in a brand new world but keeping certain aspects like psynergy, adepts, djinn and summons.
 
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Saer2k

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I was thinking earlier, how would you feel if they pulled a final fantasy with the next Golden Sun game? That is to say if they made a Golden Sun set in a brand new world but keeping certain aspects like psynergy, adepts, djinn and summons.
I feel if they went with that approached, they would have to wrap up the story of Dark Dawn in order to proceed.
You just can't make an another story without having the original resolved first. Otherwise I welcome it, I'm thinking they could also do
different duology or trilogy with these games like on the GBA (or the originally planned trilogy with Dark Dawn).
 

Ninjaed

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You would think they would learn after what happened last time they made remakes for a game at the end of a console's lifetime.
Agreed, releasing it on the 3DS would be a terrible idea at that point. Everyone's eyes are on the Switch. That aside... love your new avatar! That Dee and Isaac together are pretty cute :shiro:
Imagine if he also thought, "Hmm? Those hands vs the Master Hand?...."

If Isaac (or a GS rep) is in the works, I hope that his side B is Move/Lift/Pound where you can choose which one to use depending on the direction of the joystick you make. Kind of like Marth's side B: Dancing Blade how you can have different slashes depending on if you tilt the joystick up, forward or down.
I had also been thinking about how to include the djinns in Isaac's kit. An idea was:
- Neutral B a la Shulk's Monado to choose the element.
- After choosing, the djinni floats around you, ready to be used with Neutral B
- All djinns from an element behave the same, all elements have a different effect
- Hitting with a djinn "unleashes it"! Ready to summon? (missing doesn't do a thing)
- After 3 djinns are unleashed, summoning time! The summon is always the same...
- ...but each unleashed djinni "modifies" it a bit: Venus for more knockback, Mars for more damage, Jupiter for faster cast time/bigger hitbox, Mercury for... heal or hitbox lasting longer? Or both.

I think it'd be easy enough to understand (choose, use... limit break-like kinda thing) yet encompassing enough of the djinn system to represent it. All Isaac movesets I've seen never featured the djinns in any way despite the potential for something unique that no other fighter can do.
I feel if they went with that approached, they would have to wrap up the story of Dark Dawn in order to proceed.
You just can't make an another story without having the original resolved first. Otherwise I welcome it, I'm thinking they could also do
different duology or trilogy with these games like on the GBA (or the originally planned trilogy with Dark Dawn).
Agreed that they'd have to bring closure to that arc first. That said... is there a need yet to do so? I recall some "dark world" or other beyond the ocean at the edges of the world. Couldn't Weyard be a "floating continent" or something? Kind of like what happened to the Earth in Sonic Unleashed? There is also the story of how the Alchemy got sealed in the first place. If they think they should pull a Final Fantasy then I'd be fine with it, but I think there's enough material without having to do so.
 

Sentinel07

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User was warned for this post; double posting(Please edit your messages instead)
I was thinking earlier, how would you feel if they pulled a final fantasy with the next Golden Sun game? That is to say if they made a Golden Sun set in a brand new world but keeping certain aspects like psynergy, adepts, djinn and summons.
I wouldn't be against it. If anything, it would probably be an ideal way to bring something new to the table while at the same time not having to worry about alienating new players.

I would still want them to resolve DD's cliffhanger at some point, though I think both options are viable.

I feel if they went with that approached, they would have to wrap up the story of Dark Dawn in order to proceed.
You just can't make an another story without having the original resolved first. Otherwise I welcome it, I'm thinking they could also do
different duology or trilogy with these games like on the GBA (or the originally planned trilogy with Dark Dawn).
Dark Dawn was planned to be the start of a trilogy? Didn't know that.

All I had heard was that is was "the beginning of the main series" or something like that....
 

Bladebreaker

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Care to elaborate on how it looks that way? We've only had one cycle of Smash DLC before, and that was all chosen by Sakurai (minus Corrin and Arguably Bayo). There's more likely than not overlap with who Nintendo picks and who's already an assist trophy, especially with Waluigi existing.
I just expect the worst and hope for the best. As it stands, an assist trophy means, as far as it seems to Sakurai, to be representation enough and disqualifies characters. Or so it seems. While Nintendo choosing the DLC characters does leave room for hope, remember that Sakurai is a part of the decision process (he was approached with a list to choose from). If Isaac was on the list from Nintendo, Sakurai could have struck him from the list because "well, he's an assist trophy, right?"
 

osby

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That's new to me but it is primarily axe right?
Yep. Though I'm not sure why everyone is dead-sure she's a lock. There are two other students of Byleth and they can just choose the teacher, unlikely as it is.
 

WaddleMatt

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Yep. Though I'm not sure why everyone is dead-sure she's a lock. There are two other students of Byleth and they can just choose the teacher, unlikely as it is.
I am not really feeling a FE character anyway, yea Nintendo is choosing the DLC but Sakurai might decide not to pick another FE character due to backlash last time plus he was reluctant to add Corrin iirc.
 

osby

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I am not really feeling a FE character anyway, yea Nintendo is choosing the DLC but Sakurai might decide not to pick another FE character due to backlash last time plus he was reluctant to add Corrin iirc.
Eh, I somehow doubt Sakurai cares too much about the backslash, but yeah, he outright said Fire Emblem had too many characters himself.
 

TempestSurge

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I just expect the worst and hope for the best. As it stands, an assist trophy means, as far as it seems to Sakurai, to be representation enough and disqualifies characters. Or so it seems. While Nintendo choosing the DLC characters does leave room for hope, remember that Sakurai is a part of the decision process (he was approached with a list to choose from). If Isaac was on the list from Nintendo, Sakurai could have struck him from the list because "well, he's an assist trophy, right?"
Nintendo: "Oh."
Sakurai: "Yeah..."

But if even Nintendo is advocating for Isaac's playability by putting him on the list in addition to the fan demand constantly requesting Isaac and him of course having tons of options for Sakurai to pull a moveset from, having an assist trophy be this unstoppable barrier seems silly in the long run. The big difference with Isaac compared to some other assists is that there is no playable rep from his series on the roster at all. It's this immense struggle to even get the main character of this series a single roster slot. Hoo boy!
 

SvartWolf

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Regarding the assist trophy stigma... i don't think that people are understanding it... it isn't supposed to be a stigma, it isn't supposed to be a negative thing, thats why i say that i can believe that ATs can eventurally become fighters on the future if said future include stuff like unplanned DLC second (or third) wave.
(although i wouldve loved isaac to stop being Bigby's wizard apprentice)

When the finally planned the roster, they took teh ballot into consideration, choose and predesigned all the characters they wanted, and started development, even if not 100% clear they likely had an idea who was going to be DLC, they probbaly had some ideas like "big 3d party" or "new game rep" and then they finally had 100% decided before at least the last direct. So there wasnt a problem with Isaac AT cause they knew that Isaac wasn't on the list.

And the most important, Isaac isnt a nonplayable character BECAUSE he is an assist trophy, Isaac is an assist trophy BECAUSE he isn't playable.
Sakurai really wanted to give something to a lot of the characters fans, he put spirits so fans for obscure or cult characters like Alexandra Roivas could actually kinda imagine that they were playing against her... or as her, and give all the popular characters that didn't managed to make the cut the assist trophy treatment, so even if they weren't on the roster they would still feel, kinda present.

Thats why I really think that if they WANT to add more "smash fanbase popular characters" to the roster in future dlc, they won't be detained by "oh... but it is an assist trophy" but as so far the current DLC already have been decided and they been very explicit that they aren't looking for fan suggestions on that one.
 

WaddleMatt

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And the most important, Isaac isnt a nonplayable character BECAUSE he is an assist trophy, Isaac is an assist trophy BECAUSE he isn't playable.
Sakurai really wanted to give something to a lot of the characters fans, he put spirits so fans for obscure or cult characters like Alexandra Roivas could actually kinda imagine that they were playing against her... or as her, and give all the popular characters that didn't managed to make the cut the assist trophy treatment, so even if they weren't on the roster they would still feel, kinda present.
This is actually the greatest paragraph I have ever seen here. I 100% agree with this.
 

KoopaSaki

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I think Matthew might be coming if we get a golden sun 4 announced at e3 next year though it would make more sense to get a golden sun remake first to welcome new players into the game. I just gotta hope next direct doesn’t reveal another Mario sports game as the could mean Camelot isn’t developing a new golden sun title....
 

WaddleMatt

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I think Matthew might be coming if we get a golden sun 4 announced at e3 next year though it would make more sense to get a golden sun remake first to welcome new players into the game. I just gotta hope next direct doesn’t reveal another Mario sports game as the could mean Camelot isn’t developing a new golden sun title....
We must keep our fingers crossed!
 

TempestSurge

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I think Matthew might be coming if we get a golden sun 4 announced at e3 next year though it would make more sense to get a golden sun remake first to welcome new players into the game. I just gotta hope next direct doesn’t reveal another Mario sports game as the could mean Camelot isn’t developing a new golden sun title....
Best strategy would be to release the remakes with a teaser to Golden Sun 4 towards the end. That would help give some new Switch fans more incentive to want to buy the remakes and catch up before the big Switch release hits (instead of just seeing it as, 'Those old games where that one guy's from'). Let's Players would obvs cash in on the views as well, more publicity and hype for Golden Sun's 4 release.
 

Pinguino21v

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Hey guys, I updated the mock-up of the website. I'll work on it again later, but if someone wants to fill a few parts, go for it, that will be less work for me.

Remember: it's a mock-up, and the goal is to translate it into a real website later on the line; but that will come in a second part.
 

SPEN18

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I feel if they went with that approached, they would have to wrap up the story of Dark Dawn in order to proceed.
You just can't make an another story without having the original resolved first. Otherwise I welcome it, I'm thinking they could also do
different duology or trilogy with these games like on the GBA (or the originally planned trilogy with Dark Dawn).
Yeah it makes more sense to me for them to continue with the world and characters they already have. It's pretty clear that the Takahashi brothers had way more planned beyond Dark Dawn and I imagine that lore is still tucked away in their heads. Obviously it's gonna have to change a bit with the years between releases, but if they do it right I think it could work.

-------

Another interesting thing is that Mother 3 came out over ten years after Earthbound and still referenced plenty of characters and lore from EB (though the main story was only tangentially connected in many places). They also had the Mother 1+2 compilation 3 years before Mother 3, so if they were really serious about reviving Golden Sun they could do the same thing on Switch, given that Nintendo plans to keep the Switch alive for quite a while. This lines up with what a lot of other people have suggested where they remake the first two games before the main event comes along afterward. However, this does leave Dark Dawn hanging a bit, and if they were to have a remake I doubt they'd do DD without TBS and TLA. Lol I guess they could do GS1+2+3, but that's pretty farfetched (although it would be awesome). So maybe it's most likely that they just cut to the chase and make Golden Sun 4, but idk. Also, I feel like they wouldn't retcon DD. I know a lot of people have suggested this and would like it, but I feel like the Takahashi brothers consider DD to be part of their lore and they obviously had more planned for the current continuity. Feel free to disagree with any of this.

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Sakurai cares too much about the backslash
"Backslash!" - Shulk
Sorry to pick on your typo, but that's where my brain went lol.

he outright said Fire Emblem had too many characters himself
IIRC he just said he was worried about there being too many, which isn't quite outright saying that FE has too many characters. But yeah, he did acknowledge it.

he was approached with a list to choose from
I don't know where this idea of Sakurai choosing from a list came from, but Sakurai's tweet doesn't really say that there was anything like that.
 

Organization XIII

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I don't know where this idea of Sakurai choosing from a list came from, but Sakurai's tweet doesn't really say that there was anything like that.
Well, the tweet said the characters were picked by Nintendo but he had final say so from that it's very reasonable to deduce that Sakurai was given more than 5 names and he picked the ones he best thought should join.
 

SPEN18

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Well, the tweet said the characters were picked by Nintendo but he had final say so from that it's very reasonable to deduce that Sakurai was given more than 5 names and he picked the ones he best thought should join.
I see what you're saying and yeah, there may very well have been a couple characters that Sakurai rejected. But it's equally possible that Nintendo gave him 5 reasonably feasible choices and Sakurai couldn't really say anything. We can't be sure that there was a list that he selected from.

"Super Smash Bros. Ultimate's DLC line-up is now complete. This time the selection was made entirely by Nintendo. I decide if we can create a fighter based on their selection, then come up with the plan." - Sakurai

He says the "selection was made entirely by Nintendo," and "I decide if we can create a fighter based on their selection." This seems to imply that Nintendo has most of the power, but Sakurai can tell them if there's some reason he can't create a particular character (due to dev time, moveset potential, etc.). It doesn't necessarily matter if he wants to create a particular character.

But list or no, it seems that Sakurai's autonomy is pretty limited. If he can come up with a reasonable moveset for the character and make them in a reasonable amount of time, then he has no reason to reject that character. So I imagine the list of characters he could reject is pretty small.
 

osby

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I see what you're saying and yeah, there may very well have been a couple characters that Sakurai rejected. But it's equally possible that Nintendo gave him 5 reasonably feasible choices and Sakurai couldn't really say anything. We can't be sure that there was a list that he selected from.

"Super Smash Bros. Ultimate's DLC line-up is now complete. This time the selection was made entirely by Nintendo. I decide if we can create a fighter based on their selection, then come up with the plan." - Sakurai

He says the "selection was made entirely by Nintendo," and "I decide if we can create a fighter based on their selection." This seems to imply that Nintendo has most of the power, but Sakurai can tell them if there's some reason he can't create a particular character (due to dev time, moveset potential, etc.). It doesn't necessarily matter if he wants to create a particular character.

But list or no, it seems that Sakurai's autonomy is pretty limited. If he can come up with a reasonable moveset for the character and make them in a reasonable amount of time, then he has no reason to reject that character. So I imagine the list of characters he could reject is pretty small.
He can just say "nah, I can't do this" for a character. It's not like he has to prove he can't come up with something. Plus, Sakurai doesn't even work in Nintendo and is pretty respected. I can't see a scenario where they force him to add a character.
 

SPEN18

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He can just say "nah, I can't do this" for a character. It's not like he has to prove he can't come up with something. Plus, Sakurai doesn't even work in Nintendo and is pretty respected. I can't see a scenario where they force him to add a character.
Okay, I do think if Sakurai said that he truly couldn't create a character then Nintendo would trust him. But I don't think Sakurai would just reject their decision if he didn't have a good reason to do so.

Of course, if Nintendo could just counter with "but you made a moveset for a literal plant!"
 
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